Test Drive

[talaipwros]

On 8/5/2023 at 9:01 PM, wivenhoe said:

Will be interesting to see if they match it - also if the part x offers are holding up. 

Well, I had to cancel.

 

Part x offer was worse than WBAC

 

[wivenhoe]

2 minutes ago, talaipwros said:

Well, I had to cancel.

 

Part x offer was worse than WBAC

 

My dealer matched the Motorway amount which was £ 4k higher than WBAC  Shame they couldn’t make the cost to change work. Good luck finding an alternative. 

[talaipwros]

On 8/17/2023 at 1:57 PM, wivenhoe said:

My dealer matched the Motorway amount which was £ 4k higher than WBAC  Shame they couldn’t make the cost to change work. Good luck finding an alternative. 

Thanks, there are lots of new EV's coming. This has some enthusiastic reviews 

 

Especially the brabus model.

 

4WD -Better range - 0-60 at 3.9 seconds and costs about 25K less and reviewers say it has excellent materials quality as it's essentially a mercedes.

[talaipwros]

Actually range is similar, not better

[talaipwros]

On 8/17/2023 at 1:57 PM, wivenhoe said:

 Good luck finding an alternative. 

https://ev-database.org/uk/car/1712/Fisker-Ocean-One

 

this one looks interesting

[Ken R]

Drove an RZ earlier this week. Good looking car, fit and finish were to the usual Lexus high standard. Interior trim slightly disappointing given the car is a premium priced vehicle. Clearly Lexus aiming for a minimalist look particularly with the door cards. Absence of a rear wash wipe is strange but no doubt for aerodynamic reasons! Biggest downside for me is range. Car was handed over fully charged and indicating 165 miles. To be fair that didn't decrease as rapidly as the miles covered increased but still would be in the region of 180 I reckon. If that range could be doubled I would be seriously interested as it really is a super car to drive in as near to silence as you can get. Handling was sure footed, acceleration amazing, visibility behind the wheel good (apart from the rear view through rain soaked glass!) and a very easy car to get to grips with. 

[John Adams]

1 hour ago, Ken R said:

Drove an RZ earlier this week. Good looking car, fit and finish were to the usual Lexus high standard. Interior trim slightly disappointing given the car is a premium priced vehicle. Clearly Lexus aiming for a minimalist look particularly with the door cards. Absence of a rear wash wipe is strange but no doubt for aerodynamic reasons! Biggest downside for me is range. Car was handed over fully charged and indicating 165 miles. To be fair that didn't decrease as rapidly as the miles covered increased but still would be in the region of 180 I reckon. If that range could be doubled I would be seriously interested as it really is a super car to drive in as near to silence as you can get. Handling was sure footed, acceleration amazing, visibility behind the wheel good (apart from the rear view through rain soaked glass!) and a very easy car to get to grips with. 

Ken, the indicated range of 165 miles is  probably down because of the way it has been driven on test drives. I drive mine carefully although I do indulge in the traffic light grand prix sometimes. 

Fully charged, mine consistently shows 196 miles which is poor but consistent. Obviously on a long drive you have to charge more often.

I think a rear wiper should be fitted as I find it difficult to see out of it sometimes. I've said before that I think the suede seats are out of place and a car of this price point should be leather but just my opinion.  The car is nice to drive but there are too many niggle son this car for my liking.

[wivenhoe]

The only defence I would make is beware when looking at range and charging. There is a very good reason all manufacturers state 20% to 80% charge times - it can take as long to get from 80% to 100% as 20% to 80%. Ranges quotes are always max range with no heating or a/c so when the car reported say 165 the ac was probably on. Turn the ac off and as John says, probably 200. I’ve just charged mine and driven it a lot of motorways and it is saying 217. 

[Whoever]

Well, as the originator of this thread, it is time for me to bow out. 

I was sorely disappointed with the range forecasts coming from the US so did not hold out a lot of hope for the test drive, and indeed there was nothing to tempt me to buy the RZ following that drive.

There is not much enthusiasm on this forum for the RZ and I cannot see it being available in its current form for too long.

Pretty soon after the RZ drive I tried the ID5, Ariya, Mustang Mach E and Genesis GV60.

