Painted Callipers, what a ballache

[HoofHearted]

Got a 2015 IS300h, got the callipers painted last year and they look great. Trouble is, the insurance companies I’ve checked with, in their infinite wisdom have decided painted callipers are a mod. Renewal quotes are bad as it is but with callipers “declared as a mod” it’s eye watering amounts.

looking to get the paint removed from the callipers but hearing the callipers would rust afterwards if they weren’t just repainted another colour? 

 

can anybody advise if they’ve done similar (unlikely to be anyone as daft as me but you never know)

thanks in advance. 

[Notamech]

If you're stripping the paint perhaps recolor it silver or maybe even just with high temp lacquer to protect the caliper. This is really getting crazy with insurance now with stupid things being classed as a mod. What next waxing your car is a declarable mod? 

BBC News - Insurance row over vicar's Jesus ***** car stickers
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-31064998

[HoofHearted]

12 hours ago, Notamech said:

If you're stripping the paint perhaps recolor it silver or maybe even just with high temp lacquer to protect the caliper. This is really getting crazy with insurance now with stupid things being classed as a mod. What next waxing your car is a declarable mod? 

BBC News - Insurance row over vicar's Jesus ***** car stickers
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-31064998

Hate them with a passion mate. Points are on your license for three years but they’re allowed to demand to know about them for five.

They literally can and do make it up as they go along, not paying out for any excuse and potentially bankrupting people in the process.

unfortunatley can’t have them painted in any way shape or form. Can you tell me more about high temp lacqeur? Would this stop them from rusting?

[Notamech]

Btw i looked into this a bit more and turns out not all insurance companies care about paint on calipers. Perhaps dont declare it when getting a quote and then call the company whose quote you like and ask them if its declarable and how much it would affect your quote before purchasing. Unfortunately the companies dont do much to clarify what is declareable and what is not at time of purchase. 

Also yes. Clear lacquer should help protect the bare metal. I always thought that the calipers on premium cars are not just bare metal and that its silver paint or some sort of coating that comes from the factory. I could be wrong though. But if it is bare metal high temp lacquer should help protect it. Something like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tech-Xtremely-Temperature-LACQUER-Exhaust/dp/B00ZXZP480/ref=asc_df_B00ZXZP480/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310513207083&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5557811078190784502&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046083&hvtargid=pla-435342569741&psc=1

[Bluemarlin]

46 minutes ago, Notamech said:

 

Also yes. Clear lacquer should help protect the bare metal. I always thought that the calipers on premium cars are not just bare metal and that its silver paint or some sort of coating that comes from the factory. I could be wrong though.

I don't know if factory calipers are coated or not, but mine are 13 years old and aren't rusting.  As a precaution I've taken to spraying them (and the rest of the brake parts) with Atom Mac after each wash, which is a water based corrosion inhibitor that's safe to use on brakes.

https://bilthamber.com/product/atom-mac/

[HoofHearted]

1 hour ago, Notamech said:

Btw i looked into this a bit more and turns out not all insurance companies care about paint on calipers. Perhaps dont declare it when getting a quote and then call the company whose quote you like and ask them if its declarable and how much it would affect your quote before purchasing. Unfortunately the companies dont do much to clarify what is declareable and what is not at time of purchase. 

Also yes. Clear lacquer should help protect the bare metal. I always thought that the calipers on premium cars are not just bare metal and that its silver paint or some sort of coating that comes from the factory. I could be wrong though. But if it is bare metal high temp lacquer should help protect it. Something like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tech-Xtremely-Temperature-LACQUER-Exhaust/dp/B00ZXZP480/ref=asc_df_B00ZXZP480/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310513207083&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5557811078190784502&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046083&hvtargid=pla-435342569741&psc=1

Thanks mate appreciate it.

 

it’s just ridiculous it’s classed as a mod. Can’t take any chances so just going to do bare metal I think.

