Oh, the shame! Just paid someone to wash the car!

[Sundance]

17 minutes ago, LenT said:

I think Rowley is referring to the likes of Hand Washes that pop-up in Tesco car parks.  Unfortunately they do tend to be operated by predominantly Eastern European lads organised by someone who acts suspiciously like a ‘Gangmaster’.   

In terms of the potential damage to a car’s finish, there would be little to choose between them and a mechanical car wash.  Although the car wash doesn’t drop a drying towel on the concrete and then pick it up again to continue drying the car - as I watched one lad do!

You're quite right Len and I think that appreciation was well understood by Linas although I'm not quite sure why he decided to further focus on the origin of the workers involved because most of them actually are from Eastern Europe!  I know, because I've had very open and pleasant conversations with many of them.

And yes, I get your very valid point about the ineffectiveness of a cheap car wash and the potential of damage to the paintwork.  They don't really care, they just take the cash ... no credit/debit cards or online payment for them!  I wonder why? 🤫

[Sundance]

22 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

P.S. this is by the way my honest feedback. 

Are we therefore to presume that you are sometimes tempted to provide dishonest feedback? 🤔

Perish the thought eh? 😂

[Linas.P]

7 minutes ago, LenT said:

I think Rowley is referring to the likes of Hand Washes that pop-up in Tesco car parks.  Unfortunately they do tend to be operated by predominantly Eastern European lads organised by someone who acts suspiciously like a ‘Gangmaster’.   

In terms of the potential damage to a car’s finish, there would be little to choose between them and a mechanical car wash.  Although the car wash doesn’t drop a drying towel on the concrete and then pick it up again to continue drying the car - as I watched one lad do!

I think it is little bit ignorant if not a bit xenophobic way of looking at it. Not that it is untrue, it is likely true... I don't want to go into much details as there are many layers to unpick here, but I think my point here is that wash quality in many hand washes are horrible not because they are employing Eastern Europeans, which in itself is stereotype, because around me majority of hand wash places are specifically and increasingly non-European, nor I am saying that they don't employ them either, they indeed employ some.

My point is that poor quality of hand wash places are due to poor pay, hard work and low expectations... as such they usually attract people who have no language skills, transferable or technical skills and who probably don't have other opportunities at that moment in their life and that reflects on their care and dedication for work. And that is more important than the ethnicity, language or country from where the workers came from.

In short - I may have misread the meaning behind the statement (although this is not first time I am noticing it), but the reason I picked on it was because it sounded like poor quality was used as synonym with Easter Europeans. Which is just not true. 

As for specifically damage to the cars - automatic car washes are conclusively better than hand washes in that respect, there is no doubt about it. The only problem with automatic washes is that they skip thought entire areas of the car, so one ends-up with half washed car.

[Malc1]

Can’t believe this simple topic has got so “ heated “   Well I can really, people often get ired-up, irated  and irritated ……. must be living constantly “ on edge “ some of you guys here 😰

my EE bods hand held hose- down and soapy sponge produce a brilliant drive-off drip dry ……. Drying off Blowing in the wind blow job  too ….. the great advantage of my £4 occasional Event is it shifts all the crap and crud lodged in the wheel arches etc too 

I’m happy for sure 👍

Malc 

oh, and I pay cash, usually gold coloured coins of the realm  M 

[Linas.P]

19 minutes ago, Sundance said:

Are we therefore to presume that you are sometimes tempted to provide dishonest feedback? 🤔

No... but often I am just playing around for argument sake or just mocking people... I never said I am saint, nor am I trying to be "nice guy". For me it is more important to be objective than nice. By the way - I am applying same standard to myself, so I do check what I am saying to make sure it is as objective as it can be. Does not mean that I never get things wrong, I may use wrong source or I may misunderstand it, but I rarely just regurgitate yesterdays dish into the comment and expect other to figure out what I meant.

27 minutes ago, Sundance said:

I'm not quite sure why he decided to further focus on the origin of the workers involved

... because you repeatedly mentioned it as if it was important detail. Which I think is not important and I was not quite sure why you thought it was important to mention origin of the workers.

Besides as I said, I don't believe it is even true, at least not around where I live. Not majority, not predominantly, not usually... yes sometime some of them are... but then if we start listing all the countries I think before long we will have a list of 30+.

