Lexus has a Fatal Security Flaw

[Zaice001]

So you disable keyless entry ( relay theft not possible ( but keep your keys in a Faraday pouch anyway ) and you use a robust steering wheel lock- turns out they can steal the vehicle anyway in less than 90 seconds using a Can Bus Fraud - 

 

Less than 90 seconds they can access cables in the rear of the headlight via the wheel arch on the front of the vehicle and hey presto - software connected to poertable speaker or old Iphone and they are away with your car- new keys cloned- factory fitted immobiliser by bassed and steering wheel lock split in two using a high powered tool. 

 

This is a level of negligence by Lexus on the scale of the VW NOx emissions fraud. Class actions and litigation visible on the horizon. Brand damage permanent. Never again for me. 

[Las Palmas]

No matter what Lexus do. A pro can steal any car unless it is placed in a bank box in Switzerland.

That they could have had the wiring less easily accessible is another thing. A Porsche 911 can be had even faster. And no information from me. I used to sell and find out how to install alarm systems. When Golf V came with factory alarm 5 seconds was enough; we told VW and they changed it.

[Bluemarlin]

As a matter of interest, which (if any) cars can't be stolen easily, and why not?

[Dippo]

How many deaths has this fatal flaw caused?

[dutchie01]

Cars that nobody wants i guess. All others can be had as nowadays thieves know exactly where the weak spot is. Some years ago my BMW was almost gone by simply ticking the small window of the rear passenger door. Then apparently you can open the door from the inside. Lucky me as the thieves disappeared and when i was at the dealer for repair they told me this was the way to break in as the alarm does not cover that corner... So, the inside info is well known to the dark side and presto canbus theft is common.  BTW when at the dealer he told me a loyal BMW customer was so fed up with break ins and theft he googled for the top 10 cars thare are least sold ond got himself a Subaru

[rayaans]

14 hours ago, Zaice001 said:

So you disable keyless entry ( relay theft not possible ( but keep your keys in a faraday pouch anyway ) and you use a robust steering wheel lock- turns out they can steal the vehicle anyway in less than 90 seconds using a Can Bus Fraud - 

 

Less than 90 seconds they can access cables in the rear of the headlight via the wheel arch on the front of the vehicle and hey presto - software connected to poertable speaker or old iphone and they are away with your car- new keys cloned- factory fitted immobiliser by bassed and steering wheel lock split in two using a high powered tool. 

 

This is a level of negligence by Lexus on the scale of the VW NOx emissions fraud. Class actions and litigation visible on the horizon. Brand damage permanent. Never again for me. 

This post is actually hilarious.

Any car can be stolen. 

Also if you fit a ghost system, it cant bypass the immobiliser as it requires a code 

[Las Palmas]

55 minutes ago, Bluemarlin said:

As a matter of interest, which (if any) cars can't be stolen easily, and why not?

Retired in 2005 and have no idea of what is happening in alarm business sinde 2007, when another of the people knowing about it also retired.

[Las Palmas]

11 minutes ago, rayaans said:

This post is actually hilarious.

Any car can be stolen. 

Also if you fit a ghost system, it cant bypass the immobiliser as it requires a code 

Of course, you can remove the electronics in your car (would require complete diagrams and a lot of knowledge), and installing another security system, but then it could be cheaper to buy a car without can-bus systems controlling all the features in your car and live with a car without all the gadgets that are selling cars.

Comfort features come with a price and that Lexus has the wiring too easily to access is maybe hard to understand, but the more wiring should be installed impossible to access the longer the wiring and more complicated building the car meaning the car will be even more expensive.

Park car in an alarm protected garage. Have Lexus add a sensor that would detect is car is lifted and have an extra Battery powered siren of not allowed sound power to damage and hurt the thief's ears, you will get a fine for having that if found out though, but it would wake up neighbours.

Cars parked in dark streets are inviting hungry persons that have less morale than hoped for.