 

can anyone tell me if IS callipers come painted as standard? For the life of me I can’t remember.

thanks for all the input lads

[MrTrendizzle]

18 hours ago, Notamech said:

If you're stripping the paint perhaps recolor it silver or maybe even just with high temp lacquer to protect the caliper. This is really getting crazy with insurance now with stupid things being classed as a mod. What next waxing your car is a declarable mod? 

BBC News - Insurance row over vicar's Jesus ***** car stickers
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-31064998

I rang my insurance company and they asked me if i had any mods. I declared my stickers that my kids applied to the rear window and informed them that the sticker collection will grow and i do NOT wish for them to be insured, just noted on the policy to remain legal.
Same with my exhaust. Instead of insuring my exhaust i have it listed as "Exhaust system changes" rather than custom built exhaust worth £500+ which kept my premiums down.

As another note, front lip, rear valance and sideskirts are 3 separate mods but if you declare them as a "bodykit" it counts as one and leaves you room to add arch flairs or canads etc... Admiral seem pretty cool with what i've declared and i even sent them pictures of my mods to clarify what i've put was acceptable.

[steve2006]

It just gets worse! Rusty callipers could therefore be viewed as a failure to ensure your car is properly maintained invalidating your insurance next then?

[agent_dess]

WT Fudge!!

How's on earth is painting caliper classed as a mod???

I didn't realise you would gain 30HP by doing so 😂😂😂

But seriously, you are painting to 

1) protect from rust

2) improve visual appearance of car

So by definition you can have any colour as long as its silver??? How is that any different from Painting it red, black, blue, orange???

And if you have to replace calipers..it will come in a finished.. you guesses it.. Silver

Insurance companies need an overhaul!!

[Brian R]

This nonsense dreamt up (or so it seems) by insurance companies has often left me wondering as to whether there is any lawful validity to some of the suggested absurdities of motor insurance. I do feel that in a court of law, an insurance company would be hard pushed to justify the non-payment of a claim based on, for example, the colour of a brake caliper, but I stand to be corrected.

 

[rayaans]

I wouldn't declare these little things. Especially stickers or painted calipers. They will put everything down as a mod to shaft you. 

Half the time they don't even inspect the vehicle after a claim anyway 

[Mr Vlad]

As above. Seconded.

[Mumfo]

What a joke these insurance companies are becoming. It’s a mater of fact from the day you insure a vehicle it is modified, be it mileage, tyre wear and the like. Get real Mr Insurance Companies 

[Bluemarlin]

Whilst insurance companies are no doubt profiteering, there are a number of factors outside of their control that don't look like changing anytime soon.

Firstly, there are still parts shortages post covid, which not only increases the cost of parts, but lengthens the repair time. This in turn lengthens the amount of time a hire car is needed, which adds a signiificant cost to the repair bill.

Secondly, used car prices are still very high, which means payouts are much higher for write offs.

Some pressure needs to be put on insurance companies to not take advantage, which of course people can do by either switching or pushing for a reduction, but I'm not sure what (if anything) can be done about the other external factors.

[Guest]

On 7/30/2023 at 2:08 PM, Bluemarlin said:

Whilst insurance companies are no doubt profiteering, there are a number of factors outside of their control that don't look like changing anytime soon.

Firstly, there are still parts shortages post covid, which not only increases the cost of parts, but lengthens the repair time. This in turn lengthens the amount of time a hire car is needed, which adds a signiificant cost to the repair bill.

Secondly, used car prices are still very high, which means payouts are much higher for write offs.

Some pressure needs to be put on insurance companies to not take advantage, which of course people can do by either switching or pushing for a reduction, but I'm not sure what (if anything) can be done about the other external factors.

Bill I think you are in "defending the indefensible" territory. How do we put pressure on insurance companies to not take advantage when they are all at it? 

Graeme, personally I would retract the statement that you painted the calipers, or if unhappy with that, repaint them the original/matching colour. 

Insurance companies are effectively legalised gambling, and yet we all have to be honest and straight with them. And that plays out when you need to make a genuine claim, doesn't it?!