I guess it would be right to say that there is correlation - the poorer is the country, the more likely you to find it's citizen abroad in poorly paid job, but relatively speaking Eastern Europe is not the poorest region by long shot, nor UK is most attractive destination... at least not anymore.

[mr2lad]

I started training my youngster years ago when i had my LS600hL, 

sacked him tho when i got a black car 😂 

silver is more forgiving when missing parts when washing than a black car 😆 … his wage was the box of Pringles in pic 👍🏻

[Linas.P]

2 minutes ago, mr2lad said:

I started training my youngster years ago when i had my LS600hL, 

sacked him tho when i got a black car 😂 

silver is more forgiving when missing parts when washing than a black car 😆 … his wage was the box of Pringles in pic 👍🏻

Does it count as a child labour? 😄 

[mr2lad]

1 minute ago, Linas.P said:

Does it count as a child labour? 😄 

No because it was a full box of Pringles so was paying the going rate 😉

[Linas.P]

4 minutes ago, mr2lad said:

No because it was a full box of Pringles so was paying the going rate 😉

I am not sure if it is better or worse 😄 

Although, I must admit you were very brave keeping the window open! 

[Sundance]

18 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

Can’t believe this simple topic has got so “ heated “   Well I can really, people often get ired-up, irated  and irritated ……. must be living constantly “ on edge “ some of you guys here 😰

Sorry Malcolm, I've no doubt that you're referring to my interaction with my good friend Linas. It's purely an exchange between two people who choose not to understand each other. 🙄

That said, I must just clear up one mute point for the avoidance of any doubt. 👇

Nobody is suggesting that the low quality of "Tesco" or High Street car washes is because those that do the washing are from Eastern Europe. Furthermore, it's absolutely nothing to do with xenophobia and all who think otherwise are suffering from both ignorance and unenlightenment and need to educate themselves about the UK in the 21st Century. 😉

Now let's get back on topic ... apologies friends. 😊

[Malc1]

I was previously understanding that the battering the car gets from the auto car washes brushes might not do the paintwork any good ? 

Malc 

[Linas.P]

4 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

I was previously understanding that the battering the car gets from the auto car washes brushes might not do the paintwork any good ? 

Depends on car wash, many never cars washes have "soft bristles"... allegedly.

Ignoring the marketing speak, my personal experience and actually experience from few practical tests (I think 5th Gear did one... although not very scientific) was that automatic wash scratched the car less than hand wash. 

[mr2lad]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

I am not sure if it is better or worse 😄 

Although, I must admit you were very brave keeping the window open! 

I double taked on pic and it’s actually front wind deflectors 🙈

[Illogan]

Our lovely motor will be used as our daughter's 'wedding car' in a couple of weeks.

 

Having experienced a national franchise '4hr full external/internal wash, wax, hoover, headlining (etc) clean, I am convinced that a self-dedicated all-day wash/polish/buff and groan will certainly achieve a better result for the Grand Day.

But it will be an emotional dedication, for approaching my mid-70's, I'm aware that the after-effects will test my (immediately) previous resolve.

But we do, do, for our children, don't we (?)

 

 

[LenT]

52 minutes ago, Illogan said:

Our lovely motor will be used as our daughter's 'wedding car' in a couple of weeks.

I’m sure we all wish you sunshine and happiness for such a significant family event, Dave. 😊

[LenT]

2 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Ignoring the marketing speak, my personal experience and actually experience from few practical tests (I think 5th Gear did one... although not very scientific) was that automatic wash scratched the car less than hand wash.

After having my car ‘Detailed’ I was urged to avoid any further contact with the local garage-based car washes.  But you’re quite right Linus that many articles advise that because they use far more water they can be less damaging than a hand wash.

However, as my new mobile mate observed, car washes that use recycled water rely on the meticulous maintenance of the filters to eliminate microscopic grit particles.  And that is often not up to scratch - as one might say!

In addition, they use more aggressive detergents in the wash which will be more effective at removing wax finishes, for example.

And I’m sure we’ve all gone round the car afterwards dealing with the various areas that have been missed.

3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

My point is that poor quality of hand wash places are due to poor pay, hard work and low expectations... as such they usually attract people who have no language skills, transferable or technical skills and who probably don't have other opportunities at that moment in their life and that reflects on their care and dedication for work. And that is more important than the ethnicity, language or country from where the workers came from.

It happens to be the case that our two local, Tesco-based hand washes are indeed EE staffed.  But presumably that’s because they were smart enough to negotiate the franchise in the first place.  

