Dyno run IS250 results

[zoricib]

So had a dyno run on my 55plate is250 with 114k miles on it. Mods (if you couls call them that) are stainless steel backboxes & poor-man's F-sport intake (aka a hole cut in the airfilter housing)

Dyno run bhp 186 vs 204 spec (9%difference) 

Dyno torque 164 ft-lb vs 186 ft-lb spec ( 12% difference)

 

Decent result or nah?

 

 

[Mr Vlad]

Looks to me your mods have lost power not made any.

[zoricib]

19 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Looks to me your mods have lost power not made any.

Very likely, although doubt it would have made much more power stock as I would expect it to have some sort of loss from the factory fugures.

The mods I made are purely for sound, not for performance. The car already has more power than I have driving skill anyways. 

 

[Vintagesixtysix]

Same plate as mine…

I don’t think one horse going missing a year is too bad.

I guess you didn’t have a reading as stock, so hard to compare.

You may of made a difference with what you’ve done 🤷‍♂️

im sure you weren’t expecting that much without being able to increase intake, tune, headers & straight pipe.

[zoricib]

Had no expectation honestly and was done as more of a curiosity as someone on facebook mentioned it and the dyno people are 10 minutes away. 

The mods I did don't think made a difference ( not positively anyways) but quite happy with the result. 

[Linas.P]

3 hours ago, zoricib said:

So had a dyno run on my 55plate is250 with 114k miles on it. Mods (if you couls call them that) are stainless steel backboxes & poor-man's F-sport intake (aka a hole cut in the airfilter housing)

Dyno run bhp 186 vs 204 spec (9%difference) 

Dyno torque 164 ft-lb vs 186 ft-lb spec ( 12% difference)

 

Decent result or nah?

 

 

I think those are very good results, but depends on how it was adjusted for loses? Because 204 was at the crank... 

As well what fuel you had in the car? 

Besides you would expect some loses over 114k miles, I guess if you did engine overhaul, replace oils, fluids, spark plugs, all the ancillaries etc. then it would be similar to what it was, but otherwise I think good results. 

[zoricib]

43 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

I think those are very good results, but depends on how it was adjusted for loses? Because 204 was at the crank... 

As well what fuel you had in the car? 

Besides you would expect some loses over 114k miles, I guess if you did engine overhaul, replace oils, fluids, spark plugs, all the ancillaries etc. then it would be similar to what it was, but otherwise I think good results. 

Had tesco momentum 99 in it as that's what I typically use.

Did sparks, coolant, dif fluid etc at around 90k and engine oil was changed 2k ago. 

 

[ColinBarber]

15 hours ago, Linas.P said:

I think those are very good results, but depends on how it was adjusted for loses? Because 204 was at the crank... 

This. Always difficult to know how accurate a dyno engine result is because it is estimating the drivetrain losses, especially if you have an auto - the only figure that is accurate is at the wheels figure.

Here's someone else's dyno result:

and this is what the actual engine chart should look like when new:

 

[Mr Vlad]

Absolutely Colin. Auto's are a different kettle of fish where dyno runs are concerned. 

[H3XME]

I find those figures a bit disappointing, but we'll see when I take mine. It isn't awful, but I don't think it's the case of it losing 1hp per year.. Having had a few of my cars dyno'd - stock and modified, I know that manufacturers like to lie on the spec sheets and when they officially say 204bhp, it could be either way. Most of the time they make less than what's stated. GT86 should be making 200PS/198BHP stock, but when a few of us went to Dynodaze (same place as above) stock cars were making ~185bhp.. mine made 198bhp with a cutback & better air filter (just filter, not a whole intake).

I was meant to go that day with @TadasC but my car decided to throw CEL on Thursday and I can't find my OBD so ordered another one to check the fault. The car drives fine, but I don't want to take any chances until I know what code pops up. 

