No Claims Discount Question

[Notamech]

Hi all. Hoping some of you insurance experts out there could help me. I only just recently became aware that no claims discounts are tied to the car and not the person. I am the registered keeper and insurer of 2 cars a honda jazz and my lexus is300h. My understanding was that no claims bonuses can be carried on to other cars. For example when we bought the jazz 3 years ago i had 2 years no claim bonus from a civic i previously owned and the insurance company was ok with me carrying this over when insuring the jazz. 

Now when i bought the is300h as a 2nd car apparently I start at 0 because im already using the 5 years that i have accumulated on the jazz and previous cars, when insuring the jazz. This has created some confusion now. So what happens say 5 years down the line if i want to upgrade to another car? Do i start at 0 again? Or will i have 2 sets of no claim bonuses 1 for the jazz (perhaps 10 years by then) and one for the lexus(5 years by then) ? Can this 2nd set then be used on the new car i buy? What happens if a few years down the line i decide to have just one car? Can i combine the no claims from both my cars? I couldn't find clarity around this anywhere. Would appreciate advice from anyone with experience owning multiple cars. 

[Brian R]

Very similar situation to me and this is how I believe it works.

For most of my life I drove co cars and somewhen around 2012 I bought a "personal" car and that had to be insured from scratch i.e. with no NCB, albeit I think the insurance company gave me a 1 year token NCB.

In or around 2017 I bought a second car and like you, I nearly fell foul of the rules and in practice I again had to insure this from scratch and once more build up a separate NCB.

Importantly, the NCB on each car is transferable to any subsequent cars one might buy to replace those previously insured. NCB is not car specific but recognised simply as two policies. So for example, I kept my first car and built up a unique NCB and in the same way built up NCB on the second car. Both cars have since been replaced and I'm still running two distinct insurance policies, each with their own accrued NCB from the cars they replaced.

Hope this helps, and I'm sure if you look around there may well be some multi car policy, but I'm sure that too will come with its own slant on matters.

Perhaps I should also add, don't let your NCB lapse, given some insurers like to see continuity from one year to the next. Again, some insurers are "happy" to perpetuate NCB even if you haven't insured for some years. Something you need to factor into matters.

[Notamech]

Thanks. That makes a lot of sense. So sounds like 2 separate sets are maintained tied in to 2 separate policies. I wasnt aware of this and used the same no claim bonus from the jazz. The previous insurance company even gave me a certificate for the lexus when the policy expired with 5 years of ncb😜

However now that i realised its not allowed i called the new insurance company i am with to let them know its not 5 years but 0 and they charged me £165 to update my policy. Expensive mistake. 

Guessing if i decide to have just 1 car in future i just use the higher no claims bonus and let the other one hang in limbo until I decide to get a 2nd car again? 

[wharfhouse]

13 minutes ago, Notamech said:

Thanks. That makes a lot of sense. So sounds like 2 separate sets are maintained tied in to 2 separate policies. I wasnt aware of this and used the same no claim bonus from the jazz. The previous insurance company even gave me a certificate for the lexus when the policy expired with 5 years of ncb😜

However now that i realised its not allowed i called the new insurance company i am with to let them know its not 5 years but 0 and they charged me £165 to update my policy. Expensive mistake. 

Guessing if i decide to have just 1 car in future i just use the higher no claims bonus and let the other one hang in limbo until I decide to get a 2nd car again? 

As you have found NCB built up with one car policy is not applied to an additional second car policy. Some years ago my wife insured our campervan in addition to her own car. The (different) insurance company for the campervan granted her a starting NCB the same as her existing car NCB so worth asking the question. 

Another quirk though is if one has an accident on one of the two policies, when renewing the policy on which the accident didn't occur one still had to declare that as a driver on another policy one has had an accident which will then end up loading both policies. The insurance companies have set it up so they always gain and you always lose... 

[Notamech]

1 minute ago, wharfhouse said:

As you have found NCB built up with one car policy is not applied to an additional second car policy. Some years ago my wife insured our campervan in addition to her own car. The (different) insurance company for the campervan granted her a starting NCB the same as her existing car NCB so worth asking the question. 

Another quirk though is if one has an accident on one of the two policies, when renewing the policy on which the accident didn't occur one still had to declare that as a driver on another policy one has had an accident which will then end up loading both policies. The insurance companies have set it up so they always gain and you always lose... 

Absolutely agree. They do their best to shaft us every little opportunity they get. I remember 1st central charging me £60 because they found that i hadn't correctly declared the date i passed my test. Only the month and year filtered through from moneysupermarket. 

