Braided lines

[Gretski]

Installed braided lines on the ISF.  It was the first time emptying out all the brake fluid when  changing the lines so bleeding took awhile as the brakes were still spongy after doing each caliper twice. I had to bleed the brakes with the engine running then that worked !!

I would say it feels 40-50% better than OEM but the ABS deffo kicks in a lot easier than before meaning more force is being applied.

[Jgtcracer]

33 minutes ago, Gretski said:

Installed braided lines on the ISF.  It was the first time emptying out all the brake fluid when  changing the lines so bleeding took awhile as the brakes were still spongy after doing each caliper twice. I had to bleed the brakes with the engine running then that worked !!

I would say it feels 40-50% better than OEM but the ABS deffo kicks in a lot easier than before meaning more force is being applied.

I don’t know these were available, the RCF ones must be similar?

[NemesisUK]

What does your insurer think to the modification? Mine refused to cover me if I did it on the Merc I had

[Gretski]

@Jgtcracer I'm not sure. They could be. I realised the front rear use same length lines which was new to me.

[Gretski]

@NemesisUK haven't told them to be honest. It's a popular mod most car enthusiast. Long as you buy from a good brand and its installed correctly will have no issues. Braking is more sensitive and stronger how I like it. 🤗

[NemesisUK]

37 minutes ago, Gretski said:

@NemesisUK haven't told them to be honest. It's a popular mod most car enthusiast. Long as you buy from a good brand and its installed correctly will have no issues. Braking is more sensitive and stronger how I like it. 🤗

I agree, a very reasonable modification for many valid reasons. In my case the front flexible pipes had perished so seemed a good time to 'upgrade'. Oh, no. Not according to my then insurers (Direct Line) who said they would refuse to cover me if I fitted braided pipes as it would label me as an enthusiastic/aggressive driver and a greater risk. Fitting lowered coil-over suspension only incurred a £50 increase in premium. Perhaps it was a 'mod to far' ...

[Gretski]

@NemesisUK  deffo recommended to fit. Pretty rare for braided lines to be to cause issues so I wouldn't even bother informing them. I have a friend who tracks his GTR but hasn't told insurance about his insurance about them. So if he can take the risk with a £40k car then I think I can lol. I think things like tints ,wheels, engine mods are more of a thing to tell insurance 

[Linas.P]

On 7/12/2023 at 7:28 AM, NemesisUK said:

What does your insurer think to the modification? Mine refused to cover me if I did it on the Merc I had

I cannot see any valid reason for them to know about it, so I would not mention it at all. If they would ever ask or had any issues about it - 1) I would say I have no idea about it - they are just brake lines fitted in place of brake lines and thus not a "modification" and 2) it is simply OEM+ - old lines perished and were replaced by new, braided or non-braided who knows, they were right specification so were fitted. Nowhere in the insurance contract does it say that only genuine parts should be used, only that car has to be road worthy. What counts of modification is really grey area and unless specifically mentioned i.e. "braided brake lines are considered a modifications under our underwriters policy" then I would always default as considering them NON-modification. Obviously some common sense applies - there are many things that insurance does not mention specifically but are known to invalidate the cover - good example are tinted lights. As well "appeal to ignorance" argument works quite well - "they were there when I bought the car and I thought they were original, how do I know that is mod"? Not telling them would invalidate the contract, but they can't invalidate your contract for not knowing what is under your car. Now again and again common sense matters - it is valid argument to say you don't know the difference between braided and non-braided line, but it would be thought to argue that one didn't notice 5L V8 instead of 2.2L engine under the bonnet, or solid black headlights which do not emit any light and have no place to be on any car ever. And as well, they will never check mods unless you are involved in accident with "casualties"... at which point such details are least of my worries (in my opinion). That is not something they going to routinely check, nor they going to do it as part of evaluation if somebody going to bump into the back of you. 

Same like I see no reason to tell insurance that I fitted Michelin PS4 tyres over much worse Bridgestone Turanzas (arguably magnitude of times more impactful improvement than braided lines), nor people tell insurance when they put on china-shaite-town-30000-ditch-finders-fast-speed-guarnteed-death-road tyres on their cars, which are outright terrifying and makes car impossible to control at any speed above walking pace.

I can see where lowering springs could be considered a modification, as poorly done they could unsettle the car, same for any mods that adds power, speed etc. same for ridiculously out of spec too large or too small wheels, but something minute like brake lines, especially where they are higher than OEM spec isn't even a mod. Now sure I can see argument that if your brake line explodes that most likely not going to help you stop in time, but braided lines kind of reduces that risk, not increases it. And if not for bright lime colour I doubt many would even know. So perhaps getting black braided lines would be advisable if insurance is of any concern.

In short - everyone to their own, but myself I tell insurers strictly as little as they need to know and not a word more. Before doing that, make sure to read the contract to know what "as little" actually is.

[BillNick]

I agree. When I decide whether or not to tell insurance, I think "what would the engineer be able to spot in the event of an accident inspection"

If not blindingly obvious or looks OEM anyway, then don't bother.

Fitted braided lines to my IS200 and performance was noticeably different, I like a firm pedal as do you. But then again, keeping the fluid fresh can achieve this on some cars.

[Gretski]

@Linas.P couldn't have agreed more. I class it as such a small mod for big gains no need to inform insurers it's not that much of a big deal lol.  Thanks for the informative write up! Hopefully future owners will have more courage to this without the worry