Mine is manual with an aftermarket resonator, free flowing mufflers and a full K&N Typhoon air intake kit, so again not really a fair comparison, but Tadas has a stock automatic with an F-Sport airbox.

Just as an interesting fact, my girlfriend's '19 Civic FK7 (1.5 turbo 4pot) should make 184bhp according to Honda, but all of those cars make between 197-204bhp when dyno'd.

[Linas.P]

I would just remind that dyno number is basically meaningless, unless used for before and after modifications. Simply because I could make any car to do almost any power on dyno... adjust temperature compensation, let some air out of the tyres, adjust loses too much and our little IS250 is making 300HP in no time... that means absolutely nothing and for example loses adjustment is completely arbitrary and it is done based on "experience". So for manual box some shops tends to add 10% and auto 20%, but those number are literally just guess, some autos will lose less than manual when locked-up, so go figure!

Starting from basics - all engine power on all production cars since basically forever, since dynos were used probably are stated in HP at the crank (measured with engine dyno on the stand), the dyno used on the wheels obviously measures WHP, so figure will always be lower from what it had in the factory by ~5-30%. As I said most dyno places "adjust" it, but because each model, and each individual car, and even the same car in different weather gets different results, there is no way to get 100% correct reading.

For that reason most dynos auto adjust for things like temperature, humidity and atmospheric pressure, or if they don't do it automatically then operator should enter correct measures, but that is where you can adjust dyno to show ridiculous power if you want. The loss compensation is literally a field where you enter how much % is lost, if somebody is fooling around with that they can simply enter 100% and suddenly IS250 is making 400HP.

So for that reason I said 184WHP is very good for IS250, if we assume about 10% transmission loses we getting bang on 202.4HP at the crank. But that is why I am asking what were the settings, because if that is 184HP after say 15% adjustment, then it would be very low to the point of broken. 

In short the dyno is useless when comparing two different cars on two different days, on two different dynos. What it is useful for is getting you car on the dyno before fitting air intake, exhaust or whatever other mod to get baseline and then getting it on the same dyno, with the same settings/conditions after the mod... and if the mod added 15WHP, then likely car makes true 15WHP more. Or obviously dynos are very useful for live tuning of ECU, because then you can get confirmation of tuning literally live and adjust as needed. Hence I only accept chip tuning claims that are made on the car and on the dyno, anything that is sent over the post without having the car on dyno is pretty much useless and either does not deliver the power or could outright blow the car to bits. 

[zoricib]

3 hours ago, H3XME said:

I find those figures a bit disappointing, but we'll see when I take mine. It isn't awful, but I don't think it's the case of it losing 1hp per year.. Having had a few of my cars dyno'd - stock and modified, I know that manufacturers like to lie on the spec sheets and when they officially say 204bhp, it could be either way. Most of the time they make less than what's stated. GT86 should be making 200PS/198BHP stock, but when a few of us went to Dynodaze (same place as above) stock cars were making ~185bhp.. mine made 198bhp with a cutback & better air filter (just filter, not a whole intake).

I was meant to go that day with @TadasC but my car decided to throw CEL on Thursday and I can't find my OBD so ordered another one to check the fault. The car drives fine, but I don't want to take any chances until I know what code pops up. 

Mine is manual with an aftermarket resonator, free flowing mufflers and a full K&N Typhoon air intake kit, so again not really a fair comparison, but Tadas has a stock automatic with an F-Sport airbox.

Just as an interesting fact, my girlfriend's '19 Civic FK7 (1.5 turbo 4pot) should make 184bhp according to Honda, but all of those cars make between 197-204bhp when dyno'd.

Was wondering why you didn't show up 😄 as went for it after you posted on Facebook. Hope the car's ok and it's just an odd error. 

As for the results, I forgot to turn off air conditioning and my heated seat - don't know if that would have made a difference though? And not sure if the guy who put the car on the dyno disabled traction control etc - but don't know what the standard procedure is with these.

I'm not bothered with the results as it's more car than I can handle anyway but curious what results yours and @TadasC will get.