My GV60 arrived today. I believe that I have made a good choice, although I too have no rear wiper. The only issue is that my Evoque's value has nosedived in the last two months, so much so that I got £9000 less than the promised trade in from Lexus for August. This car buying lark is perilous.

All the best to owners and fans of the Lexus RZ.

[John Adams]

11 hours ago, Whoever said:

Well, as the originator of this thread, it is time for me to bow out. 

I was sorely disappointed with the range forecasts coming from the US so did not hold out a lot of hope for the test drive, and indeed there was nothing to tempt me to buy the RZ following that drive.

There is not much enthusiasm on this forum for the RZ and I cannot see it being available in its current form for too long.

Pretty soon after the RZ drive I tried the ID5, Ariya, Mustang Mach E and Genesis GV60.

My GV60 arrived today. I believe that I have made a good choice, although I too have no rear wiper. The only issue is that my Evoque's value has nosedived in the last two months, so much so that I got £9000 less than the promised trade in from Lexus for August. This car buying lark is perilous.

All the best to owners and fans of the Lexus RZ.

All the best with the GV60. Let us know how you get on.  9k loss since August -ouch that's bad.

[ruds]

23 hours ago, Whoever said:

Well, as the originator of this thread, it is time for me to bow out. 

I was sorely disappointed with the range forecasts coming from the US so did not hold out a lot of hope for the test drive, and indeed there was nothing to tempt me to buy the RZ following that drive.

There is not much enthusiasm on this forum for the RZ and I cannot see it being available in its current form for too long.

Pretty soon after the RZ drive I tried the ID5, Ariya, Mustang Mach E and Genesis GV60.

My GV60 arrived today. I believe that I have made a good choice, although I too have no rear wiper. The only issue is that my Evoque's value has nosedived in the last two months, so much so that I got £9000 less than the promised trade in from Lexus for August. This car buying lark is perilous.

All the best to owners and fans of the Lexus RZ.

The GV60 was in my sights whilst I was waiting for the RZ - I had a couple of test drives and was pleased with it.  However I was a little underwhelmed with build quality compared to my RX which I had at the time, I felt the GV60 felt a bit 'light'.  

Despite this being a Lexus forum it would be good to get your feedback.

[F.A.]

I am a Lexus fanboy and we have owned 4 Lexus cars over the past 14 years.  We replaced our RX450h for an Electrified Genesis GV70 back in March. We decided to go down this route as the RZ wasn’t available in time and also in my opinion of course, I felt that the EV specs of the GV70 regarding range, charging, performance were better than the RZ on paper. In these regards, it hasn’t disappointed, and we have been extremely happy with it. I was concerned about the build quality coming from a Lexus but, boot alignment issue  aside, it has been good. The material quality has been more than a match ( again in my opinion) now that I have seen the RZ and I currently have a very bitter taste in my mouth regarding Lexus build quality, with the carbon delimitation issues our GSF has suffered with. 
We had a top spec GV60 for a week and whilst we didn’t have any complaints, I felt the materials were a level below the GV70. 

[wivenhoe]

Whoever - despite my concerns over range I went with the RZ as it had been preordered and was available in May - decided with the insurance rocketing and used car prices reducing my Velar would not hold the px offered so no brainer. I got £62k px - £ 8k less than bought for my 2 year old Velar P400e so something like 10% for 2 years. I put it in WeBuy tonight and it had melted to £ 48k so lost £ 14k in 5 months. Back in May they offered £ 60k. 
That said, I just put my RZ in and they offered £ 42k which is £ 30k loss in 5 months !
 

 

[Malc1]

10 hours ago, wivenhoe said:

That said, I just put my RZ in and they offered £ 42k which is £ 30k loss in 5 months !

myohmy .........   some £200 a day for the residual capital loss if you sold her today, let alone the capital and possible finance cost, pain of purchasing new some 5 months back 

No health warning on buying new cars eh !    BUT that euphoric moment of driving off, that day in your brand new car 😃

AND now knowing insurance costs are going thru' the roof too for EVs generally 

I'm quite certain, intuitively, that your tale is not uncommon amongst EV purchasers .....  from nouveau rich to nouveau poor in 5 months ........ 

Not sure what else to say other than to offer my commiserations on your loss

Malc

 

[talaipwros]

By the way, that 50K Premier plus is still for sale, and that says something. 