An old trick: Install a well-hidden switch that would disconnect the 12V Battery in the car, and the canbus would not be functioning. That would give yourself a lot of extra work to start the car as well.

[LenT]

14 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

When Golf V came with factory alarm 5 seconds was enough; we told VW and they changed it.

The most surprising aspect of this information, John, is that we might expect VW to have engineers whose sole job was to steal the cars.  And defeat the security systems designed by the other engineers.

In much the same way that large enterprises use professional hackers to test their computer systems.  

As has already been suggested, no car is unstealable.  if a car can be lifted onto a trailer without activating any sensors, it can be stolen.  Which is when trackers prove their worth.  

Perhaps what’s needed is a Security Standard for the Motor Industry that defines a minimum level of Theft Prevention by built-in systems.  Although, of course, if someone knows how to build them, then - rather like safes and bank vaults- someone else can work out how to break them!

[Las Palmas]

Trackers can be detected with the same type detectors used in airports for passengers and frequency can be found and jammed with a stronger signal in same frequency.

[LenT]

8 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

An old trick: Install a well-hidden switch that would disconnect the 12V battery in the car, and the canbus would not be functioning. That would give yourself a lot of extra work to start the car as well.

 

I think that’s still an excellent idea.

When I had a Lotus Elan convertible, I often had to leave it parked around London.  So as well as a bright yellow Disklok, I fitted an immobilising kill switch in the low tension line to the distributor.

It actually consisted of a small threaded rod that screwed into a concealed tube and completed the circuit.  I’ve not seen anything like it since, so I don’t know if they’re still available. But it was extremely effective.

Whether anything as simple could be fitted to the advanced electronics of modern cars, I have no idea.  But it was very effective because the engine would turn over enthusiastically without ever producing a spark!

 

[Las Palmas]

1 minute ago, LenT said:

I think that’s still an excellent idea.

When I had a Lotus Elan convertible, I often had to leave it parked around London.  So as well as a bright yellow Disklok, I fitted an immobilising kill switch in the low tension line to the distributor.

It actually consisted of a small threaded rod that screwed into a concealed tube and completed the circuit.  I’ve not seen anything like it since, so I don’t know if they’re still available. But it was extremely effective.

Whether anything as simple could be fitted to the advanced electronics of modern cars, I have no idea.  But it was very effective because the engine would turn over enthusiastically without ever producing a spark!

No problem to install a switch to cut off 12V Battery, it only come with the disadvantages that follow changing Battery.

[Herbie]

This thing can have up to three hidden switches that must be pressed in the correct order.

EDIT: Just read all the stuff on the website and it's not suitable for hybrids!

[northpolar]

My RX was stolen 11 April, no doubt via the wheel arch.  What was particularly galling was to receive last week a penalty charge notice from the adjacent borough - the car was illegally parked in a residential bay on the evening of 12 April!  I was amazed to find that the thieves hadn't even bothered to swap over the number plates.  Were they incompetent or lazy?  I doubt it - it would seem that despite having reported the matter to the police, nothing at all is done other than the paperwork for a crime reference number.  All those number plate recognition cameras which ought to have kicked into action - are they even switched on?  The local authority took photos of the car and reg number and were able to send a penalty notice to me, but were unable to realize the car was stolen.  Thank you Hackney (not)!

I have now replaced the RX but not with a Lexus and the replacement has an S5 tracker fitted and will soon have a Ghost II immobiliser fitted.  Hopefully these will help reduce the odds of losing the new car.

Whilst it may be possible to steal any car (as noted above) unfortunately there seem to be some especially vulnerable/ targetted.  The other thread surprised me to identify that in London, the RX is now fancied by the tea leaves.  A real shame as the build quality of mine was exceptional.  Range Rovers seem to be the current proverbial tip of the iceberg.  I heard on a recent pod cast by Chris Harris and friends that one of their pals recently bought a Range Rover.  They live outside London most of the time but also have an apartment in London.  Their insurance renewal appeared with a £50,000 excess on the policy!!  So whilst it may be possible to steal any vehicle, the odds are more heavily stacked against some more than others.  Regrettable that the RX is heading up the popularity charts with thieves. 