I’m sure that no-one is suggesting that the individual’s ethnicity is the cause for concern.  Watching these lads in action, I would say it’s the time pressure they’re under.  After all, cars are left with them while the owners go shopping.  They then come out after, probably, less than thirty minutes and expect the car to be gleaming - and it usually is, despite the lad having to do, say, two or three (or even more!) in that time.  And as you rightly observe, their reward for all that effort is hardly likely to encourage a dedicated approach!

The fact that these operations are still in business simply shows that many motorists are perfectly happy with the results.  But then many motorists have their cars serviced by the likes of Halfords.

[LenT]

3 hours ago, Malc1 said:

I was previously understanding that the battering the car gets from the auto car washes brushes might not do the paintwork any good ? 

Malc 

Apparently,:modern washes use microfibre filaments which are claimed to be gentler in action and less likely retain the grit they’re supposed to be washing off - especially in view of the copious volumes of water they use.

Those who make them and install them certainly argue that they’re better than the ‘average’ hand wash.  In reality, it seems that the quality of their maintenance will greatly affect their performance.

But I think it’s fair to say that even these low-cost mobile operations are superior, simply because of the time they devote to the task and the expertise they apply to it.

I’m certainly a convert.  But will I burn my bridges and give away all my car wash kit?  Probably not…just in case!

[Linas.P]

9 hours ago, LenT said:

After having my car ‘Detailed’ I was urged to avoid any further contact with the local garage-based car washes.  But you’re quite right Linus that many articles advise that because they use far more water they can be less damaging than a hand wash.

However, as my new mobile mate observed, car washes that use recycled water rely on the meticulous maintenance of the filters to eliminate microscopic grit particles.  And that is often not up to scratch - as one might say!

In addition, they use more aggressive detergents in the wash which will be more effective at removing wax finishes, for example.

And I’m sure we’ve all gone round the car afterwards dealing with the various areas that have been missed.

I think my point was that both automatic and hand car washes have their own issues. Hand wash has potential to scratch the car more, the automatic wash just misses areas altogether. I personally would not advise either one as in my opinion both are bad. 

So what ate the options left? Do it yourself, or hire decent mobile detailer detailer to do it for you. The first option requires skill and physical fitness, the other option is generally quite expensive... but if you can do it for £40, then it is a steal. I do it myself because despite what some may say in my area that would cost over £150, if I had an option to do it for £40 I am sure that is what I would use quite often. Even if I have to walk around afterwards with MF and detailing spray to complete few small bits, that is still worth it.  

[Bluemarlin]

I used to use one of the hand car washes on a previous car, and it's true that the car would come away all shiny and clean for a few pounds.

The trouble is that the damage caused by any careless use of a pressure washer, and the aggressive cleaners they use to shift the dirt, doesn't show up immediately, and will pick up any weaknessess in the paint. After a couple of years I had areas of clearcoat peeling, which I'm convinced were caused by this.

I'd much rather someone else did the work of cleaning my car but, after that experience, I'm resigned to doing it myself. Once a year I apply a ceramic coating, and subsequent washes take less than an hour, so it's not too bad.

[Malc1]

37 minutes ago, Bluemarlin said:

After a couple of years I had areas of clearcoat peeling,

might just be showing the weaknesses in the " factory finish " ..  and knowing that the clearcoat is always going to be susceptible ........  after my understanding that so much touch-up and repair is done at the docks / quayside to all and any the imported cars before they get to the Main Dealer as pristine brand new unblemished spotless showroom cars !

They've often been thru' ta Mill before they get to that unsuspecting proud first time buyer 🙄

Malc

[LenT]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

I think my point was that both automatic and hand car washes have their own issues. Hand wash has potential to scratch the car more, the automatic wash just misses areas altogether. I personally would not advise either one as in my opinion both are bad. 

I think that sums it up pretty well, Linus.  And the fact that both systems flourish probably indicates that the ‘average’ motorist is perfectly content with a ‘clean and shiny’ car and less concerned with the finer nuances of attaining bodywork perfection.

Having said that, I can now provide an example that demonstrates the point.

For health reasons, Mrs T hasn’t driven her Suzuki 4x4 for nearly two years.  It’s barely moved off the drive.  But now that she’s taking it up again, the need is to remove the many muddy, cat paw marks that it has collected.  Which is why we’ve just returned from treating it to the top £10 car wash at the local BP station!