[wivenhoe]

11 hours ago, Malc1 said:

myohmy .........   some £200 a day for the residual capital loss if you sold her today, let alone the capital and possible finance cost, pain of purchasing new some 5 months back 

No health warning on buying new cars eh !    BUT that euphoric moment of driving off, that day in your brand new car 😃

AND now knowing insurance costs are going thru' the roof too for EVs generally 

I'm quite certain, intuitively, that your tale is not uncommon amongst EV purchasers .....  from nouveau rich to nouveau poor in 5 months ........ 

Not sure what else to say other than to offer my commiserations on your loss

Malc

 

Malc - Thanks for your commiserations but because of the vastly inflated px I got for my Range Rover and intending to keep the Lexus, I won’t feel the loss for quite some time - which helps.
Have just got my renewal though for the insurance and for my RZ and wife’s new Yaris on a dual car policy, it’s gone up £ 300 - I was expecting a lot more. I am paying £ 500 less for both cars than Lexus wanted just for the RZ. NFU couldn’t tell me back in May, when I bought the RZ, how much more the Range Rover would be other than lots !  
The Range Rover Velar forum I was on had guys saying they were being quoted up to £ 3k, where they could get a quote and add to that servicing was about £ 800 / year. 

I think the car market is all over the place at the moment - European & Japanese EV’s are still too expensive just as the Chinese are making big moves into the UK with much cheaper offerings. Dealers don’t know how this is going to pan out so are rightly being cautious about bidding for expensive / prestige EV’s. Not at all helped by the government moving the goal post by 5 years. 

I suspect that if or when buyers start reporting quality and reliability issues, together with a lack of service centres, the value will return to the prestige marques. I for one don’t want to drive a car that could be monitored and taken over by someone in Beijing !  The government banned Huawei from providing 5g equipment but are not stopping Chinese cars full of surveillance tech (over the air updates for instance) to UK buyers. 
 

[ruds]

12 hours ago, Malc1 said:

myohmy .........   some £200 a day for the residual capital loss if you sold her today, let alone the capital and possible finance cost, pain of purchasing new some 5 months back 

No health warning on buying new cars eh !    BUT that euphoric moment of driving off, that day in your brand new car 😃

AND now knowing insurance costs are going thru' the roof too for EVs generally 

I'm quite certain, intuitively, that your tale is not uncommon amongst EV purchasers .....  from nouveau rich to nouveau poor in 5 months ........ 

Not sure what else to say other than to offer my commiserations on your loss

Malc

 

Car values are based on a combination of the physical product along with the quality of service from the marque itself. 
I have owned Lexus for over 20 years and the service IMO is exceptional. I have attempted to stray to other German brands and have been very disappointed from the outset. It is for this reason I have remained with Lexus. It is a brand I know and trust. I would hate to spend £60k+ on a car and be met with poor service with little redress and be treated as a number. It is for this reason I remain with Lexus and their reliability.
The EV car market is over inflated at present and will take another 5 years plus to settle. However if RZ owners like myself are happy with their purchase then I struggle to agree that they have lost out.  I intend to remain with the brand, who knows what comes next. I have the same debate over apple products compared with other run of mill tech manufacturers. Quality and service cost, but are worth paying for. 

[Malc1]

Quality and Service costs and certainly worth paying for ……. I’m not at all certain you can’t buy the Service Quality at a fraction of the price that a Main Dealer offers …….. I’ve experienced brilliant quality service from independents over the solid 25 years I’ve owned and run my Lexii …….
 

Maybe I’ve been lucky and never buying a brand new Lexus nor other marque has given me security of the brilliance of Lexus coz we all know they have been outstandingly well built cars over the past years ……. not so sure that’s the case going forward reading these forums and owners issues 

Computer technology, well I’m in the hands of fate as my knowledge is almost zilch and my reliance upon others skills is paramount …… but those costs pale into insignificance compared to buying cars …… 

Lexus cars are on the whole, I agree, a cut above the rest imho and I’m so so pleased I have mine and had one for the past qtr century 👏

lucky to have discovered Lexus in its early years eh !  

Malc 

[Boomer54]

9 hours ago, Malc1 said:

Quality and Service costs and certainly worth paying for ……. I’m not at all certain you can’t buy the Service Quality at a fraction of the price that a Main Dealer offers …….. I’ve experienced brilliant quality service from independents over the solid 25 years I’ve owned and run my Lexii …….
 

