Self Healing Brake Pads!!??

Pielight · August 6, 2023

My 2017 GSF has 37,500 miles, on what I believe are the original discs and pads - I bought the car 3.5 years ago at 19,500 miles and then you could feel a considerable wear lip on front discs, so Im pretty sure theyve never been replaced.

2 years and around 10k miles ago, the Lexus dealer reported pads at 4mm, then at 2 mm one year later (1 year ago).. recommending replacement both times. The wear sensor should trigger at 2mm, but still no alert.

2 weeks ago the same dealer gave the brakes a clean bill of health during a major service! I pointed out that the previous year they flagged the front brake pads as an mot advisory item, but was told they were fine on this occasion.

It seems that I have self healing brake pads fitted!!! 😅 The brakes still perform absolutely perfect, so Im leaving them for now.

ColinBarber · August 6, 2023

37k on original pads - you aren’t trying hard enough 😉

I’ve been advised on more than one occasion across various different Lexus cars that my pads are worn and won’t last before the next service only to find there is 5mm+ still left 😠

PS Ideally don’t wait until the warning comes on otherwise you have the expense of having to replace the wear sensors

Pielight · August 6, 2023

I drive it very hard on occasions (especially on twisty B roads), but am generally light on brakes... particularly as the GSF has pretty heavy engine/transmission braking.

There is a chance that the PO has changed the pads and not the discs which as I mentioned had significant wear ridges when I bought the car 18k miles ago.

I was going to change both pads and discs before the warning appears, but on the Lexus parts direct website, both the pads alone or disc/pads kits show the wear sensors/wires to be included 👍🏼

ColinBarber · August 6, 2023

5 hours ago, Pielight said:

I was going to change both pads and discs before the warning appears, but on the Lexus parts direct website, both the pads alone or disc/pads kits show the wear sensors/wires to be included

Yes, if you go with direct Lexus replacements then you get the sensors but many of the replacement pads (e.g. EBC) don’t.

MNMJ · August 7, 2023

I've had plenty of main dealer advisories over 13 years of F ownership. Most can be comfortably ignored.

I'm still on original brakes and pads after 54,000 miles. I find anticipation, and carrying speed through corners, reduce the need for the left pedal.

mr2lad · August 7, 2023

On 8/6/2023 at 7:58 AM, ColinBarber said:

37k on original pads - you aren’t trying hard enough 😉

I’ve been advised on more than one occasion across various different Lexus cars that my pads are worn and won’t last before the next service only to find there is 5mm+ still left 😠

PS Ideally don’t wait until the warning comes on otherwise you have the expense of having to replace the wear sensors

Have you ever tried to get out the wear sensors after being fitted for sometime, they usually break…. Rockauto in the USA do the wear sensors at a very cheap price compared to lexus pricing….shipping is cheap and extremly fast… i bought 8 lots and still have a spare 4 for the next time i change my pads…. 4 yrs in and ive changed my pads twice… not because of wear but replaced discs with new pads only to find they where really dusty pads so got a year out of them before my OCD properly kicked in and changed them for a lower dust ones…and wear sensors didn’t come out in one piece

ColinBarber · August 7, 2023

1 hour ago, mr2lad said:

Have you ever tried to get out the wear sensors after being fitted for sometime, they usually break

I reused mine when I changed out the pads for EBC ones to stop the squealing and reduce dust - they came out fine having been in there for 3+ years.

Pielight · August 11, 2023

On 8/6/2023 at 6:28 PM, ColinBarber said:

Yes, if you go with direct Lexus replacements then you get the sensors but many of the replacement pads (e.g. EBC) don’t.

Thanks...although I'm leaning towards oem replacements, I'll keep that in mind.

Pielight · August 11, 2023

On 8/7/2023 at 1:54 PM, MNMJ said:

I've had plenty of main dealer advisories over 13 years of F ownership. Most can be comfortably ignored.

I'm still on original brakes and pads after 54,000 miles. I find anticipation, and carrying speed through corners, reduce the need for the left pedal.

54k miles is pretty amazing, particularly for a performance car. My wife's Renault captur scores you on different elements of eco driving...I normally get top marks for anticipation! 🤣 However, I do rag the GSF around from time to time so I certainly don't expect to get that sort of mileage from my car!

Jgtcracer · August 11, 2023

8 hours ago, Pielight said:

54k miles is pretty amazing, particularly for a performance car. My wife's Renault captur scores you on different elements of eco driving...I normally get top marks for anticipation! 🤣 However, I do rag the GSF around from time to time so I certainly don't expect to get that sort of mileage from my car!

I’m starting to get a little squealing at slow speeds and pads look low so will probably change mine. Currently at around 25,000 miles….

Pielight · August 11, 2023

7 hours ago, Jgtcracer said:

I’m starting to get a little squealing at slow speeds and pads look low so will probably change mine. Currently at around 25,000 miles….

What will you change them with.....oem?