[Brian R]

50 minutes ago, Notamech said:

Guessing if i decide to have just 1 car in future i just use the higher no claims bonus and let the other one hang in limbo until I decide to get a 2nd car again? 

Exactly so, and in reality I used my policy with the longer NCB to insure the LC and the shorter to insure the other "lesser" car. I do feel aggrieved that I cannot possibly drive both cars at the same time, but as you say insurers are past masters in shafting their customers.

[matt8]

Watch out if you’re building up two lots of no claims. 

If you don’t apply those to your car after I believe two years, you lose them entirely!

[bigglesfllesundone]

If you have two sets of no claims, and one car, if the no claims bonus (NCB) disappears two years after a policy finishes.

One may maintain both NCBs by alternating which NCB one uses to support each years car policy.

[Mr_Groundhog]

And of course all of this complexity is a mere coincidence, no intention behind it by the insurers, of course

[Digifant]

Well, it sounds rediciolous to me, that NCB attached to a car. It used to be applied to driver only. Even when I do aplicattion form for insurance, it asks me for my NCB, without any car related. New drivers buys cheap cars to earn that NCB, to have better insurance price for their next better cars. And how it sounds, when you come to insurance, and they ask if you had any accidents? And you say that there was no accidents for 5 years on one car and 2 years no accidents on another? 

But what if to buy one insurance for two cars?...🤔

Another thing is second driver. If you are as a second driver in insurance contract, you don't earn NCB. If you are insured by company for driving company's car, you don't earn personal NCB.

 

[Notamech]

1 hour ago, Digifant said:

Well, it sounds rediciolous to me, that NCB attached to a car. It used to be applied to driver only. Even when I do aplicattion form for insurance, it asks me for my NCB, without any car related. New drivers buys cheap cars to earn that NCB, to have better insurance price for their next better cars. And how it sounds, when you come to insurance, and they ask if you had any accidents? And you say that there was no accidents for 5 years on one car and 2 years no accidents on another? 

But what if to buy one insurance for two cars?...🤔

Another thing is second driver. If you are as a second driver in insurance contract, you don't earn NCB. If you are insured by company for driving company's car, you don't earn personal NCB.

 

So turns out its not tied to the car but to the no of car insurance policies you have. On the accidents as someone clarified yes thats how it is - you declare 5 on 1 and 2 on the 2nd one but if you unfortunately have an accident on either of the two cars you have to declare it on both your insurance policies. And i think you lose your no claim discount on both policies. 

 

You can buy a multi car insurance where you have one insurance for both cars but only some companies allow combining of both. Else they will just use the higher one i presume. 

[Linas.P]

I think it would be better to look at it as attached "to the policy", so it is neither driver nor a car. As well you can't build NCB on separate policies at the same time e.g. if you were to insure 5 cars for 1 year with different providers, at the end of the year that doesn't mean you have 5 years NCB... it means you have 5 policies with 1 year of NCB each. So in general you can have multiple NCB accumulated on different policies if you had them in parallel, but they should not overlap. Although I have done it for just couple of months overlap, basically I had 3 years on one policy and then started separate policy 2 month before first one ended (because that company could not insure me) and when it came for renewal  on second policy I asked to combine my now 4 years on previous policy and 1 that I got with new policy for total 5 years. As well in theory you can "seed" 2 policies from same NCB e.g. if you had 5 year NCB on one policy and then go to insure with different company you can say you have 5 years NCB (because you will be able to prove it with NCB letter), then if 6 months later you buy different car and use completely different company on separate policy (this could happen if company you already using refuses to insure the car or just gives stupid quote), then you can use same NCB with different company and have 5 years discount on both. NCB protection and accident reporting is whole separate minefield, so I don't even want to start that topic.

But yes - most simply NCB is gained "on policy" and expectation is that you should not have multiple parallel policies at the same time, else only one of them counts, but you can choose which one... so obviously you should choose the one with longest NCB.

I guess it kind of makes sense, if we accept that insurance in UK doesn't make sense to begin with... why is it the drive that is insured and not a car like in any normal country?! Why does for home insurance you insure the home and not the occupant, but for the car somehow that is the driver that needs insurance, yet the driver who does have insurance can't drive any car either...

 

[Notamech]

I agree it does not make sense at all. A no claims discount in my understanding is a discount because you areconsidered a safe / experienced driver as you haven't crashed all these years so you're statistically at a lower risk of crashing - so it should be tied to the driver. Not like im safer in one car vs another.

They cartelised and just made up the rules as they went along. 

