Is the ES too cheap

[serbarry]

11 hours ago, rayaans said:

Linas...

When are you going to learn that no one wants to read through pages of your drivel and couldn't care less what you think.

You're the only person who comes on this forum to write essays on slagging off Lexus vehicles and making comparisons without actually owning or driving them.

Your opinions are of your own, and my opinions are my own, hence why I am making it clear that your opinions are rubbish, absolute hogwash and a load of complete and utter nonsense the majority of the time with no real basis to them apart from copy and pasting car reviews.

I think it's genuinely time you give up this forum and go find yourself a BMW, join the BMW forums, at which point you may take comfort in the fact the people on there might be more interested in the appendage measuring contest you seem to engage in.

I completely disagree with you as I do enjoy Lina's comments. As I said in the discussion about the LBX I really still don't understand why people here can't have different opinions without getting offended and inviting that person to leave the Loc because nobody wants to read his comments. Well I am interested in Lina's comments because enrich the forum and make topics interesting. What is the purpose of the Loc? Pleasing and congratulating each other for the wonderful cars we own? And after? In the discussion about the LBX another member disagreed with me when I said that I saw ladies struggling to park their SUV and that if they are unable to park them, they should not buy them. The other member said that this happens with any car and not only SUV. I disagree, we have different opinions, no problem. If Lina's said that my GS is rubbish I would ask him why and I would like to know why he thinks so. I would not be offended because it's only his opinion but I would be very curious to know the arguments which support his opinions. And if his arguments are solid and I understand what he means and therefore why he thinks that my car is rubbish, I would tell him that I still love my car because it's perfect for my needs, it's a huge improvement compared to my previous Prius and yes I understand your point, but for me it's not rubbish, it's actually amazing. When I had the Prius, nobody liked it, everyone told me that it was ugly, slow, without any pleasure of driving, etc. I never cared about their opinions nor I was offended because they were looking for something in a car that didn't matter to me. One told me that the Mini he owned was a much better looking car than my Prius: faster, more enjoyable to drive, with a better handling and trendy. I replied that without offence all this was rubbish for me: I didn't need a faster car, I didn't care (at that time) about joy to drive, I didn't care about better handling as most of the time on my itineraries the speed limit was 50 km/h and especially I didn't need people to admire my car because it was trendy and actually when everyone considered my Prius ugly, for me was nice, not beautiful but nice. And unlike the Mini, my Prius was extremely reliable and this is what matters to me above all the aspects. I asked him if he could travel from Cork to Dublin (270 Kms) in the Mini with 5 people, 2 huge suitcases, 5 trolleys (hand luggage) and 2 rucksacks in the boot, because I had already done it with the Prius. I asked him if he could carry a 2 seater sofa bed in the Mini because I had already done it with my Prius. I asked him if he could carry 6 bags of 40 litres each of compost for gardening in the boot of the Mini because I had already done it with my Prius. No? You can't do all these things? Well for me your Mini is useless! This is to say that everyone has different needs and priorities for a car and when Lina's says that your ES is a rebadged Toyota, you should not care, because for you it is wonderful and suits your needs. But the fact that you find your ES wonderful doesn't mean that it's wonderful for everyone. Lina's finds the ES a rebadged Toyota but why you care about his opinions? Is he your dear friend? Your relative? Someone whose opinion is important to you? You can't expect everyone to find the ES wonderful like you do and I don't think that you should ask Lina's to leave this forum for what he said about the ES. I give you another example: each time I talk to my wife about cars she tells me that I wasted my money buying such a useless and unpractical car like the GS: with a tiny boot that I can't fit anything and we always need her Hyundai when we drive to Dublin and fly; with an exaggerated huge engine that I won't need because in my itineraries the speed limit is mostly 50km/h; with a huge fuel consumption compared to the Prius and to her Hyundai; too long and wide that I can't find a parking space; too expensive to maintain for servicing and motor tax; too expensive to fix: I have spent 2,100 euros in the last 4 months for rear shock absorbers, exhaust system and AFS sensor and with the sensor I literally threw away money by going to the dealer. Well my wife is right in every single point raised: they are all objectively negative aspects of my GS. But I love my car. I love looking at it. I love driving it. And there was no other car I desired more when I was looking to replace the Prius. The following 4 nights after buying it I could not manage to sleep much because I was too excited 😊. And I am sorry that my wife doesn't like it because it's my wife and her opinion counts for me. It's not just someone in the Loc giving a bad opinion as Lina's did for your ES.

 

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, serbarry said:

