BMW puts its eggs in the Hydrogen basket!

[Mincey]

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=b57ff263daa8e5f9JmltdHM9MTY4ODQyODgwMCZpZ3VpZD0wYjNhZjhiMy05NGU3LTYxMzgtM2UzZS1lYjkwOTUyNzYwMGQmaW5zaWQ9NTUwMA&ptn=3&hsh=3&fclid=0b3af8b3-94e7-6138-3e3e-eb909527600d&psq=telegraph+bmw+hydrogen&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubXNuLmNvbS9lbi1nYi9jYXJzL25ld3MvYm13LWJldHMtb24taHlkcm9nZW4taW4tYmF0dGxlLXdpdGgtbXVzay1zLXRlc2xhL2FyLUFBMWRvaFhw&ntb=1

I'd still never be seen in one, mind...

[Sundance]

Hi James, I'm afraid that rather extended link doesn't work for me, not sure if it will for others but I may be wrong 🤔 .

Either way it looks like a Telegraph piece for which you have to subscribe (and pay?) before reading on 👎 .

That said, I'm guessing that the thrust behind your post is for further R&D into hydrogen instead of electricity for vehicle power, a way forward with which I am in complete agreement.  Here's another link that will hopefully work ... and it's free ...

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/hydrogen-cars-could-soon-compete-180000216.html

[First_Lexus]

A new thread about hydrogen power…hmmm, what could possibly go wrong?

😇

[First_Lexus]

1 hour ago, Sundance said:

Hi James, I'm afraid that rather extended link doesn't work for me, not sure if it will for others but I may be wrong 🤔 .

Either way it looks like a Telegraph piece for which you have to subscribe (and pay?) before reading on 👎 .

That said, I'm guessing that the thrust behind your post is for further R&D into hydrogen instead of electricity for vehicle power, a way forward with which I am in complete agreement.  Here's another link that will hopefully work ... and it's free ...

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/hydrogen-cars-could-soon-compete-180000216.html

The link opens fine for me, in MSN news from a Daily Telegraph original article.

[Mincey]

12 hours ago, First_Lexus said:

A new thread about hydrogen power…hmmm, what could possibly go wrong?

😇

I did wonder whether it was wise. Here's a different link saying pretty much the same thing https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/business/bmw-punt-for-hydrogen-cars-2023-07/

As people will buy anything with a BMW, Audi or Mercedes logo on it, BMW investing in Hydrogen can only be a good thing for those of us better suited by non-electric modes of propulsion and it'll potentially stop lots of holes being dug in Cornwall.

[Shahpor]

4 hours ago, Mincey said:

I did wonder whether it was wise. Here's a different link saying pretty much the same thing https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/business/bmw-punt-for-hydrogen-cars-2023-07/

As people will buy anything with a BMW, Audi or Mercedes logo on it, BMW investing in Hydrogen can only be a good thing for those of us better suited by non-electric modes of propulsion and it'll potentially stop lots of holes being dug in Cornwall.

Hopefully it will ok this time as certain disruptive elements of this forum have now been removed 😉

It is cause for some cautious optimism as you say, however, since BMW are hedging their bets and still making quite a few pure EV's, I am not sure how many direct sales this will contribute to from the standard German car buyer.  After all, the most important part of the car is obviously the badge! 🙂

Funnily enough, the article alludes to BMW playing catch up to Tesla, which is not something I ever thought I would see.

What we really need is some sort of hydrogen consortium of companies that can pool their resources together and create the product and the infrastructure at the same time.  A bit like what they do when they want to introduce a new standard technology for computers e.g. USB, PCI-E, etc...  Get 4 or 5 major car manufacturers together with some oil/energy companies, mix in the most basic government oversight, and hash out a proper plan.  Can't see it happening anytime soon though..

[Mr Vlad]

Some very interesting links to interesting articles. Sorry Shahpor but BMW are Not hedging their bets on hydrogen. The author of that article admitted that was a wrong statement. 

I applaud BMW for their efforts in alternative energy for motor cars. How that top guy, Gunther was it?, said the hydrogen powered car would suit the car owner who doesn't have a drive or a parking space. Its excellent to finally see a major car manufacturer think about a car owner and their situations of parking etc.

I applaud you James for posting that link. It hopefully will open doors for other major car manufacturers to follow suit.

As for what VW stated. Very clever misleading yet again. For them to get a patent on a storage device in the hydrogen system for cars to me means they're really looking in to hydrogen for cars.

 

[First_Lexus]

https://news.sky.com/story/could-a-truck-thats-powered-by-hydrogen-and-only-emits-water-help-in-the-climate-change-fight-12916780

As the piece on Sky News TV notes, the issue with hydrogen as things stand is the amount of electricity needed to produce it. 