Peter

 

[Sumtingwong]

This does concern me, hence my installation of the scorpion can bus immobilizer which requires a unique key combination of 4-20 keys (up to the user) to start the car.  Cost is £450

[Illogan]

2 hours ago, northpolar said:

My RX was stolen 11 April, no doubt via the wheel arch.  What was particularly galling was to receive last week a penalty charge notice from the adjacent borough - the car was illegally parked in a residential bay on the evening of 12 April!  I was amazed to find that the thieves hadn't even bothered to swap over the number plates.  Were they incompetent or lazy?  I doubt it - it would seem that despite having reported the matter to the police, nothing at all is done other than the paperwork for a crime reference number.  All those number plate recognition cameras which ought to have kicked into action - are they even switched on?  The local authority took photos of the car and reg number and were able to send a penalty notice to me, but were unable to realize the car was stolen.  Thank you Hackney (not)!

I have now replaced the RX but not with a Lexus and the replacement has an S5 tracker fitted and will soon have a Ghost II immobiliser fitted.  Hopefully these will help reduce the odds of losing the new car.

Whilst it may be possible to steal any car (as noted above) unfortunately there seem to be some especially vulnerable/ targetted.  The other thread surprised me to identify that in London, the RX is now fancied by the tea leaves.  A real shame as the build quality of mine was exceptional.  Range Rovers seem to be the current proverbial tip of the iceberg.  I heard on a recent pod cast by Chris Harris and friends that one of their pals recently bought a Range Rover.  They live outside London most of the time but also have an apartment in London.  Their insurance renewal appeared with a £50,000 excess on the policy!!  So whilst it may be possible to steal any vehicle, the odds are more heavily stacked against some more than others.  Regrettable that the RX is heading up the popularity charts with thieves. 

Peter

 

I'm not sure whether your discomfort is with the fact that your choice of car is also popular with car thieves, or that car thieves steal car models that are popular with those whom would buy the cars from them?

Thieves only ever steal property that others want to own.  (There are currently few reports of stolen Austin Allegros)

[northpolar]

My discomfort is that my car was stolen and the infrastructure to do something about it - police; camera infrastructure; local authorities - appears to be sat on its big fat lazy *rse doing nothing for me or anyone else in similar circumstances.  Not helped by Lexus knowing there is an inherent problem which they are developing a metal plate to prevent access to CAN bus; but omitting on the minor detail of not bothering to inform their customers of the current risk facing them.  Oh and the joy of being completely fleeced by the insurance industry afterwards, despite protected no claims cover.

Hope that helps with your puzzlement.

Peter

[LenT]

8 hours ago, Illogan said:

There are currently few reports of stolen Austin Allegros

Of course that could be because there appears to be only 37 Austin Allegros currently registered in the UK - and 22 of those are on a SORN. 😊

[CT200h-TL]

13 hours ago, northpolar said:

 Oh and the joy of being completely fleeced by the insurance industry afterwards, despite protected no claims cover.

Hi Peter, 

Would you mind to elaborate on this?

Thanks,

Charles 

[Sybaris]

The best theft protection

 

[Zaice001]

On 5/28/2023 at 11:15 AM, rayaans said:

This post is actually hilarious.

Any car can be stolen. 

Also if you fit a ghost system, it cant bypass the immobiliser as it requires a code 

I did not intend it of course to be hilarious nor for your interpretation of the reference to fatal to pertain to a human being - heavens no! I was referring to the brand - I'd love to meet up with you in person and clarify exactly what I mean . Perhaps we could have a good old laugh and a chinwag? 

 

[northpolar]

On 5/29/2023 at 11:24 AM, CT200h-TL said:

Hi Peter, 

Would you mind to elaborate on this?