What hypocrisy, some might think.  But it’s the ten year old family work horse and as long as it’s ‘clean and shiny’ that’s all Mrs T demands.  Justifying any further investment involves a degree of debate that is ultimately not worth the effort.

Fortunately, she greatly approves of the Lexus, so I can spend what I like on it!

[Linas.P]

4 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

Main Dealer as pristine brand new unblemished spotless showroom cars !

You would be surprised how scratched-up some of the brand new cars are. people pay £500+ to get them detailed to really the condition they should be in. It is no longer 90s and not LS400 that came from factory wet sanded and polished to perfection. 

2 minutes ago, LenT said:

I think that sums it up pretty well, Linus.  And the fact that both systems flourish probably indicates that the ‘average’ motorist is perfectly content with a ‘clean and shiny’ car and less concerned with the finer nuances of attaining bodywork perfection.

Having said that, I can now provide an example that demonstrates the point.

For health reasons, Mrs T hasn’t driven her Suzuki 4x4 for nearly two years.  It’s barely moved off the drive.  But now that she’s taking it up again, the need is to remove the many muddy, cat paw marks that it has collected.  Which is why we’ve just returned from treating it to the top £10 car wash at the local BP station!

What hypocrisy, some might think.  But it’s the ten year old family work horse and as long as it’s ‘clean and shiny’ that’s all Mrs T demands.  Justifying any further investment involves a degree of debate that is ultimately not worth the effort.

Fortunately, she greatly approves of the Lexus, so I can spend what I like on it!

100% - detailing is hobby and to be fair not very logical one, because we basically trying to maintain something that sits outside to the such degree that it turns into mirror finish. Maintaining the car in perfect cosmetically condition requires a lot of work, experience and expense, yet it could be ruined by parking it under the tree once. From my experience I would say most of the cars are not even regularly washed, the already minority that are regularly washed are washed just to basically get them clean... and only few % are actually detailed and kept in good order, because very few people actually appreciates the shiny car. 

And obviously we can go into crazy detail of who and why don't care, but it is enough to say that is really minority who even thinks about the topic we discussing here.

So I kind of see both sides - I spend the amount of money and time detailing my car which I can't justify, but that is because I like having shiny car, yet I completely understand people who have daily driven cars, which for them are just appliance to go from A to B and then they just take them to regular car wash... and trust me that is already more care than 50% of owners would care to do. 

[LenT]

15 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

might just be showing the weaknesses in the " factory finish " ..  and knowing that the clearcoat is always going to be susceptible ........  after my understanding that so much touch-up and repair is done at the docks / quayside to all and any the imported cars before they get to the Main Dealer as pristine brand new unblemished spotless showroom cars !

They've often been thru' ta Mill before they get to that unsuspecting proud first time buyer 🙄

Malc

Yes, that seems to be very much the case, Malcolm.  Which is why - were I taking delivery of a brand new Lexus - I would take it straight to a professional Detailer for paint correction and a ceramic coating.  The cost represents a small percentage of the total investment but provides the ideal start to a long lasting finish.

[Malc1]

......  and then some bugger comes along overnight and try's to park on my rear bumper corner in his white car ......  well that's the copious amount of car white paint left behind by that bugger ....  whatever you do to your car one's at the mercy of the gods and those errant couldn't care less hidden motorists that don't care a hoot about others possessions and leave the scene of an avoidable accident under cover of .......  " not seen so it's OK to scarper "             syndrome

Washing ain't getting it right, nor copious amounts of polishing either .... aarrrggghhh !

Malc

[Linas.P]

21 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

well that's the copious amount of car white paint left behind by that bugger ...

Ohh don't even tell me about that... I had my car detailed just couple of weeks ago... not perfect, because it can't be perfect for 18 years old car, but it looked very nice from 5 metres away.... just to be "Frenched" in Britany. 

Some French bugger slammed the doors so hard into the side of my car that it literally dented the panel... nevermind copious amount of white paint... and obviously he is nowhere to be found, because in France that is not even considered an issue. 

Sorry I know I made big deal of mentioning Eastern Europeans, but French despite 1000 amazing qualities really do not care about their cars cosmetics, that is kind of their national thing. I know it is stereotype as well, so certainly not all of them, but they certainly care much less than Brits... Or maybe I am just salty because it is personal! 😄