[Mr Vlad]

OMG even a hermit knows that production of hydrogen uses a helluva lot of electricity. So why waste time finding an article stating so. That's basically dirty hydrogen production using shed loads of electricity. Green hydrogen production is coming to the fore at a steady pace. 

I started the thread What's Wrong With electric cars. Then it was apt. It's still apt.

Let's hope this thread doesn't go down the same ending. 

 

[First_Lexus]

59 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

why waste time finding an article stating so.

Didn’t waste any time finding the article. It was on Sky News this morning. The date of the article is at the start, as it is on most mainstream news sites.

This thread isn’t about EVs, it’s about hydrogen. I thought it was relevant and might be interesting. Apologies if that it in some way offensive, it wasn’t intended to be. I certainly won’t be posting here again for some time.

[dutchie01]

I am honestly surprised that all this is such a polarised topic. So much emotion and i just cannot understand why. All of us are on this forum as we are interested in cars in general and Lexus in particular. The technical background i find fascinating but for some reason it seems not possible to even post one sentence about BEV or Hydro or whatever form of propulsion without torching a fire.

I do hope we can achieve a balanced factual exchange of thoughts.

[dutchie01]

Regarding BMW and hydro. All major car companies have been experimenting with this as they want to be ready when the market appears. Some ( BMW, Toyota) are more vocal and use it in marketing but for sure this is around the corner.

[VFR]

As far as I know LPG is seen as a green gas & that being the case why are we simply not transitioning across to using this more ?

Takes away the charging issue and range concerns, been used for decades in vehicles & as it comes from N-Gas is cheaper than other so called green fuels.

[Mr Vlad]

Re LPG VFR. A best friend of mine has his RX300 converted. He has been struggling to find a supplier of LPG since his local garage stopped selling it. He's found out that suppliers are getting thin on the ground and the price was going up quite rapidly. 

[Bluemarlin]

15 hours ago, VFR said:

As far as I know LPG is seen as a green gas & that being the case why are we simply not transitioning across to using this more ?

Takes away the charging issue and range concerns, been used for decades in vehicles & as it comes from N-Gas is cheaper than other so called green fuels.

I suspect it's because the overall drive is to move away from fossil fuels (clean or otherwise) and towards renewables.

It's likely that technology will improve significantly in the coming years, for both hydrogen production and distribution, and EV Battery production, range and charging. There's enormous money to be made in anything that could become mainstream, and so huge amounts of investment will be poured into solving current limitations.

[Mincey]

Bosch appear to be quite keen on the hydrogen idea too: https://www.theregister.com/2023/07/13/bosch_goes_allin_on_hydrogen/

[ganzoom]

Since random Internet posts seem to be the benchmark for 'facts' these days...

https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/transport/bosch-factory-may-be-closed-after-hydrogen-fuel-cell-plan-is-suspended-due-to-lack-of-customers/2-1-1473841

[ganzoom]

https://innovationorigins.com/en/first-shell-now-motive-hydrogen-fuel-station-closures-continue-in-the-uk/

 

[Shahpor]

To be fair, I don't consider a post with The Register as its source to be a 'random Internet post' since it is a trustworthy site that has been around for a very long time.  And yes, I have been getting the daily emails from them for at least the last 16 years!

Having said that, everybody appears to have an agenda these days, so who knows what is actually happening out there?

[ganzoom]

6 hours ago, Shahpor said:

To be fair, I don't consider a post with The Register as its source to be a 'random Internet post' since it is a trustworthy site that has been around for a very long time.  And yes, I have been getting the daily emails from them for at least the last 16 years!

Having said that, everybody appears to have an agenda these days, so who knows what is actually happening out there?

Bosche arent naive, given the history of Nikola, I suspect there will be pages of financial assurances and penalties linked with the 'All in' headlines. Unless some one has actually seen the contract I suspect its a much smaller initial financial commitment versus the sums quoted.

Do lepords change their spots? Not often, but Bosche presumably can afford the 'gamble'. 

https://fortune.com/2020/09/10/nikola-motor-stock-hindenburg-research-allegations/

[Mr Vlad]

Well I never. Can't remember where I read it but Shell (I think it's them) are going to trial sending Hydrogen down the gas network alongside the gas. Once near a fuel station  the addition of a much shorter pipe from the network to the station where the mixture would be treated as in separated. Gas back in the network and Hydrogen at a dispenser at the fuel station. 

Now someone out there has finally got sence to work. I hope the trial will be a resounding success. 

[Malc1]

57 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Can't remember where I read it but Shell (I think it's them) are going to trial sending Hydrogen down the gas network alongside the gas. Once near a fuel station  the

..........  then my ( re-badged Toyota from Japan )  Lexus Ls700 Hydrogen Power limo is maybe just around that corner ....... 🖕

Malc