Jgtcracer · August 12, 2023

6 hours ago, Pielight said:

What will you change them with.....oem?

Still not settled yet but considering EBC Redstuff front and rear. Price seems good and hear good things. Particularly like the less dust they seem to generate and at £300 all round it’s hard to ignore. OEM is a safe bet but the car has had squealing brakes at slow speeds for the last 15,000 miles and in not a fan of it! Heard that the compound has changed since then but now sure I want to risk it…

ColinBarber · August 12, 2023

11 minutes ago, Jgtcracer said:

Heard that the compound has changed since then but now sure I want to risk it…

Not that I’m aware of, although there is an alternative part code with a different compound to prevent squealing, with a warning not to track the car.

Juicedrinker · August 12, 2023

On 8/6/2023 at 3:34 AM, Pielight said:

My 2017 GSF has 37,500 miles, on what I believe are the original discs and pads - I bought the car 3.5 years ago at 19,500 miles and then you could feel a considerable wear lip on front discs, so Im pretty sure theyve never been replaced.

2 years and around 10k miles ago, the Lexus dealer reported pads at 4mm, then at 2 mm one year later (1 year ago).. recommending replacement both times. The wear sensor should trigger at 2mm, but still no alert.

2 weeks ago the same dealer gave the brakes a clean bill of health during a major service! I pointed out that the previous year they flagged the front brake pads as an mot advisory item, but was told they were fine on this occasion.

It seems that I have self healing brake pads fitted!!! 😅 The brakes still perform absolutely perfect, so Im leaving them for now.

Jgtcracer · August 12, 2023

2 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

Not that I’m aware of, although there is an alternative part code with a different compound to prevent squealing, with a warning not to track the car.

Now you mention that, I am aware it’s actually a different pad. Interestingly ‘alternative’ suggests Lexus still use the original on new cars too??

Although I’ve not had the RCF on track, my 10yr old has been asking me to take her around Knockhill in it so over the next few years I may end up going on a track day…

Rabbers · August 12, 2023

On 8/6/2023 at 8:58 AM, ColinBarber said:

37k on original pads - you aren’t trying hard enough 😉

8 hours ago, Jgtcracer said:

…Heard that the compound has changed …

Interesting. When I asked at my 60000km service if my pads were OK, I was assured they were. Same reply at 75000km, leading me to comment that this was impressive. The service manager agreed, adding that this was not unusual after the pads were “improved” with the RC’s 2019 facelift. Checking back, we saw that the front pads on my 2016 RC had in fact been changed at 58700km (i.e. with the 60000km service). I haven’t thought about it again until now but my understanding was that the quality of the compound used for all sizes of Lexus/Toyota pads then current was modified for the better around 2019 and would presumably have been adopted as standard across the range thereafter.

ColinBarber · August 12, 2023

59 minutes ago, Rabbers said:

The service manager agreed, adding that this was not unusual after the pads were “improved” with the RC’s 2019 facelift.

Yes they were changed on March 2019 built models where they started to use Pagid rather than Brembo/Galfer pads, and in fact they changed them again later in that year and again the following year so they couldn't have been happy with them initially.

But if you order a set of the original pads I'm sure you will receive Brembo/Galfer ones as the newer ones have different part codes.

Pielight · August 13, 2023

On 8/12/2023 at 7:37 AM, Jgtcracer said:

Still not settled yet but considering EBC Redstuff front and rear. Price seems good and hear good things. Particularly like the less dust they seem to generate and at £300 all round it’s hard to ignore. OEM is a safe bet but the car has had squealing brakes at slow speeds for the last 15,000 miles and in not a fan of it! Heard that the compound has changed since then but now sure I want to risk it…

I’m also tempted with EBC Redstuff, but I’m pretty ocd when it comes to deviating from oem, so will probably end up sticking with oem.

I wouldn’t be concerned about using any pads for a one off track day at knockhill with your 10 year old. I can’t imagine that you’ll be thrashing the car within an inch of its life, last second braking and drifting around corners with her alongside you. IMO you could still do a more than sufficiently spirited drive that is commensurate with having a child on board with more regular pads.

My oem pads don’t squeal at all, yet they did at low speed when I first got the car 19k miles ago. Maybe they glazed over or something when the car was stood around awaiting a buyer…whatever the case the squealing stopped completely not long after I bought it.

MNMJ · August 13, 2023

On 8/11/2023 at 5:13 PM, Jgtcracer said:

I’m starting to get a little squealing at slow speeds and pads look low so will probably change mine. Currently at around 25,000 miles….

Mne squealed for a while a few years back, but it stopped and I'd forgotten all about it. Maybe it is a phase they go thorough?

Jgtcracer · August 13, 2023

3 hours ago, Pielight said:

I’m also tempted with EBC Redstuff, but I’m pretty ocd when it comes to deviating from oem, so will probably end up sticking with oem.

