Standing charge increases

[steve2006]

If you’ve ever wondered why the standing charge has increased so much and remains at the same cost even after the recent Ofgem unit price reduction the video link below, although from the USA,  may explain that. The grid requirements in the UK will also need upgrading to cope with demand for charging EVs.

Guess who’s now having to pay for it!
 

 

[Phil xxkr]

8 hours ago, steve2006 said:

If you’ve ever wondered why the standing charge has increased so much and remains at the same cost even after the recent Ofgem unit price reduction the video link below, although from the USA,  may explain that. The grid requirements in the UK will also need upgrading to cope with demand for charging EVs.

Guess who’s now having to pay for it!
 

 

Trific 😕, this is on top of paying for the failed energy suppliers such as Bulb 😱

[PaulWhitt20]

Oh, goody, another "Lets bash EVs thread"

[Moleman]

51 minutes ago, PaulWhitt20 said:

Oh, goody, another "Lets bash EVs thread"

What do you mean Paul? 😁

Something like this?

https://www.energylivenews.com/2023/06/27/evs-cause-twice-the-road-damage-of-petrol-vehicles-study-reveals/#:~:text=The study revealed that the,infrastructure%2C according to the report.

 

[steve2006]

1 hour ago, PaulWhitt20 said:

Oh, goody, another "Lets bash EVs thread"

Not my intention at all…..I’m from the generation that can remember electric milk floats that used lead acid batteries to deliver to your door in recyclable glass bottles.

I also remember the planned power cuts in the 1970s when due to industrial action there was not enough electricity being generated to satisfy demand.

EVs are a great idea but the infrastructure needed I.e. the power grid will not be able to cope without serious upgrading, investment and consumers having to pay for it all.

[Linas.P]

Indeed - this is not EV bash, it is bash on idiotic idea of banning internal combustion before making any steps to build infrastructure which could handle EVs and just expecting everything to sort itself out.

I personally have no issues with BEV, but I do believe they need to stand on their own two feet, without subsidies, without coercion... and if people still buy them and they work for them... perfect! Maybe one day they will be so good that people just going to prefer them over "outdated" ICEV and ICEV will naturally decline and disappear (same as steam engines disappeared in the past) - that is fine as well.

But every sane person understand that BEVs just don't work for most, so if left to their own natural evolution and adoption they won't get adapted even by the end of this century... what is the solution? Ban people form buying what they want and need... and then expecting everyone will be happy about it?

[toffee_pie]

Or this, but a mod won't publish it I guess

Everyone's getting bummed by the gov and for quite some time 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/07/01/politicians-forcing-electric-cars-public-doesnt-want-them/?gaa_at=la&gaa_n=AfHvTEvPILqDap0h7vS2C51ogldnvE_WlsNbe9ShKCrFzHLOc488vGKDgK80XHnpBBA%3D&gaa_ts=64a05ba8&utm_source=newsshowcase&utm_medium=discover&utm_campaign=CCwqFwgwKg4IACoGCAowm6R6MMKqCTDB3s8BMKHT5gE&utm_content=bullets&gaa_sig=gq2qWLRY37zYH3751Kezk0dO0Xw0q7fLUsAC2Nqs5qJKcyJFqcBC1jEYUy0ucoiZAcQyW2beemEfqCsrn041YA%3D%3D

[Cotswold Pete]

On 6/28/2023 at 11:00 AM, Linas.P said:

 without coercion...

We were coerced to go lead-free years ago, sometimes change needs to be driven by £££. 

But my view of EVs is not a bad idea, but not so sure they are the future, but if they can cut down pollution in towns then great (but does covering fields with Solar Panels and burning wood pellets - which are imported from USA really make for being really green).  It would some how be nice if we did not need to use our cars as much, but even if countries where Public Transport is top notch seems like us humans like our metal boxes.  Pretty sure when I retire I am not going to give up my V6 but just drive it less and avoid town centres as much as poss.

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, Cotswold Pete said:

We were coerced to go lead-free years ago, sometimes change needs to be driven by £££. 

But my view of EVs is not a bad idea, but not so sure they are the future, but if they can cut down pollution in towns then great (but does covering fields with Solar Panels and burning wood pellets - which are imported from USA really make for being really green).  It would some how be nice if we did not need to use our cars as much, but even if countries where Public Transport is top notch seems like us humans like our metal boxes.  Pretty sure when I retire I am not going to give up my V6 but just drive it less and avoid town centres as much as poss.

When it comes to lead free fuel... that was change basically at no cost to consumer, at no cost to manufacturers, no difference in refuelling and mostly compatible with all cars. Basically the lead was replaced with different additives. So it really was no brainer and that was very poisonous substance which was really used just for sake of being lazy and not wanting to change.

BEVs are huge change to everything, more expensive to consumer, very inconvenient to charge, as they stand new in dealerships they are factually much much more polluting and to really get benefit one must use them in quite specific way and for at least 80k miles before they really provide any benefits, and that is even ignoring unbelievable damage they cause to communities, all slave labour involved etc. So I just don't think that is comparable.

As well as for public transport - that is kind of the point, private car ownership is about convenience and even with the best public transport in the world I can't see myself sitting next to other stinky people, their stupid unruly kids etc. Having car is not about going from point A to point B (at least for me), not only it is more comfortable, but as well you are in control of when you go, where you go and what do you take with you... and public transport will never be able to match that.

[Spock66]

Nothing wrong with BEV's as part of an integrated transport policy, ideal for urban use.

Quite a lot wrong with saying BEV's are the only option.