I completely disagree with you as I do enjoy Lina's comments. As I said in the discussion about the LBX I really still don't understand why people here can't have different opinions without getting offended and inviting that person to leave the Loc because nobody wants to read his comments. Well I am interested in Lina's comments because enrich the forum and make topics interesting. What is the purpose of the Loc? Pleasing and congratulating each other for the wonderful cars we own? And after? In the discussion about the LBX another member disagreed with me when I said that I saw ladies struggling to park their SUV and that if they are unable to park them, they should not buy them. The other member said that this happens with any car and not only SUV. I disagree, we have different opinions, no problem. If Lina's said that my GS is rubbish I would ask him why and I would like to know why he thinks so. I would not be offended because it's only his opinion but I would be very curious to know the arguments which support his opinions. And if his arguments are solid and I understand what he means and therefore why he thinks that my car is rubbish, I would tell him that I still love my car because it's perfect for my needs, it's a huge improvement compared to my previous Prius and yes I understand your point, but for me it's not rubbish, it's actually amazing. When I had the Prius, nobody liked it, everyone told me that it was ugly, slow, without any pleasure of driving, etc. I never cared about their opinions nor I was offended because they were looking for something in a car that didn't matter to me. One told me that the Mini he owned was a much better looking car than my Prius: faster, more enjoyable to drive, with a better handling and trendy. I replied that without offence all this was rubbish for me: I didn't need a faster car, I didn't care (at that time) about joy to drive, I didn't care about better handling as most of the time on my itineraries the speed limit was 50 km/h and especially I didn't need people to admire my car because it was trendy and actually when everyone considered my Prius ugly, for me was nice, not beautiful but nice. And unlike the Mini, my Prius was extremely reliable and this is what matters to me above all the aspects. I asked him if he could travel from Cork to Dublin (270 Kms) in the Mini with 5 people, 2 huge suitcases, 5 trolleys (hand luggage) and 2 rucksacks in the boot, because I had already done it with the Prius. I asked him if he could carry a 2 seater sofa bed in the Mini because I had already done it with my Prius. I asked him if he could carry 6 bags of 40 litres each of compost for gardening in the boot of the Mini because I had already done it with my Prius. No? You can't do all these things? Well for me your Mini is useless! This is to say that everyone has different needs and priorities for a car and when Lina's says that your ES is a rebadged Toyota, you should not care, because for you it is wonderful and suits your needs. But the fact that you find your ES wonderful doesn't mean that it's wonderful for everyone. Lina's finds the ES a rebadged Toyota but why you care about his opinions? Is he your dear friend? Your relative? Someone whose opinion is important to you? You can't expect everyone to find the ES wonderful like you do and I don't think that you should ask Lina's to leave this forum for what he said about the ES. I give you another example: each time I talk to my wife about cars she tells me that I wasted my money buying such a useless and unpractical car like the GS: with a tiny boot that I can't fit anything and we always need her Hyundai when we drive to Dublin and fly; with an exaggerated huge engine that I won't need because in my itineraries the speed limit is mostly 50km/h; with a huge fuel consumption compared to the Prius and to her Hyundai; too long and wide that I can't find a parking space; too expensive to maintain for servicing and motor tax; too expensive to fix: I have spent 2,100 euros in the last 4 months for rear shock absorbers, exhaust system and AFS sensor and with the sensor I literally threw away money by going to the dealer. Well my wife is right in every single point raised: they are all objectively negative aspects of my GS. But I love my car. I love looking at it. I love driving it. And there was no other car I desired more when I was looking to replace the Prius. The following 4 nights after buying it I could not manage to sleep much because I was too excited 😊. And I am sorry that my wife doesn't like it because it's my wife and her opinion counts for me. It's not just someone in the Loc giving a bad opinion as Lina's did for your ES.

 

 

I do agree with you, a forum is a place for different views and opinions and if A poster doesn’t like my ES? so what. I do think it’s the constant refusing to listen that is the problem, I recall a poster considering buying a IS300h and asking about expected mpg, Linas jumped straight in and said 34mpg despite never owning one. I had done over 30000 miles in my old IS300h averaging around 50mpg so posted that, several other IS owners posted, all from the mid 40’s upwards, would he admit he might be wrong? No chance, page after page, it’s driving style it’s this it’s that, despite never owning one he was right. 

[LenT]

48 minutes ago, Derant said:

I recall a poster considering buying a IS300h and asking about expected mpg, Linas jumped straight in and said 34mpg despite never owning one. I had done over 30000 miles in my old IS300h averaging around 50mpg…

For goodness sakes, Folks, are we not entering the realm of Geekdom here?

I don’t think Linus will object if I suggest that - based on his many comments made here - his driving style might be most kindly described as “enthusiastic”!  An anticipated mileage of 34mpg might even be optimistic.

But does it really matter?

I have no idea what my average mpg is - and frankly don’t care.  It is what it is and I drive the way that pleases me.   In any case, I do so few miles that consumption is pretty irrelevant.

Now I do appreciate that such stats may be more important to  others here, but to get into a tizzy just because someone claims different stats to one’s own may really not be the best use of your time - or this website.

Indeed, I’ve refrained from saying so ….but I don’t even care if your Lexus is better than mine.  There….I’ve said it!

This is not only the first Lexus I’ve ever owned, it’s the first I’ve ever sat in and the first I’d ever driven.  And it suits me just fine!

And if anyone thinks their Lexus is actually a better Lexus, that’s fine too.  

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, LenT said:

For goodness sakes, Folks, are we not entering the realm of Geekdom here?

I don’t think Linus will object if I suggest that - based on his many comments made here - his driving style might be most kindly described as “enthusiastic”!  An anticipated mileage of 34mpg might even be optimistic.

But does it really matter?

I have no idea what my average mpg is - and frankly don’t care.  It is what it is and I drive the way that pleases me.   In any case, I do so few miles that consumption is pretty irrelevant.

Now I do appreciate that such stats may be more important to  others here, but to get into a tizzy just because someone claims different stats to one’s own may really not be the best use of your time - or this website.

