Test Drive

[John Adams]

13 hours ago, wivenhoe said:

John. Losing confidence in Lexus. They told me that the error message you get when checking to see if there is a map update “There is a problem contact your dealer” is wrong. You need to insert a USB with an update on it - so manual is also wrong about OTA nap updates. But anyway, the Autumn 2022 (9 months ago) is the latest so probably 1 update per year. I said that was very poor as the speed camera data would be well out of date. Shrugged shoulders. 
They tried to convince me that the a/c always being on was normal - I explained that was wrong not least as yours works as normal. I talked to the technician and he will look into it. 

Bob. Just another thought. On every Lexus I have owned prior to the NX I bought last year I have left the ac on permanently because that's how I used to like it. With the NX, the ac wouldn't stay on by default and it was always turned off when I restarted the car. I checked with Lexus and they said that as the NX always starts off in ev mode, the ac was off by default to preserve the Battery. I can understand this logic. However, it makes no sense for a full ev to have the ac on permanently if you want to preserve Battery range. I'll see if I can dig out the email reply I had from them. Your dealer is talking rubbish and as I say, mine is off unless I turn it on. I would get back to them and tell them to sort it out.

 

As for losing confidence in Lexus, join the club. I have sent 3 emails to Lexus cs over the last month and so far no reply. The dealer is little better in responding to things unless you keep pushing. Always came back quickly before I bought the car though.

[talaipwros]

So, the test drive.

 

Not a bad car, but not a good £68K EV.

Built quality looked nice, no odd noises, no squicking or rattling, looked solid. A much nicer place to be in than in a tesla, same league though as the iX1

Acceleration was OK, much better than the Leaf's , not as impressive as Tesla's but it is definitely plenty enough.

The HUD is confusing but hey, something to get used to I am sure.

Battery was more or less as expected, while in the city or under 50 MPH it looked as it would achieve 200 miles.

Sadly at 70 MPH looked that it wouldn't last more than 150. The final blow was when the Lexus lady - very good service by the way, no complaint there - turned on the heating and Boom, 40 miles down.

 

So in reality it is a city car. A big and expensive albeit pleasant to be in, city car.

 

They need to do a really really good deal to make me buy it, the missus thought that it was on par with the Leaf from her point of view on the back seat - and the Premium Plus does not even have back heated seats.

 

[talaipwros]

ehm, is this a new addition on the website?  I would love having that piece of information previously

 

https://www.lexus.co.uk/new-cars/rz

 

have a play,even with airconditioning off, it says 158 miles of range

 

[talaipwros]

20 degrees celcius, no air conditioning, 167 miles range

 ehm...

 

[Steved2]

The best that I could do

[talaipwros]

Discounts are coming

 

 

[wivenhoe]

The EV market is changing - particularly after Tesla dropped its prices by £ 10k+. 
 

[talaipwros]

32 minutes ago, wivenhoe said:

The EV market is changing - particularly after Tesla dropped its prices by £ 10k+. 
 

nice deal, although wouldn't buy VAG

which website is it?

[wivenhoe]

DriveTheDeal - They are my first stop to see which manufacturers are offering deals. You deal direct with the dealer so the cars are real ! DtD only get an introduction fee from the dealer. At the moment the only ‘prestige marque’ they have is Audi but it regularly changes.
Sites like this and CarWow will be struggling soon as so many companies are switching to Agency sales so no discounts. Merc switched months ago, volumes have gone down but profits up as they are selling fewer cars but at the full retail price. I have bought 4 Merc’s previously and used DtD prices to the same discount locally - I spoke to the salesman I bought all these from and he said not a penny off and few options, just expensive packs designed that you have to buy say 3 of them to get the options most people want. There are some discounts on Merc’s but these seem to be ex demos.  

[wivenhoe]

On 7/1/2023 at 6:50 AM, ColinBarber said:

They don’t warrant 90%, only 70%. They have designed it so it shouldn’t be less than 90% but you won’t get a replacement if it doesn’t match expectations. 
 

 

Colin. The latest RZ Lexus site now confirms the Battery is guaranteed 90% at 10 years. They originally guaranteed the same but as you said then changed and now changed back !

https://www.lexus.co.uk/new-cars/rz#power-range-calculator/id:64abf464df19832391a26d20/lexus-steps-up-its-p/
 

 

[talaipwros]

33 minutes ago, wivenhoe said:

Colin. The latest RZ Lexus site now confirms the battery is guaranteed 90% at 10 years. They originally guaranteed the same but as you said then changed and now changed back !

https://www.lexus.co.uk/new-cars/rz#power-range-calculator/id:64abf464df19832391a26d20/lexus-steps-up-its-p/
 

 

That's a 13th of March autotrader review, referenced on Lexus website.

[wivenhoe]

As it’s on the official Lexus website then they would struggle to deny its applicability. Not that I intend to keep the car 10 years !

[talaipwros]

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202307260077169

 

Takumi demonstrator ( I hope), 1134 miles, at £63479

 

I think I will offer £55K for that Premium Plus - and ask them to do an above market price part exchange offer for my other car - and see what happens.