[dutchie01]

2 hours ago, Linas.P said:

 

As well as for public transport - that is kind of the point, private car ownership is about convenience and even with the best public transport in the world I can't see myself sitting next to other stinky people, their stupid unruly kids etc. Having car is not about going from point A to point B (at least for me), not only it is more comfortable, but as well you are in control of when you go, where you go and what do you take with you... and public transport will never be able to match that.

Bang on Linas. I have not used public transport since i owned my first car 44 yrs ago and i do intend to keep it that way. 
 

[Cotswold Pete]

2 hours ago, Linas.P said:

 stinky people,

many moons ago used to get my Lexus serviced in Swindon then catch the bus to work, you had to hold your nose, as I assume some people (the night before) assumed the bus was a toilet.

and the other day caught train to London, GWR Hitachi beast, with seats less comfortable than concrete, had a back ache for a week afterwards, so more and more I find public transport is not only expensive but darned uncomfortable.

what we really need is a Star Trek transporter

[Linas.P]

2 hours ago, Spock66 said:

Nothing wrong with BEV's as part of an integrated transport policy, ideal for urban use.

Quite a lot wrong with saying BEV's are the only option.

That is pretty much perfect summary of my view. And very honestly I support low range and small BEVs that can be used in urban areas.

And I am happy for that to be promoted if car meets certain criteria e.g. up-to 1,500kg in weight, perhaps certain limits of the size with up to 20kWh Battery or whatever is decided to to be acceptable (almost like K-Car concept just for EV). Then they perhaps can get free or cheaper parking, charging, no congestion charge etc. That is positive way of encouraging people to do it, but just simply banning something that works in favour of something that doesn't work is stupid.

The problems only starts, as you said, when they want to make it the only way.  

1 hour ago, Cotswold Pete said:

many moons ago used to get my Lexus serviced in Swindon then catch the bus to work, you had to hold your nose, as I assume some people (the night before) assumed the bus was a toilet.

and the other day caught train to London, GWR Hitachi beast, with seats less comfortable than concrete, had a back ache for a week afterwards, so more and more I find public transport is not only expensive but darned uncomfortable.

what we really need is a Star Trek transporter

And that is the case with all public transport and will always be. You just simply can't make it "too nice" because not every member of the society is educated, responsible, clean person who will look after it. Some will ***** in the corners, some will spray it with graffiti, some will carve the back of the seats with knife, some will have they dirty kids wipe their hands after eating chicken burger with barbeque sauce onto the seats, some will put their shaity shoes on the seat in front of them, some will leave their rubbish after themselves and {insert whatever else here}.

So it is inevitable that public transport will always remain dirty and stinky place and the only other option is to have some space that you own yourself and you have control of what happens inside.

Obviously, it is possible to control it somewhat, perhaps ban the food on public transport, have some sort of attendant to enforce it, but inevitably there is limit of where it becomes counterproductive and it is simpler just to make the seats from plain stainless steel and just clean the with bleach once in a while. 

[dutchie01]

Charging times will decrease range will increase and codt of batteries are already going down rapidly. All this will create ev city cars with like you say 20kw batteries going 150 miles or so charging in 5 mins. And that is the sweet spot. I will buy one privately if its below 20 k.

 

[dutchie01]

Linas you forgot my number one issue with public transport. Agression and violence. Going into town i will take a taxi or drive myself. No Way.

[Mr Vlad]

Blimey public transport down south must be utter crap. I'll take a train into Manchester. I was surprised how nice the train was. Light airey and with power points. Yes on the way back party goers being rowdy but so what.

I'll not take a bus. Trams are quite good.

This Wednesday I got a surprise. I saw my 1st 100% EV class 2 truck. It looked nice. I looked for its Battery and assumed it was underneath where the fuel tanks would be. Unfortunately I didn't see the driver to ask about it.

I know that a good few years back hotpoint had EV 7.5t trucks just for London. 

What with JCB pioneering hydrogen for power and DAF doing EV trucks. Makes one wonder.

Me? I've said it before. BEV makes perfect sense for my use. However the expense kyboshes that. So I'll stick with my trusty V6 for as long as I'm able to drive.

As for the dire Infrastructure for BEV chargers here in the UK and how it desperately needs updating. Yes it's us who will be paying for it and not companies or governments or investment companies. 

We're just suckers unfortunately.

Oh Linas. Going lead free years back. It cost my Dad 300 quid to get the head sorted to accept lead free petrol. It probably cost 10's of thousands of others that too to convert their cars. So sorry that you got that bit where it didn't cost anything totally wrong. 

[Bluemarlin]

31 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Blimey public transport down south must be utter crap. I'll take a train into Manchester. I was surprised how nice the train was. Light airey and with power points. Yes on the way back party goers being rowdy but so what.

I'll not take a bus. Trams are quite good.

 

It really isn't crap Vladimir, but I suppose a lot depends on where in the south you live.

Whilst I usually prefer to  drive, where I live it's quicker to get into the centre of London on a clean, air conditioned train, with no traffic hold ups, congestion charge, or parking costs. My local bus service is also clean, usually populated by old people and middle class kids/families, and it runs 24 hours. Bonus is that they're both free if you're over 60.

I like the independence of a car, but sometimes it's just quicker, easier and more convenient to use public transport.

[Mr Vlad]

Thanks for the clarification Bill. I was only assuming from a comment/post earlier. 

[Bluemarlin]

2 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

Thanks for the clarification Bill. I was only assuming from a comment/post earlier. 

Yeah, I know Vladimir, they paint a grim picture. That said, I'm sure there are parts of the country, south or otherwise, where public transport isn't quite the transportation utopia I'm used to.

It's funny, I have American friends who, when they come here, think our transportation system is awesome, as they have nothing like it at home. Sure, it's not perfect (what public services are?), but for many it's absolutely essential. Just think how congested our roads would be without it.