Indeed, I’ve refrained from saying so ….but I don’t even care if your Lexus is better than mine.  There….I’ve said it!

This is not only the first Lexus I’ve ever owned, it’s the first I’ve ever sat in and the first I’d ever driven.  And it suits me just fine!

And if anyone thinks their Lexus is actually a better Lexus, that’s fine too.  

The point I was making was that someone asked a specific question, what mpg could they expect? What should I have said, I don’t know and don’t care! Linas jumped straight in with 34 despite never owning that car. What do you expect actual owners to do when they have actual experience? MPG might not be important to you but someone asked a question about it. Actual owners mpg is a fact, The figure Linas gave was an opinion 

[Juicedrinker]

On 8/7/2023 at 9:31 PM, Steven C said:

I'm baffled as to why there are not more ES's on the road. It must be one of Lexus's best kept secret. You seldom see them promote it other than maybe FB. The main problem in my area is there are no local dealers. For me it's either Reading or Milton Keynes both of which are nowhere near Oxford. The one I wanted came from Cheltenham. MK will be the chosen service option but in this area I never see a Lexus ES and very few SUV's. Having had Merc's for years this is my first venture with a Lexus and I am very pleased with it so far. Bargain price for a lot of car.

Hello.... I live in Oxford also and from someone who has had Lexus cars for over 8 years and serviced / repaired only by Lexus may I suggest the following -

1. You never ever go to Jemca Reading for any work (I have very good reasons to state this) which has been mentioned on other areas of the forum

2. Apart from the one huge mistake of going to Reading I have only ever dealt with Lexus Swindon and they are absolutely SUPERB

They have always tried to make the experience the best dealer service you will have.  I have had probably 30+ cars in my life both personal and many business ones across most brands and averaged 45,000+ per annum for over 25 years.  Lexus Swindon are the best I've ever dealt with they also operate the Lexus parts direct website that a lot of people across the UK use and you will se mentioned on this forum as their pricing for genuine Lexus parts is very competitive.  The only one issue that i have is that their service department is closed at weekends but apart from that nothing else.  They have always offered a loan car, lift to and from town centre whilst car being worked on or if I sit and wait an endless supply of drinks, biscuits etc. 

[GMB]

This might set off a tizzy. Is the ES too cheap?

No. It's an overweight boring slow car that looks sporty but is not.

But, it is certainly well made and reliable and good looking.

I think some of us want a bit more excitement in our driving experiences.

Could I recommend any new car at £40K ish today. No, they are mostly overpriced rubbish.

Buy a five to ten year old ICE V6 or V8 if you really want some value for your money. A 5-10 year old Lexus will be better made than today's cars anyway.

Please direct all abuse to my account. Thank you.

[LenT]

 

1 hour ago, Derant said:

The point I was making was that someone asked a specific question, what mpg could they expect? What should I have said, I don’t know and don’t care!

No Antony, I don’t think anyone would expect you to say that.  And as I made clear, my personal indifference to such stats is why I haven’t made any such comment either.

1 hour ago, Derant said:

Linas jumped straight in with 34 despite never owning that car.

Well I may be mistaken here, but I thought he pointed out that he had driven examples.  But he also makes the valid point that motoring journalists don’t own the cars they drive and yet have no compunction about citing performance stats.  

Now generally these will be lifted off the Press Releases, but if they’ve been able to wangle a loan car for a few days then they may justify it by publishing their stats.  But of course the driving style of journalists in a free loan car that they haven’t bought and don’t have to maintain, may not compare with a normal owner for whom - as you rightly point out - such figures may well be important .

If such figures were important to me, my inclination would be to look at the manufacturer’s claims as generally the best achievable under ideal circumstances and anticipate lower figures under real world conditions.

The claims of ‘actual’ owners - if better - I would regard as interesting but tempered by the fact that I had no idea about their driving style.  

It’s a question of priorities, isn’t it?  If I tried to emulate their stats, I doubt I would enjoy driving nearly as much!

On the other hand, I too would expect to slightly improve on Linas’s figures.  😊

[Cotswold Pete]

48 minutes ago, GMB said:

I think some of us want a bit more excitement in our driving experiences.

Could I recommend any new car at £40K ish today. No, they are mostly overpriced rubbish.

Buy a five to ten year old ICE V6 or V8 if you really want some value for your money. A 5-10 year old Lexus will be better made than today's cars anyway.

Been an amazing read ploughing through this post, and having tried the ES at Cheltenham along with similary priced end of range Avenis, and at the time being a 15 year LS400 user, and now a E360 V6 desiel owner, I kind of concur.

Nice the though the ES was (certainly felt nicer than the Avensis) it did seem to me that I was not sure as was not sure whether going for a 15yr old LS460 or a GS was what I really wanted to do if I was not going to buy a new car (for the first time in my life).

I really like my cruising comfort, as I do not drive on the edge (used to many moons ago - nearly killed myself a few times) but I want a car that can can get me past 'Mrs Grady Old Lady' pootling in her Nissan Micra when I am a little late for work.  The LS would give a fair burst when needed, and the E350 is even better, but the ES seemed to lumber, and the top speed only 112mph seemed to be a mental barrier, it bothered me that if I needed real welly then it was not going to do it.  The LS and the Merc I have had at over 125 for those really squeaky moments (never with the family in the car).