[ColinBarber]

2 hours ago, wivenhoe said:

As it’s on the official Lexus website then they would struggle to deny its applicability. Not that I intend to keep the car 10 years !

Difficult to know what to believe but I think that info is old.

The current brochure states:

EXTENDED EV CARE
From new, all EV components benefits from our five-year/60,000* miles warranty. When your vehicle is brought in for its annual health check it will be eligible for a further one-year/10,000** miles of EV Battery extended care up to 10 years old/600,000 miles** for degradation below 70% of initial capacity. Having created the Lexus EV technology, only a LEXUS EV Authorised Repairer can give you the peace of mind and expert care you expect.

 

and the warranty T&Cs don't mention any 90% guarantee.

 

Like you, most new owners are unlikely to keep their car for 10 years so this isn't really an issue but given Toyota/Lexus are now lowering the buffer to give the vehicle more range, I don't think they are able to offer that guarantee. It will be interesting to understand how they handle this with existing owners that purchased based on the guarantee - offer the choice of either upgrading the software to get more range and lose the guarantee or stick as is and keep it?

[wivenhoe]

My thoughts too. After 7 years how will the 2nd / 3rd / 4th owner know. Looking at the research to date, cars like the Leaf have been around for 13 years and their degradation has been minimal - mind you for most of that time they weren’t using DC high speed chargers. 

After having a new Range Rover Velar and being on the owners forum, if the only problem was a bit of Battery degradation in 7 years time that would be a dream. Engines having to be replaced at 5 years old seems to be the norm. 
 

I can’t find out if the RZ has cells that can be replaced - I think that some manufacturers use a cellular arrangement and that is why they warrant say 70% because they will only change defective cells rather than the whole Battery which would take it back to 100%. 

[ColinBarber]

4 hours ago, wivenhoe said:

I can’t find out if the RZ has cells that can be replaced - I think that some manufacturers use a cellular arrangement and that is why they warrant say 70% because they will only change defective cells rather than the whole battery which would take it back to 100%. 

I think they are using Panasonic prismatic cells. In theory they could be changed but it would depend on how the seal the Battery pack casing. Toyota/Lexus hybrid Battery packs are quite easy to disassemble but they are much simpler air cooled packs. Dealers certainly won't be trying to replace a Battery cell, any warranty work would require a new (or refurbished) Battery pack.

Manufacturers are using the 70% figure as it is highly unlikely a Battery would ever degrade that much unless there was a hard failure of a cell. But they don't have to provide a new pack, it could be reconditioned with a degradation level that would be expected of the age of the vehicle.

 

4 hours ago, wivenhoe said:

Looking at the research to date, cars like the Leaf have been around for 13 years and their degradation has been minimal - mind you for most of that time they weren’t using DC high speed chargers. 

The fact that the Leaf with a Battery pack of quite a poor design by modern standards (being air cooled without proper Battery management) has minimal degradation kind of proves the press has made degradation out to be a much bigger thing than it actually is.

[talaipwros]

That doesn't look right. Almost full Battery and 172 miles range ( the takumi for sale at Liverpool)

 

 

 

I wonder if some vehicles are different  than others batterywise

[John Adams]

1 hour ago, talaipwros said:

That doesn't look right. Almost full battery and 172 miles range ( the takumi for sale at Liverpool)

 

 

 

I wonder if some vehicles are different  than others batterywise

Mine shows 196 miles with ac and 246 without ac on a full charge.  Is this a demo car?  The demo car I had showed  I think 160 miles and an efficiency of 2.3m/kwh. I have never seen efficiency this low and just assumed the car had been hammered on the test drives

[ColinBarber]

5 minutes ago, John Adams said:

I have never seen efficiency this low and just assumed the car had been hammered on the test drives

That and being switched on with the AC running but not moving for a much higher percentage than a private vehicle would as the sales people show customers all the features and functions.

You see the same for petrol/hybrid demonstrators/used vehicles with mpg figures very low as they are sitting there idling for long periods of time.

[wivenhoe]

Mine showed 240 on collection then very quickly after I drove went to 220 & 185. Always starts at 220 now - a lot of duel carriageway 70mph 

[talaipwros]

what happened?

[wivenhoe]

Lexus may have banned dealers from selling on CarWow - they are getting tough with dealers. Last month they withdrew the franchise from Marshall group - the guys that bought Marshall’s particularly for the Lexus franchises are not best pleased. 
 

[talaipwros]

32 minutes ago, wivenhoe said:

Lexus may have banned dealers from selling on CarWow - they are getting tough with dealers. Last month they withdrew the franchise from Marshall group - the guys that bought Marshall’s particularly for the Lexus franchises are not best pleased. 
 

What you say makes sense but actually it was a glitch.

A couple of hours ago I managed to get the same offer ( much to my delight as I will use it on Monday's negotiations)

[wivenhoe]

Will be interesting to see if they match it - also if the part x offers are holding up. 

[talaipwros]

7 minutes ago, wivenhoe said:

Will be interesting to see if they match it - also if the part x offers are holding up. 

Well, they will have to, if not I am simply not buying