[Linas.P]

On 7/28/2023 at 8:38 PM, HoofHearted said:

Got a 2015 IS300h, got the callipers painted last year and they look great. Trouble is, the insurance companies I’ve checked with, in their infinite wisdom have decided painted callipers are a mod. Renewal quotes are bad as it is but with callipers “declared as a mod” it’s eye watering amounts.

looking to get the paint removed from the callipers but hearing the callipers would rust afterwards if they weren’t just repainted another colour? 

 

can anybody advise if they’ve done similar (unlikely to be anyone as daft as me but you never know)

thanks in advance. 

Nonsense - simply ignore that.

Ain't nobody can tell me painted caliper is mod. What else - refurbished wheels is mod as well, what if I had hole in exhaust and replaced section with stainless steel, is that a mod as well!? Idiotic. 

Do not declare it as a mod and you won't have issues, and as well don't look for the issues where there are none. I mean sure - if you answer the question "is you car modified" as "yes" and when they ask "what is your modification" you will say it is "brake caliper", then they will assume it is either coated is something very expensive, thus significantly changing the value of the car, or because it was modified there is a risk that your brakes will stop functioning... and thus risk is much higher. So it is either cost or risk that matters, not looks. 

So the issue stems from your misunderstanding what modification is, or insurance companies incorrectly explaining it to you. Something that does not alter value or performance of your car is not A MOD, end of the story. So when asked "whenever your car is modified in any way" your answer should be NO.

In hypothetical scenario where you have an accident, and in hypothetical scenario where they say "we can see your callipers are painted and you have not declared it as a mod" - your answer should be - "they are not painted and it is not a mod"... if the continue to insist "yes but they are red", then you answers is "they were always red, as long as I owned the car, maybe they were refurbished at some point, I don't know, but refurbishment is not mod either - pyppppsss off".

Now I am not just spit balling... I had accident, I had my car written-off, I have it inspected and valued by insurance company and by the claims management company, so twice... I had GOLDEN brake callipers and GOLDEN, drilled and slotted discs and there were no comments about it. Conclusion - colour is not a mod!

Obviously, if you fitted clearly much much bigger or smaller brakes, like some ridiculous racing spec. 8 piston StopTec or Willwood callipers, then yes - this would be a mod, because those callipers alone are £8000 and that is double the price of the car, so if you turn around and ask insurance company to cover that, they may turn around as say - this was not declared, so it is not covered. Not really that invalidates the cover, it is just not covered in itself. 

Simple advise - read your insurance contract and provide only as much information as STRITLY required, nothing more! Being economical with truth is the way to go, DO NOT lie, especially where it is very obvious and easy to check, but do not voluntarily tell all there is to know, only as much as strictly mentioned in the contract, and something that cannot be interpreted in any other way. If contract says you have to declare mods, then we can interpret mods any way we like and it is not breach of contract. Only provable lies could invalidate the contract. Now if they strictly ask the question "what colour is your calipers and is this original colour", sure - then you have to say "they are red and it is NOT original colour", but I am yet to see such contract where this is being asked. However, if this is not being asked, then you don't need to tell them that. 

I can as well use following analogy - imagine coming to police officer and asking "what is considered to be a weapon? would the knife be a weapon? how long - 5" inches? what about pipe? what about broken bottle? a wrench? ahh okey - so you saying wrench is okey?" What do you expect to happen? Surely, you would be arrested just on suspicion alone, whereas what actually happened is simply that you had a barbeque and you had small pocket knife to cut the sausages and that is it. Police officer probably didn't even care about it and even if he would have asked why you have a knife, the explanation that you preparing for barbeque and probably obvious evidence that you have grill on fire and getting hot would be sufficient explanation. So do not create problems by asking questions that could be misunderstood and then used against you. 

[Notamech]

2 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Nonsense - simply ignore that.