So I would say the ES (IMHO) seems nicer to sit in than the E350 (13 years old), but for sure most cars of the last 10 years seem to be built to a certain degree by accountants counting the cost of plastic versus something nicer.

May the debate continue and maybe in 10 years time I will be looking to see if any ES300s going for a song, and I can be a slow old g*t pootling along.

[serbarry]

I remember seeing an ES for the first time at the Paris cars exhibition in October 2018 and I thought that it was wonderful. I took a lot of photos and sent to my friends saying that maybe when I would retire I could own one. It was the third Lexus I sat inside after an RX in 2001 (do you remember that RX in 2001 pure petrol?) And the 2016 RX450H of my father-in-law which I have seen several times. We can affirm that I had neither clue nor knowledge about Lexus models. Even though I knew the CT which I liked very much, the RX400H, the LS600H and the MK3 GS450H which I felt in love since I saw it for the first time even though I don't remember when. Anyway all these models I barely knew because of reading or watching reviews, seeing them at the dealer, at the traffic lights, parked somewhere, ect. My knowledge was still superficial not because I didn't own one, but because if I didn't go deep in checking interior details, materials quality, doors, leather of the seats, dashboard buttons, noise proofing (is it called like this?), etc. When I discovered the LOC 3 years ago and I introduced myself saying that I was looking for a MK3 GS450H, I still had a superficial knowledge of this model. The only things I knew were that it had the same hybrid system as my Prius, the same MFD (actually identical) as my Prius, that it was 3.5cc and therefore very fast and powerful, that I loved the exterior and interior design. Little by little I read all the topics in the GS450H of this forum and my knowledge increased: I learnt of the different trims and specs, I learnt of the tiny boot which I didn't know (and spoilt by the huge boot of my Prius I had some doubts about buying it). Each time I read the comments of Lina's I learnt something about Lexus but not only from him. I often found him too harsh in his judgements but I appreciated that he was straightforward. And when I read his comments about the ES, not only in this discussion as he had already expressed his views in other discussions, I was really surprised because for me the ES was wonderful since I saw it in Paris. But remember that my comparison was my Prius, so of course the ES was another planet. If you today put me in front of my GS and an ES parked together, I am sure I would not be able to tell you the difference in details of the interior, doors, materials quality, noise proofing, dashboard buttons, leather, etc. And I am sure that I would find the ES a much better car than mine and when Lina's would disagree with me, I would ask him to show me the 2 cars parked in details and go deep in spotting the differences and why the ES is cheap. As for MPG I must admit that I have been misled by what owners of the GS said about the average MPG they can get with their GS. Probably I still have to learn how to drive my GS to get the best MPG and it's disappointing after driving a Prius for 12 years. And yet I didn't blame the owners here in the forum for giving me false and too optimistic MPG figures.

[e-yes]

23 minutes ago, Cotswold Pete said:

and the top speed only 112mph seemed to be a mental barrier, it bothered me that if I needed real welly then it was not going to do it. .

The way it goes from 75mph to the said top speed must have left the two Range Rover drivers trying to hide their number plate from my rear view mirror totally in a "WTF just did that car do" state of mind.

I digress here with a subject for another topic but people buy these big fat SUVs with turbo diesels assuming their vehicles will "go faster" than all other cars at all speeds. (Well again, I have a data point of one person I know personally who assumes his Range Rover Sport will do everything and anything which also recently spontaneously developed a check engine light which was "fixed" by an "independent" after three days in the shop)

These buyers of big fat SUVs don't realise at 75mph the amount of energy needed to carve a 2mx2m hole through air to go even faster will send their pride-n-joy's ECUs into a tizzy trying to find the right shift point and get into the proper gear and to time it so that injectors match charge development from the turbo. The ES is one of the shortest cars (in terms of vehicle height not length) and I estimate the size of the hole it needs to carve through fluid at that speed is MUCH smaller already so it has an advantage. (In simple terms, obviously, ES is more aerodynamic than an SUV.. duh)

By that time the ES300h's hybrid drive on kick-down has rapid discharged the traction Battery and lurched the car forward and that "horrendous" CVT has held the revs at optimal point to take over and carry the speed all the way... try it, you will be surprised like I was how effortlessly it is able to carry higher speeds. The limit of 112mph is there to match emissions regulations (and the same applies to 0-62mph time which in practice is one of the most useless metrics pandered by "luxury" brands) 

And I wonder when I read all that what I have written above... I think it probably takes a certain kind of person to appreciate and go ahead decide with their money that that is exactly what they wanted. Most people will not realise or probably won't even care for the detail and hence be guided by the "reviews". In the end I think people buy what they want... what people want differs from person to person.

Another friend of mine recently bought a Jaguar F-Pace and we were discussing about cars and he gently let it slip into the conversation that Toyota and by association Lexus is a "taxi" brand hence "someone" in his family won't let him even consider a Lexus product 😄

To each their own...

[serbarry]

Well I can tell you that Italians generally buy Mercedes, Audi and BMW because they have some kind of prestige and status and they like to show off. The average Italian still believes that these German brands are the best in the world and they don't care about their reliability. Unfortunately in Italy Lexus has a very little network of dealers mainly located in the centre - north of the country. I think there's no any Lexus dealer below Rome going south.