I wouldn’t be concerned about using any pads for a one off track day at knockhill with your 10 year old. I can’t imagine that you’ll be thrashing the car within an inch of its life, last second braking and drifting around corners with her alongside you. IMO you could still do a more than sufficiently spirited drive that is commensurate with having a child on board with more regular pads.

My oem pads don’t squeal at all, yet they did at low speed when I first got the car 19k miles ago. Maybe they glazed over or something when the car was stood around awaiting a buyer…whatever the case the squealing stopped completely not long after I bought it.

I’m going to want to get some track time alone too and possibly will push quite hard! I’ll perhaps try giving the car a couple of hard brakes from speed and see how they get on, probably only got a few mm left though anyway.

BillNick · August 23, 2023

On 8/6/2023 at 3:34 AM, Pielight said:

My 2017 GSF has 37,500 miles, on what I believe are the original discs and pads - I bought the car 3.5 years ago at 19,500 miles and then you could feel a considerable wear lip on front discs, so Im pretty sure theyve never been replaced.

2 years and around 10k miles ago, the Lexus dealer reported pads at 4mm, then at 2 mm one year later (1 year ago).. recommending replacement both times. The wear sensor should trigger at 2mm, but still no alert.

2 weeks ago the same dealer gave the brakes a clean bill of health during a major service! I pointed out that the previous year they flagged the front brake pads as an mot advisory item, but was told they were fine on this occasion.

It seems that I have self healing brake pads fitted!!! 😅 The brakes still perform absolutely perfect, so Im leaving them for now.

If you have self healing pads, then I have self healing tyres! haha

I fitted new tyres Feb 2022 (8mm tread).

Aug 2022 the annual service vehicle checklist shows 7,7,7 across all 4 tyres - as you would expect.

Feb 2023 I went in for the fuel tank recall. The health check reported 5,5,2.5 on the fronts and advised me to monitor the inner edge (being 2.5). It was not this low, I measured it at home. The same technician also told me I had "a slight lip on discs" - I had fitted brand new OEM discs just 2 weeks before this report lol.

August 2023, next annual service. Health check reports 5,5,5 for all 4 tyres and "nearly new brakes".

Take the health check with a pinch of salt and do you own checks afterwards. I think in my case the same technician did my 2 annual services and different one did the recall work.

However, seems you DO need discs and pads. My recommendation is OEM discs with Red Stuff pads and reuse the sensors if you get them off carefully - spray and clean before trying to pop them out of the old pads - they do go brittle.

You might also want to purchase new fitting bolts which come in a kit. As @mr2lad said above, go to RockAuto as despite coming from the US you can get this kit (and sensors) for a fraction of the price. Nice new shiny bolts add extra satisfaction to the job 🙂

Pielight · August 24, 2023

14 hours ago, BillNick said:

If you have self healing pads, then I have self healing tyres! haha

I fitted new tyres Feb 2022 (8mm tread).

Aug 2022 the annual service vehicle checklist shows 7,7,7 across all 4 tyres - as you would expect.

Feb 2023 I went in for the fuel tank recall. The health check reported 5,5,2.5 on the fronts and advised me to monitor the inner edge (being 2.5). It was not this low, I measured it at home. The same technician also told me I had "a slight lip on discs" - I had fitted brand new OEM discs just 2 weeks before this report lol.

August 2023, next annual service. Health check reports 5,5,5 for all 4 tyres and "nearly new brakes".

Take the health check with a pinch of salt and do you own checks afterwards. I think in my case the same technician did my 2 annual services and different one did the recall work.

However, seems you DO need discs and pads. My recommendation is OEM discs with Red Stuff pads and reuse the sensors if you get them off carefully - spray and clean before trying to pop them out of the old pads - they do go brittle.

You might also want to purchase new fitting bolts which come in a kit. As @mr2lad said above, go to RockAuto as despite coming from the US you can get this kit (and sensors) for a fraction of the price. Nice new shiny bolts add extra satisfaction to the job 🙂

Yes, it makes you feel inclined to take all the service checks they say they've done with a pinch of salt!

Despite my general inclination to stick with oem equipment, I'm definitely leaning more to the red stuff pads, having been recommended by yourself and others with first hand experience of them. Less dust as well as price is a big attraction. The new bolt kit is also a good call...as you say getting those back to brand new makes for a better more satisfying job. Thanks 👍🏼

BillNick · August 24, 2023

It’s a satisfying job to do yourself. The engineering makes it very easy. If your discs are siezed on use the 13mm caliper bolt to screw into the threaded hole on face of the disc to push it off the hub - genius!!

Pielight · August 24, 2023

7 hours ago, BillNick said:

It’s a satisfying job to do yourself. The engineering makes it very easy. If your discs are siezed on use the 13mm caliper bolt to screw into the threaded hole on face of the disc to push it off the hub - genius!!

Great tip thanks.... I'll certainly keep it in mind 👍🏼