[GMB]

You can discuss it until the cows come home. The simple fact is that they just want to cheat and rob you.

A good friend just got a £42000 bill for medical help while in the USA. They said he had undeclared pre-existing medical conditions =insurance void💩. With the ombudsman at the moment.

Edited August 17, 2023 by ColinBarber
Swearing, blasphemy or profanity – either explicitly or by trying to deceive our profanity filter – will be edited or deleted without warning or notice and may lead to the member being banned from using the forum and / or banned from the club.

[GMB]

56 minutes ago, GMB said:

You can discuss it until the cows come home. The simple fact is that they just want to cheat and rob you.

A good friend just got a £42000 bill for medical help while in the USA. They said he had undeclared pre-existing medical conditions =insurance void💩. With the ombudsman at the moment.

Now I get a telling off for calling Insurance companies bad names. Lets just say I don't trust  Insurance companies. They are a load of "not nice persons".  Happy?😷

Sorry about the naughty word regarding insurance companies. After two weeks of severe gout and just had a couple of beers I can get a bit grumpy. The gout is relenting a bit now - thanks for asking🤒

[steve2006]

Allopurinol tablet anyone? 

[Malc1]

and ...................  NCB / NCD can be a max of 9 years or 16 years to reflect when and with whom one transfers .......... and if you've earnt that on any policy and your taking out anew with a different insurer then they will ( often ) reflect what you have already earnt elsewhere, such benefaction to make you feel good ! ...............  they simply make it all up as they go along I'm sure 

Might be the attitude of the caller ( you ) when you make that call and of course, if the insurance sales agent had a good night and feeling on happy top Form

it's a lottery which one rarely wins eh !

Malc

[Dells]

10 hours ago, steve2006 said:

Allopurinol tablet anyone? 

No thanks I take two a day already, gout in both hand’s doctors say because I have had a kidney removed and the other one can’t get rid of the acid that causes gout ( uric) I think it’s called.

GMB I know how you feel gout is very painful, having it in my hands causes me lots of problems repairing antique clocks.

Dell

[Tony1452]

Just my opinion, but I feel that there’s a need for motor insurance costs to be fairly regulated. Last year, Toyota charged me £425. This year it was £572. Admittedly I had a new windscreen fitted, but it was still a big increase to my current premium.

[Notamech]

I agree. Personally I think the Australian model is great where compulsory 3rd party is covered by the government as part of the registration / tax or whatever you pay when you register the car and the only insurance people purchase is the optional first party. Its somewhat like how healthcare works with the NHS here

Given that insurance is compulsory and we only have profit oriented private players to choose from opens us up to exploitation just like healthcare in America. 

[Tony1452]

30 minutes ago, Notamech said:

I agree. Personally I think the Australian model is great where compulsory 3rd party is covered by the government as part of the registration / tax or whatever you pay when you register the car and the only insurance people purchase is the optional first party. Its somewhat like how healthcare works with the NHS here

Given that insurance is compulsory and we only have profit oriented private players to choose from opens us up to exploitation just like healthcare in America. 

Imagine them trying to introduce that here, the  underwriters and the brokers would be lobbying the politicians and palms would be more than greased.  Like you say, we are being exploited in this country. 

[GMB]

On 8/18/2023 at 8:29 AM, Dells said:

No thanks I take two a day already, gout in both hand’s doctors say because I have had a kidney removed and the other one can’t get rid of the acid that causes gout ( uric) I think it’s called.

GMB I know how you feel gout is very painful, having it in my hands causes me lots of problems repairing antique clocks.

Dell

Thanks kindly for the sympathy Derek. Yes, you have to be careful of Kidney damage so I just suffer it.  One side effect is that not being able to put a shoe on and with the swelling and pain too, I cannot ride the motorbike because I cannot change gear😥

All those ripoff insurance payments and it is stuck in the garage!☹️

[Mr_Groundhog]

On 8/19/2023 at 8:51 PM, Tony1452 said:

Imagine them trying to introduce that here, the  underwriters and the brokers would be lobbying the politicians and palms would be more than greased.  Like you say, we are being exploited in this country. 

Lots of people in the UK simply enjoy getting ripped off... Because to them "the market" is a perfect God of sorts and they'd dub the Australian model "unacceptable Socialism!". 
As we know, SouthWestern Rail had to be brought back into public hands because its management could not be trusted and the water companies are doing a sterling job to prove they can't be trusrted either. This insurance hike and its obscure T&Cs must be "the market" self-regulating to a "perfect balance" where "all players are happy"  🙄