Thanks,

Charles 

Charles,

Sorry, I have only returned to the thread this morning.  As mentioned in my other post this morning, my insurer was very good at settling my claim and the amount paid by them was IMHO very reasonable.  My problem came when I was made aware that if I did not replace my car within a month of the claim being settled, that my policy would be canceled and I would receive no recompense for the period remaining on the policy.  For whatever reason this made me a little suspicious - perhaps this is standard industry practice - but I was very wary of being forced out into the insurance market seeking a new policy having just claimed on a stolen vehicle.

Anyway, it prompted me to decide to replace the RX and I was very reluctant to get the same after what had just happened and I was even more reluctant to get the new model with its four cylinder engine and £80k price tag.  So I thought I'll be more modest and as a stop gap I decided to go for a 3 series BMW - not the M3 I hasten to add.  A lesson learned is that before doing anything I should have called the insurance company to verify there would be no problem.  My bad as they say!  I got as far as arranging the purchase of a 6 month old car from a main dealer and called the insurer to advise on the new details.  The response was that the 'system' would not offer a policy for that vehicle.  I have perhaps been too hasty but when they were unable to offer any explanation nor advise on what vehicles would be acceptable to them I concluded that they simply took the view that they had fulfilled their contractual obligations and were now keen to off load a high risk customer asap.  My maths may well have been incorrect when adding 2 plus 2 and by going out into the market I have been completely fleeced on the new insurance policy.  My decision probably should have been not to bother buying a car until such times as I have a new home with garage!

Peter

[peniole]

7 hours ago, northpolar said:

Charles,

Sorry, I have only returned to the thread this morning.  As mentioned in my other post this morning, my insurer was very good at settling my claim and the amount paid by them was IMHO very reasonable.  My problem came when I was made aware that if I did not replace my car within a month of the claim being settled, that my policy would be canceled and I would receive no recompense for the period remaining on the policy.  For whatever reason this made me a little suspicious - perhaps this is standard industry practice - but I was very wary of being forced out into the insurance market seeking a new policy having just claimed on a stolen vehicle.

Anyway, it prompted me to decide to replace the RX and I was very reluctant to get the same after what had just happened and I was even more reluctant to get the new model with its four cylinder engine and £80k price tag.  So I thought I'll be more modest and as a stop gap I decided to go for a 3 series BMW - not the M3 I hasten to add.  A lesson learned is that before doing anything I should have called the insurance company to verify there would be no problem.  My bad as they say!  I got as far as arranging the purchase of a 6 month old car from a main dealer and called the insurer to advise on the new details.  The response was that the 'system' would not offer a policy for that vehicle.  I have perhaps been too hasty but when they were unable to offer any explanation nor advise on what vehicles would be acceptable to them I concluded that they simply took the view that they had fulfilled their contractual obligations and were now keen to off load a high risk customer asap.  My maths may well have been incorrect when adding 2 plus 2 and by going out into the market I have been completely fleeced on the new insurance policy.  My decision probably should have been not to bother buying a car until such times as I have a new home with garage!

Peter

So what is the benefit of the protected no claims cover, especially as that pushes up the cost considerably? Are we chumps for buying the extra cover? Anyone else like to chime in on this?

[wivenhoe]

In an earlier post it was queried why the car was left nearby - I have been told they do this to see if a tracker has been fitted. If it’s still there a day later they know it’s ‘safe’ to have it. Made me think, I wonder how many cars ‘parked’ by thieves have been stolen by another gang ?

[retep2311]

Hi,

Just experienced this impact due to the poor security solution on my 1 year old Lexus RX. Insurance went from £500 to £2500 per year and wasn't easy to get insurance at all. My question has anyone written to Lexus regarding a possible claim for a latent defect as surely the car should be able to be insured without these excessive costs. I wasn't told at the time of purchase of this issue and insured easily it was only on the renewal I was informed of the issue and refused insurance from many. Always had new lexus for 20 years but will never buy again as not even been notified of the issue by Lexus - which is strange.