 

[H3XME]

3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

 

So for that reason I said 184WHP is very good for IS250, if we assume about 10% transmission loses we getting bang on 202.4HP at the crank. But that is why I am asking what were the settings, because if that is 184HP after say 15% adjustment, then it would be very low to the point of broken. 

In short the dyno is useless when comparing two different cars on two different days, on two different dynos. What it is useful for is getting you car on the dyno before fitting air intake, exhaust or whatever other mod to get baseline and then getting it on the same dyno, with the same settings/conditions after the mod... and if the mod added 15WHP, then likely car makes true 15WHP more. Or obviously dynos are very useful for live tuning of ECU, because then you can get confirmation of tuning literally live and adjust as needed. Hence I only accept chip tuning claims that are made on the car and on the dyno, anything that is sent over the post without having the car on dyno is pretty much useless and either does not deliver the power or could outright blow the car to bits. 

He didn't get 186WHP though.. he got 186 at the crank and 148WHP.. 

This is what RR Racing show on their dyno. 161whp (~190bhp) IS250 Manual with 150k miles.. For RWD cars it's generally 15% drivetrain loss so the figure checks out. Automatics, these older ones like IS250 will have a greater drivetrain loss.. ~20% which again checks out for Bogdan and his auto 250. Figures seem correct, albeit a bit low. 

[H3XME]

1 hour ago, zoricib said:

Was wondering why you didn't show up 😄 as went for it after you posted on Facebook. Hope the car's ok and it's just an odd error. 

As for the results, I forgot to turn off air conditioning and my heated seat - don't know if that would have made a difference though? And not sure if the guy who put the car on the dyno disabled traction control etc - but don't know what the standard procedure is with these.

I'm not bothered with the results as it's more car than I can handle anyway but curious what results yours and @TadasC will get.

 

A/C would make a small 2hp difference but I'm sure they turn it off. Heated seats wouldn't make a difference.

I'll post it up once we go.

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, zoricib said:

Was wondering why you didn't show up 😄 as went for it after you posted on Facebook. Hope the car's ok and it's just an odd error. 

As for the results, I forgot to turn off air conditioning and my heated seat - don't know if that would have made a difference though? And not sure if the guy who put the car on the dyno disabled traction control etc - but don't know what the standard procedure is with these.

I'm not bothered with the results as it's more car than I can handle anyway but curious what results yours and @TadasC will get.

A/C would not contribute much ~2-5hp, heated seat probably no perceptible difference at all.

[Linas.P]

4 minutes ago, H3XME said:

A/C would make a small 2hp difference but I'm sure they turn it off. Heated seats wouldn't make a difference.

I'll post it up once we go.

lol - we said it at the same time...

As for WHP over crank, that is why I asked the question and that is why I said what I said above about using dyno overall. One just can't compare the figures, unless both cars go onto the same dyno at the same time... but then one can't compare auto to manual either. I only looked at the picture now and can see 148WHP.. that said it says MT for the car, so adjustment may be wrong and who knows if atmospheric pressure is what it was. 

So it is kind of "fun activity", but unless it is being used to track the upgrades impact it is pretty meaningless in itself.

[H3XME]

8 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

So it is kind of "fun activity", but unless it is being used to track the upgrades impact it is pretty meaningless in itself.

Yeah for sure. I've dyno'd N/A car before and after exhaust + intake and while it made almost 15hp more it wasn't noticeable anyway. 

[Linas.P]

Indeed, because interpreting dyno results is real minefield. And thus chasing them or comparing them is even more difficult. 

I guess there are things that are generally true, but even that isn't conclusive e.g. rather than peak power is better to look into overall curve above the baseline. Often after mod car get's 15WHP more at 7000RPM, which will be imperceptible, but loses same 15WHP at 3500RPM and more importantly 25Nm Torque. So despite of making peak 15WHP more the car could actually feel slower and be slower in real world.