[Linas.P]

Not that I need to defend myself for having an opinion and to be fair kind people above already said enough! But...

5 hours ago, Derant said:

I do agree with you, a forum is a place for different views and opinions and if A poster doesn’t like my ES? so what. I do think it’s the constant refusing to listen that is the problem, I recall a poster considering buying a IS300h and asking about expected mpg, Linas jumped straight in and said 34mpg despite never owning one. I had done over 30000 miles in my old IS300h averaging around 50mpg so posted that, several other IS owners posted, all from the mid 40’s upwards, would he admit he might be wrong? No chance, page after page, it’s driving style it’s this it’s that, despite never owning one he was right. 

3 hours ago, Derant said:

The point I was making was that someone asked a specific question, what mpg could they expect? What should I have said, I don’t know and don’t care! Linas jumped straight in with 34 despite never owning that car. What do you expect actual owners to do when they have actual experience? MPG might not be important to you but someone asked a question about it. Actual owners mpg is a fact, The figure Linas gave was an opinion 

The 34MPG is not an opinion, that is fact based on my own driving, and I don't only know, but as well I do care, so why would I say otherwise? Are you trying to tell me that 34MPG I got on my driving is not true? Am I lying about it? And that is very important to understand - I don't need to own IS300h to know what MPG I can achieve in it. So you can indeed say - "I get better MPG", but you can't say "you don't know because you don't own it". If I said "all IS300h only ever get's 34MPG and nobody can get better than that and owners are just lying to you and they don't achieve their stated MPG" - that would be an opinion and that would be wrong opinion. Whenever I was right or wrong to state the figure is debatable, but I am quite confident me owning the car would have made no difference. Just to be safe I even went back to the post to clarify that based on my driving style and type of driving I was doing I may have gotten lower MPG than average owner:

On 7/24/2023 at 1:05 PM, Linas.P said:

Upon further reflection against GS300, I think I may be little bit unfair for IS300h when it comes to MPG. Now key things doesn't change - it still does not like speeds above 65MPH, so staying below that speed is best for economy... in contrast with non-hybrid Lexus which seems to prefer 75-85MPH range.

However, I was driving GS300 for few months now and that returns 28-34MPG, leading me to conclusion that I simply didn't give IS300h enough chance to get good MPG due to driving it in heavy traffic both in city and motorway, and when motorway was not too busy I was driving it way faster than it would be wise to state on the public forum. If that is the MPG I achieve on GS300, then IS300h should be able to do 40+ without issues. 

[e-yes]

13 minutes ago, serbarry said:

they have some kind of prestige and status and they like to show off

I think that kind of sums it all up 🙂

For a majority of people, status and some kind of statement that "they are doing well" matters a lot.

To me it doesn't tbh. I would love to fly under the "social radar" as much as I can.

[Linas.P]

1 minute ago, e-yes said:

I think that kind of sums it all up 🙂

For a majority of people, status and some kind of statement that "they are doing well" matters a lot.

To me it doesn't tbh. I would love to fly under the "social radar" as much as I can.

But isn't that part of why Luxury cars exists? Isn't that is why BMW can sell 5-Series for more money than similarly sized Hyundai or Toyota Avalon?

Because as per many examples above, even Prius and Hyundai could do most if not all the same things are Lexus can, the difference is that Lexus is Luxury car, so people will pay more for it being Luxury. Yet the same people put BMW or MB above Lexus based on their perception and that is issue for Luxury brand (if public does not consider them to be Luxury). 

So I appreciate what you saying, there is niche of the market for people who want nice cars, but actually wants to stay under the radar and be different... and Lexus good for that, but they don't have wider appeal in countries where they are not being considered equally as Luxurious, in the end of the day majority of people buying these Luxury items want everyone to know they are Luxurious... they want to be confident everyone knows that.

I personally don't own Lexus because I want to show off either. I simply wanted cheapest way into car of certain quality and Lexus at some point in the past was perfect match for it, more feature rich than BMW, better built, better materials and technically "luxury" brand. It ticket a lot of boxes for me, but at the same time for me car must be RWD, it must be above average in terms of engine power and speed, and it must not bet SUV... so as you can imagine I am less than thrilled with current line-up.

[GMB]

4 minutes ago, e-yes said:

I think that kind of sums it all up 🙂

For a majority of people, status and some kind of statement that "they are doing well" matters a lot.

To me it doesn't tbh. I would love to fly under the "social radar" as much as I can.

Flying under the radar is the sensible choice nowadays. We are all being watched by the system - HMRC DWP etc.

They want to know where your money comes from and how much tax they can screw you for.

The biggest danger is social media. Idiots showing off their cars, holidays, houses and so on. The thieves love all the info.

The same with cars - wolf in sheeps clothing is the ideal. Garage the Isf and the harley fat boy 114. Keep the daily driver in the driveway.

This truth is evident when you go to some European countries. Shoddy exteriors of houses, older cars outside but lovely house interiors with a few cases of Romanee Conti in the cellar.

[Linas.P]

24 minutes ago, GMB said:

wolf in sheeps clothing is the ideal

I would gladly subscribe to this model - IS-F is good example... however at least in UK Lexus seems to offer opposite. 300h F-Sport (of any model) looks very sporty and nice and you would expect they are fast... except they are not. If we had ES350 AWD or maybe imaginary ES-F AWD then my opinion about it would be much more positive, it being Toyota Avalon is not a bad thing, it being FWD, underpowered and boring to drive is. 