Maybe I’ve been lucky and never buying a brand new Lexus nor other marque has given me security of the brilliance of Lexus coz we all know they have been outstandingly well built cars over the past years ……. not so sure that’s the case going forward reading these forums and owners issues 

Computer technology, well I’m in the hands of fate as my knowledge is almost zilch and my reliance upon others skills is paramount …… but those costs pale into insignificance compared to buying cars …… 

Lexus cars are on the whole, I agree, a cut above the rest imho and I’m so so pleased I have mine and had one for the past qtr century 👏

lucky to have discovered Lexus in its early years eh !  

Malc 

Main dealers are not always tops at service that is true. I can think of one BMW dealer right here who nearly bought themselves a basketful of litigation until they decided to see the light. However, I will say that when it comes to the mechanical not one ever really let me ,or my wife down. They did do what needed doing and they seem to have done it well. Perhaps that would have happened at independents, but perhaps not. My wife's first car was serviced at the garage of a friend of her fathers. The two would regularly be sharing a table and a beer at the British Legion club. After we left that area and took the car to a new independent garage we were absolutely taken aback to find that much of the servicing work she had been paying for had just not been done. You can guess the stuff in question, because these things are generally observable.

So, after such an experience it's long way back in terms of regaining trust of independents for my wife. Indeed decades on I know she would rather pay the premium and use the dealerships in the belief she will get what she is paying for. So far she has had no reason to change her mind .

[Tickedon]

On 7/15/2023 at 7:11 PM, talaipwros said:

I do not believe that many owners will keep it past the 3 years PCP period , considering that in 3 years Toyota/Lexus should have their advertised new battery technology.

There is no way that a 3 years old 30.000 miles RZ will cost £32K in 2026

 

That 10 years battery warranty is a completely moot point

The Audi e-tron (now called Q8 e-tron) started from £60k in 2020. There are several 2020 examples on Autotrader in the £20-25k range… (including one with 32k miles for £23k).

The depreciation on that car has been ridiculous. And it offers similar real world range to the RZ.

[wivenhoe]

The market price of all EV’s have plummeted recently. The critics favourite, the Genesis GV60 is a good example. A top of the range model is £ 73k on their website so similar to a RZ Takumi  Autotrader has a 23 reg with 800 miles top of the range for £ 59k. Motorway will not provide a value. Motorway values a 6 month old RZ Takumi with 4,500 miles at £ 54k so less than the Genesis, but in the same dire range.

[Malc1]

I wouldn't want to be a dealer holding and financing stock for sure  😥

Malc

[dutchie01]

12 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

I wouldn't want to be a dealer holding and financing stock for sure  😥

Malc

And pay for the shiny dealer palace you are instructed to have by your only supplier that also attacks you from behind as they want to go direct to your customers over the internet. And to witness the transition to no maintenance electric vehicles, no services needed, no engine, gearbox oils or cooling fluids to sell. Before you know it you are a mere service center trying to survive on an annual kickback from your only supplier that will keep you alive as long as needed. What will be the role of a dealer in 10 years time??

[GMB]

On 10/13/2023 at 9:33 PM, ruds said:

I have the same debate over Apple products compared with other run of mill tech manufacturers

Sorry Can't agree with that one.

I actually worked for apple and their mark-up to apple UK was around 40% at the time. Then the dealers wanted 25%. They still are poor value for money. A new PC or Android will compete or beat apple on most benchmarks.

For quality and "usually" performance and VFM buy Dell.

Some apple sales people used to say " Sell the sizzle not the sausage"

But let's not go over the apple vs PC argument all over again.🥵

[wivenhoe]

Genesis tried the web only sales and a central service with collection and delivery of cars. They sold this as a unique service with personalised attention. It bit them badly and now they have signed deals with dealer networks for a  network of conventional localish service centres. 

Genesis has appointed the first seven of 20 new network partners as part of its plans to establish a franchised dealer network in the UK ahead of further European expansion.

The move represents a significant change of direction for the brand which was launched in the UK in 2021 on the premise that it would “look after the customer from end-to-end, taking full control of that with no agents, no dealers”.