Ain't nobody can tell me painted caliper is mod. What else - refurbished wheels is mod as well, what if I had hole in exhaust and replaced section with stainless steel, is that a mod as well!? Idiotic. 

Do not declare it as a mod and you won't have issues, and as well don't look for the issues where there are none. I mean sure - if you answer the question "is you car modified" as "yes" and when they ask "what is your modification" you will say it is "brake caliper", then they will assume it is either coated is something very expensive, thus significantly changing the value of the car, or because it was modified there is a risk that your brakes will stop functioning... and thus risk is much higher. So it is either cost or risk that matters, not looks. 

So the issue stems from your misunderstanding what modification is, or insurance companies incorrectly explaining it to you. Something that does not alter value or performance of your car is not A MOD, end of the story. So when asked "whenever your car is modified in any way" your answer should be NO.

In hypothetical scenario where you have an accident, and in hypothetical scenario where they say "we can see your callipers are painted and you have not declared it as a mod" - your answer should be - "they are not painted and it is not a mod"... if the continue to insist "yes but they are red", then you answers is "they were always red, as long as I owned the car, maybe they were refurbished at some point, I don't know, but refurbishment is not mod either - pyppppsss off".

Now I am not just spit balling... I had accident, I had my car written-off, I have it inspected and valued by insurance company and by the claims management company, so twice... I had GOLDEN brake callipers and GOLDEN, drilled and slotted discs and there were no comments about it. Conclusion - colour is not a mod!

Obviously, if you fitted clearly much much bigger or smaller brakes, like some ridiculous racing spec. 8 piston StopTec or Willwood callipers, then yes - this would be a mod, because those callipers alone are £8000 and that is double the price of the car, so if you turn around and ask insurance company to cover that, they may turn around as say - this was not declared, so it is not covered. Not really that invalidates the cover, it is just not covered in itself. 

Simple advise - read your insurance contract and provide only as much information as STRITLY required, nothing more! Being economical with truth is the way to go, DO NOT lie, especially where it is very obvious and easy to check, but do not voluntarily tell all there is to know, only as much as strictly mentioned in the contract, and something that cannot be interpreted in any other way. If contract says you have to declare mods, then we can interpret mods any way we like and it is not breach of contract. Only provable lies could invalidate the contract. Now if they strictly ask the question "what colour is your calipers and is this original colour", sure - then you have to say "they are red and it is NOT original colour", but I am yet to see such contract where this is being asked. However, if this is not being asked, then you don't need to tell them that. 

I can as well use following analogy - imagine coming to police officer and asking "what is considered to be a weapon? would the knife be a weapon? how long - 5" inches? what about pipe? what about broken bottle? a wrench? ahh okey - so you saying wrench is okey?" What do you expect to happen? Surely, you would be arrested just on suspicion alone, whereas what actually happened is simply that you had a barbeque and you had small pocket knife to cut the sausages and that is it. Police officer probably didn't even care about it and even if he would have asked why you have a knife, the explanation that you preparing for barbeque and probably obvious evidence that you have grill on fire and getting hot would be sufficient explanation. So do not create problems by asking questions that could be misunderstood and then used against you. 

I second this. I called my insurance company and they do not consider it a mod infact when buying new insurance online if you look at the mods section there is no option for coloured calipers. Also if you select brakes they will assume you mean the brakes have been upgraded not painted. Also as an average joe i cant be expected to know everything that counts as a mod unless the insurance company clearly spell it out or make a list of everything. In fact my insurance company didn't even charge me for having F-sport alloys on the executive. They were like as long as its original lexus wheels we dont care. Where as if i declared this mod on a comparison site like you say the prices were eye watering. Also sounds like you can play dumb about small things like alloy wheels etc. and get away with it if you want to. Ofcourse if it was a major mod like wrapping your car in a different color or a loud exhaust etc. where it would be easy to prove you deliberately hid information you cant play dumb. See case study 5 in the motor insurance section of the financial ombudsman website. So clearly there is precedent. 