[e-yes]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

I would gladly subscribe to this model - IS-F is good example... however at least in UK Lexus seems to offer opposite. 300h F-Sport (of any model) looks very sporty and nice and you would expect they are fast... except they are not. If we had ES350 AWD or maybe imaginary ES-F AWD then my opinion about it would be much more positive, it being Toyota Avalon is not a bad thing, it being FWD, underpowered and boring to drive is. 

I have a feeling that the updated ES will get that Hybrid Max power train. Toyota are testing the waters by putting that power train in trucks and RX F-Sport variant.

Totally conjectural, but I think they would not want to put an untested power train in a model known for reliability. So in a couple of years' time when they have ironed out the issues ... I dream to get an ES with a detuned version of that Hybrid Max. (Detuned to match the weight class of the ES... might even help with fuel consumption as well)

[Linas.P]

2 minutes ago, e-yes said:

I have a feeling that the updated ES will get that Hybrid Max power train. Toyota are testing the waters by putting that power train in trucks and RX F-Sport variant.

Totally conjectural, but I think they would not want to put an untested power train in a model known for reliability. So in a couple of years' time when they have ironed out the issues ... I dream to get an ES with a detuned version of that Hybrid Max. (Detuned to match the weight class of the ES... might even help with fuel consumption as well)

I think now we getting somewhere... and perhaps then they could go after BMW when they ready for it... that said I still think they made mistake marketing the car that way. First impressions matter and now they may actually have to put-out way better car and still deal with public perception long after the fact.

That said I tried S90 T8, which even thought not Hybrid Max, the principle is the same - they have ICE in the front and they have electric in the rear, so they can claim it is AWD, but there is no shaft going to the rear wheels. The S90 T8 is impressive in straight line, but around the corners it still understeers all the way. What I am trying to say - Hybrid Max can make ES a fast car, but I doubt it will handle well. Me doubting obviously doesn't amount to much, torque vectoring may be so advance that it may feel like proper RWD or even better, but that remains to be seen.

[e-yes]

I think they beat me to it 😞

https://www.toyota.com/crown/2023/features/mpg_other_price/4015/4020/4030

The Crown already comes equipped with the Hybrid Max in Platinum Trim 340 HP , so likely the top trim of ES could get that. The ES350 is about the same power output but being a hybrid might be an easier sell in UK/Europe due to low number of sales. Most manufacturers are required to sell some percentage of the lineup as "eco" !

[rayaans]

15 hours ago, serbarry said:

I completely disagree with you as I do enjoy Lina's comments. As I said in the discussion about the LBX I really still don't understand why people here can't have different opinions without getting offended and inviting that person to leave the Loc because nobody wants to read his comments. Well I am interested in Lina's comments because enrich the forum and make topics interesting. What is the purpose of the Loc? Pleasing and congratulating each other for the wonderful cars we own? And after? In the discussion about the LBX another member disagreed with me when I said that I saw ladies struggling to park their SUV and that if they are unable to park them, they should not buy them. The other member said that this happens with any car and not only SUV. I disagree, we have different opinions, no problem. If Lina's said that my GS is rubbish I would ask him why and I would like to know why he thinks so. I would not be offended because it's only his opinion but I would be very curious to know the arguments which support his opinions. And if his arguments are solid and I understand what he means and therefore why he thinks that my car is rubbish, I would tell him that I still love my car because it's perfect for my needs, it's a huge improvement compared to my previous Prius and yes I understand your point, but for me it's not rubbish, it's actually amazing. When I had the Prius, nobody liked it, everyone told me that it was ugly, slow, without any pleasure of driving, etc. I never cared about their opinions nor I was offended because they were looking for something in a car that didn't matter to me. One told me that the Mini he owned was a much better looking car than my Prius: faster, more enjoyable to drive, with a better handling and trendy. I replied that without offence all this was rubbish for me: I didn't need a faster car, I didn't care (at that time) about joy to drive, I didn't care about better handling as most of the time on my itineraries the speed limit was 50 km/h and especially I didn't need people to admire my car because it was trendy and actually when everyone considered my Prius ugly, for me was nice, not beautiful but nice. And unlike the Mini, my Prius was extremely reliable and this is what matters to me above all the aspects. I asked him if he could travel from Cork to Dublin (270 Kms) in the Mini with 5 people, 2 huge suitcases, 5 trolleys (hand luggage) and 2 rucksacks in the boot, because I had already done it with the Prius. I asked him if he could carry a 2 seater sofa bed in the Mini because I had already done it with my Prius. I asked him if he could carry 6 bags of 40 litres each of compost for gardening in the boot of the Mini because I had already done it with my Prius. No? You can't do all these things? Well for me your Mini is useless! This is to say that everyone has different needs and priorities for a car and when Lina's says that your ES is a rebadged Toyota, you should not care, because for you it is wonderful and suits your needs. But the fact that you find your ES wonderful doesn't mean that it's wonderful for everyone. Lina's finds the ES a rebadged Toyota but why you care about his opinions? Is he your dear friend? Your relative? Someone whose opinion is important to you? You can't expect everyone to find the ES wonderful like you do and I don't think that you should ask Lina's to leave this forum for what he said about the ES. I give you another example: each time I talk to my wife about cars she tells me that I wasted my money buying such a useless and unpractical car like the GS: with a tiny boot that I can't fit anything and we always need her Hyundai when we drive to Dublin and fly; with an exaggerated huge engine that I won't need because in my itineraries the speed limit is mostly 50km/h; with a huge fuel consumption compared to the Prius and to her Hyundai; too long and wide that I can't find a parking space; too expensive to maintain for servicing and motor tax; too expensive to fix: I have spent 2,100 euros in the last 4 months for rear shock absorbers, exhaust system and AFS sensor and with the sensor I literally threw away money by going to the dealer. Well my wife is right in every single point raised: they are all objectively negative aspects of my GS. But I love my car. I love looking at it. I love driving it. And there was no other car I desired more when I was looking to replace the Prius. The following 4 nights after buying it I could not manage to sleep much because I was too excited 😊. And I am sorry that my wife doesn't like it because it's my wife and her opinion counts for me. It's not just someone in the Loc giving a bad opinion as Lina's did for your ES.