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/data-insight/insight/insight-in-depth-underinsurance-misrepresentation-non-disclosure

[Linas.P]

1 minute ago, Notamech said:

I second this. I called my insurance company and they do not consider it a mod infact when buying new insurance online if you look at the mods section there is no option for coloured calipers. Also if you select brakes they will assume you mean the brakes have been upgraded not painted. Also as an average joe i cant be expected to know everything that counts as a mod unless the insurance company clearly spell it out or make a list of everything. In fact my insurance company didn't even charge me for having F-sport alloys on the executive. They were like as long as its original lexus wheels we dont care. Where as if i declared this mod on a comparison site like you say the prices were eye watering. Also sounds like you can play dumb and get away with it if you want to. See case study 5 in the motor insurance section of the financial ombudsman website. 

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/data-insight/insight/insight-in-depth-underinsurance-misrepresentation-non-disclosure

I had same F-Sport wheels on my mk2 SE-L at the same time when I had golden calipers and car was written-off and that wasn't picked-up either. So I have no doubt you would be fine with that on mk3 and they won't say anything about it, I reckon 99% of insurance inspectors would not even know which Lexus trim had which wheels fitted. Now many years ago when I had those wheels, I called the insurance company not disclosing my name or policy number and asked if that would be considered mod - and they told me "are they original Lexus and/or they are of the same specification/size? YES that is fine, no need to declare". Now sure that is 1 insurance company and 1 person, so hence I always advise to consult the small print your insurance company provides to be safe, but in my experience that would be the case for most of insurance companies.

As I said and as well as you said - unless it is spelled out exactly what things the company considers "mods" there is very little that can be proven one way or another. Same as in the article you listed above - the default answer will be "perhaps it was not clear enough what counts as a mod so customer cannot be expected to know". And yes I am sure that if asked the insurance companies will try to shift this responsibility on customer, but they can't... they already operate in grey area and very close to the line of outright fraudulent. 

And finally, you again right - pleading ignorance works 99% of the time. Unless something is obvious, or unless there is something that would make car unsafe or un-roadworthy (like example of tinted headlights), simply saying "it was there when I bought it" exonerates you. Because there are so many things that could be not original on cars, yet are not considered modification (prime example tyres), that there is no way for everyone to know, or for insurance companies to provide the list, because then they would need to name basically very single part out of 40,000 parts that goes into the car. 

[agent_dess]

I had another thought that came to mind about bthis stupid stupid caliper painting rule insurance companies have...

Changing brake pads to non-oem surely must be classed as a modification in their stupid books

😂

[ColinBarber]

9 hours ago, agent_dess said:

I had another thought that came to mind about bthis stupid stupid caliper painting rule insurance companies have...

Changing brake pads to non-oem surely must be classed as a modification in their stupid books

😂

Cosmetic and performance changes are what they are most interested in. Changing pads isn’t an issue provided they are suitable for the vehicle. 

[agent_dess]

12 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Cosmetic and performance changes are what they are most interested in. Changing pads isn’t an issue provided they are suitable for the vehicle. 

I was being sarcastic 😂

Besides surely painting the caliper you are protecting them from the rust and thus ensuring optimal braking performance. 🫠

[Notamech]

37 minutes ago, agent_dess said:

I was being sarcastic 😂

Besides surely painting the caliper you are protecting them from the rust and thus ensuring optimal braking performance. 🫠

In their infinite wisdom they would argue that it makes your car look fancier and hence more attractive to thieves. 

[Poundy]

I think we may misinterpret the reason for the cost increase and the reason for the declaration of upgraded items. Like fitting larger quality painted wheels, or expensive aftermarket upgraded painted calipers, is a different ball game to painting your own fitted items. The extra premium is for no other reason than to offset the likelihood of the insurer having a higher pay out to replace the non standard Items. Therefore not declaring none safety or vehicle performance affecting items should not affect any claim other than them only reimbursing you for the OE item value.

Also unless you have owned the car from new it would be hard to know every mod a number of previous owner's had performed over the years and an impossible task for insurers to police.

Eg: When I approached my Insurance company about a full body ceramic coating and front end protective film put on one of my cars. I was told if I declared it I would incur a £100 increase in premium but should I not declare it (which I didn't) In the event of accident damage the car would only be repaired to OE quality finish and any additional ceramic or film would be left to me and the body shop to resolve. 

Get what you pay for I guess lol!

But painting anything that may suffer corrosion is good car maintenance and not a modification.

 

 

 

[Linas.P]

Some have said that insurance companies where not happy with performance pads (specifically EBC Yellowstuff/Redstuff), but again I just can't see how they would be able to argue that case. The pads are listed with the vehicle as compatible, it is not for them to decide what "compatible" means. Sure if the owner themselves decide to fit the pad that is not compatible then they can say this has compromised the safety of the car, but at the same time one would expect the car would not pass MOT. However, if manufacturer states they are compatible, car passes MOT (and is otherwise road legal), then it does not matter what insurance company thinks, they simply have no expertise in car design and thus have no say.

Now I am not saying they won't try, but people just need to stick to their "guns" and ignore it. I think the only way these things can cause problems is if the owners themselves are unsure and when asked or challenged agrees they have not declared something. Legal perspective is important here... because there are key words that can invalidate insurance and cause trouble e.g. saying that you forgotten to tell, or that you did it recently and were planning to tell them about it is BAD! You would be basically admitting that you knew it is mod and you invalidate your insurance by not telling. But saying the car was like that when I bought it, or that the part was compatible with the car and it is not modification is fine - because in first instance you stating that basically you could not declare the mod because it is not clear it is a mod (as far as you know that may be original) and in second case you saying it is compatible aftermarket part, it is thus not a mod, does not need to be declared, now it is down to insurance to prove it is a mod, but on top of that that their terms and conditions clearly stated it is a mod, which lets face it is just impossible. 

What I am saying - think what you say before speaking with insurance and remember that they are waiting for you to make a mistake and admit something. So - know your mods, and know your story. Wheels - they are on the car when I bought it, pads, lines - just compatible stuff, road legal, not a mod, caliper paint - refurbished calipers fitted - no a mod. And always let them enquire first instead of listing everything, because if you list something, then you basically admitting you knew the part isn't what it suppose to be. And as funny as it sound - a lot depends on perspective, if you think something is a mod, but it isn't a mod, but you thought is a mod and you decided not to declare it, then that itself could invalidate insurance on the grounds that you were entering contract on bad faith, even if you wrongly believe it was something you need to declare. I mean I would like to see insurance company trying to invalidate insurance on such grounds, but in theory that is possible, because as well as saying you have to declare mods, policy usually says that it is made in good faith. So just think before saying something and if you don't know then better say nothing. 

Now to be fair, as mentioned previously - these are hypothetical scenarios raised by people who are overly sensitive and want to over-declare stuff that does not need to be declared. I have dealt with insurance companies quite a bit and they never ask such things and they never check them. There are some anecdotal experiences and stories about them being stupid, but this is very rare.

 

[ColinBarber]

20 minutes ago, Poundy said:

I think we may misinterpret the reason for the cost increase and the reason for the declaration of upgraded items. Like fitting larger quality painted wheels, or expensive aftermarket upgraded painted calipers, is a different ball game to painting your own fitted items. The extra premium is for no other reason than to offset the likelihood of the insurer having a higher pay out to replace the non standard Items.

Insurers rarely pay out for modifications even when declared unless you have a specific policy that covers them. The premium increases because the risk increases - with cosmetic upgrades it has the potential to attract more interest in the vehicle (both theft and people wanting to race). Repainting your callipers the same colour as factory isn't an issue (and shouldn't be declared), but painting them bright red is.

 

Adding a PPF increases labour just to remove it - that's why they increase premiums if you declare it, and if you don't they could give you a bill for the extra work needed. I've never heard of a standard policy replacing a PPF even if declared.