 

 

Maybe it's because Linas comments have no basis or substance to them.

Like above comments on mpg of a car that he doesn't own and maybe driven once..... 

Constant drivel about basically every Lexus vehicle that comes out....

Trying to justify his ridiculous comparisons and superficial expertise by writing a book on the forum. 

I'm sure Linas would make a brilliant salesman (or a farmer) with the sheer amount of manure that comes out of his mouth, and continues to do so.

[Linas.P]

19 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Maybe it's because Linas comments have no basis or substance to them.

Like above comments on mpg of a car that he doesn't own and maybe driven once..... 

Constant drivel about basically every Lexus vehicle that comes out....

Trying to justify his ridiculous comparisons and superficial expertise by writing a book on the forum. 

I'm sure Linas would make a brilliant salesman (or a farmer) with the sheer amount of manure that comes out of his mouth, and continues to do so.

You are always welcome to prove me wrong! That said it requires little bit than more than basic, common and easily debunkable fallacies to do that. You saying it has no basis or substance does not really prove anything, apart of that you disagree with me, you may as well disagree and be wrong. Or we can both disagree and both be right, because we have different values, needs etc. when it comes to car ownership. 

And why shouldn't I be critical of the vehicles Lexus puts out if they are no good? Again what is basis of your argument? Even if they are sales success that doesn't mean they are good cars, and even if they are good cars then it doesn't mean I have to like them. And who are you to tell me not to talk negatively about them? And what NON-superficial experience do you have to be able to say anything? Does owning RX450h/UX300e and previously if I remember correctly IS300h makes you "certified expert" on all matters Lexus? or simply being always positive about everything regardless of objective truth is what counts?

[rayaans]

6 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

You are always welcome to prove me wrong! That said it requires little bit than more than basic, common and easily debunkable fallacies to do that. You saying it has no basis or substance does not really prove anything, apart of that you disagree with me, you may as well disagree and be wrong. Or we can both disagree and both be right, because we have different values, needs etc. when it comes to car ownership. 

And why shouldn't I be critical of the vehicles Lexus puts out if they are no good? Again what is basis of your argument? Even if they are sales success that doesn't mean they are good cars, and even if they are good cars then it doesn't mean I have to like them. And who are you to tell me not to talk negatively about them? 

You're a fool if you think posting a one off MPG of a car you drove for 10-20 miles is useful information for a start. 

Your criticisms have no basis. You're trying to argue your points against people who have owned many of these cars and other cars. Most of your comments towards the Lexus lineup is negative and that has been going on for a number of years.

No one said you have to like the cars. No one said you have to even own the cars but I think you really need to shut up and stop providing useless negative opinions of vehicles you haven't owned or driven for less than a day. Linas, you're basically a key board warrior / troll - may as well just come to terms with it like most of us have done on this forum already.

[Linas.P]

15 minutes ago, rayaans said:

You're a fool if you think posting a one off MPG of a car you drove for 10-20 miles is useful information for a start. 

Your criticisms have no basis. You're trying to argue your points against people who have owned many of these cars and other cars. Most of your comments towards the Lexus lineup is negative and that has been going on for a number of years.

No one said you have to like the cars. No one said you have to even own the cars but I think you really need to shut up and stop providing useless negative opinions of vehicles you haven't owned or driven for less than a day. Linas, you're basically a key board warrior / troll - may as well just come to terms with it like most of us have done on this forum already.

You are fool is you think I have posted one off MPG of the car which I drove for 10-20 miles. 

What basis does you criticism has? Isn't it hypocrisy to say that without providing any basis yourself? It is irrelevant that somebody owned the car, ownership is not a proof of knowledge, I know many people who owned car for 6 years and the only thing they can tell is that it was "red and some sort of korean car", but according to you they are experts? And so what that my comments are critical (should not be confused with negative) towards Lexus and so what that it has been for number of years. What exactly has changed since 2006 when Lexus decided not to introduce IS350 in UK (which is great car), what has change since 2016 when they did the same with RC350, nothing has changed all the way to this day?.. Have they made any significant change to their strategy which would be positive from my perspective? No they have not, so why would I suddenly be positive about something... they continue to sells same cars I continue to criticise them? What is so surprising here?

You just contradicted yourself twice in single sentence - "No one said you have to like the cars, No one said you have to even own the cars" YET "you really need to shut up and stop providing useless negative opinions of vehicles you haven't owned"... so which one is it, should I own the car and only speak positively about it, or I don't need to own or like the car and can say whatever I think about it?!

I can predict your answer here - "if Lexus strategy is so bad, and if you are so unsatisfied with the cars they are releasing then don't be on the LOC". Is that is what you want to say?! So the answer is the same as it has always been - it is not your business, not your problem and I will continue to be here as long as I want and I will be as critical as I want. Deal with it... 

And if you have come to conclusion that I am troll and keyboard warrior, then why you even arguing - isn't that in wain?! And if I come to terms that is who I am, what difference does it make - I will just continue trolling you. Get that ignore function set-up and take a rest. 

Finally, I still think it is kind of funny that you think you know something about me that even I don't know, you know what cars I have driven and for how long... you really a very gifted person... perhaps you need to buy a magic orb, a spooky tent and tell the people their future, such abilities should not go to waste!

[Steven C]

8 hours ago, Cotswold Pete said:

but the ES seemed to lumber, and the top speed only 112mph seemed to be a mental barrier

I had exactly the same thoughts. Was I making a mistake by trading in my BMW 530e for a slower car. Took the plunge and purchased it from Lexus Cheltenham (friendly bunch) and not disappointed. I use it in Eco mode all the time but when I select Normal mode the Battery kicks in and you fly by the slow movers. Same for the motorways. It will fly up to 90+ if you want to with ease. Something I wasn't sure it would do. I'm not likely to ever do 112 mph. Fuel consumption is amazing up against the BMW. When it's Battery ran out the fuel consumption rocketed downwards. A trip out yesterday in the ES resulted in 69 mpg. 

[serbarry]

3 hours ago, rayaans said:

Maybe it's because Linas comments have no basis or substance to them.

Like above comments on mpg of a car that he doesn't own and maybe driven once..... 

Constant drivel about basically every Lexus vehicle that comes out....

Trying to justify his ridiculous comparisons and superficial expertise by writing a book on the forum. 

I'm sure Linas would make a brilliant salesman (or a farmer) with the sheer amount of manure that comes out of his mouth, and continues to do so.

So you assume that I am a stupid who likes Lina's comments because they have no basis or substance to them. According to you I am a superficial and dumb person who likes reading his comments which according to you have no basis. In every single comments Lina's wrote, he gave solid reasons and detailed information. Your reply is always irritated, upset, bothered because his comments are negative about the ES or Lexus in general. I haven't read a single reply with solid basis so my question is again the same: why do you care about his comments? As explained above if you think that your car is wonderful it doesn't mean that it is for everyone and I really find it childish to be upset because one person, and only one in this forum, doesn't congratulate you for your amazing car and instead criticizes it. Can't you really accept that one person doesn't like it? Ok so accept my congratulations and forget about Lina's: I still think that ES is wonderful and I am not joking: I find it very attractive from the exterior but the interior I can't tell you because I saw it only once in Paris in 2018 as said above. Anyway I remember that I was impressed and sent pictures to my friends saying that maybe when I will retire I could buy one. Each time I went to Lexus Cork I always had a look at the ES parked there because especially after Lina's comments, I always hoped to be able to see the interior and understand why Lina's comments are so negative. Unfortunately all ES were locked. So my only memories of the interior are back to 2018 when, I must remind you, my comparison was my Prius. And when back in 2004 I was lucky enough to have a brand new Prius as loan for a week from the local dealer in Italy, everyone of my friends was astonished by the interior of the Prius, the materials quality, the ultra comfortable seats and especially the touch MFD with the image of the Battery charging and discharging and changing colour and the flows describing the HSD system. If I am not wrong at that time, the Prius was the first ever car on the market with a touch MFD and for sure with that colourful screen. Unfortunately all my friends told me that it had a wonderful interior design but it was ugly outside and that for that price they would have bought a Mini (which was very popular and trendy in 2004 in Italy). And you know what? I could not care less about my friends' opinions nor I was offended or bothered by their opinions. And I said to myself that if one day I would find an affordable second hand Prius I would have bought it (I could not afford brand new). And indeed I moved to Ireland in 2007 and in 2010, when my 1994 Civic coupé died, (so please pay attention: my comparison with the Prius was my 1994 Civic coupé), I found a 2004 Prius and my dream came true. In 12 wonderful years of ownership I have loved it every single day and still now I think it was my best car ever, even better than the GS which, in nearly 2 years of ownership, has already costed me 2,800 euros for servicing and repairs. Now I ask you: do you agree with me that my 2004 Prius was an amazing car with a wonderful interior? You don't? I am sorry but you are WRONG!!!! Because you have not owned a Prius for 12 years and therefore, you can't judge my Prius because as you said only the owners can judge their cars. The same as according to you Lina's can't judge the ES because he doesn't own it, but, if he had a positive opinion about the ES, it would not matter if he doesn't own one because you would be the happiest child in the world because one more person likes your toy.

PS this forum is just so boring when you can only congratulate each other for the cars you bought and insult someone who criticises them.