Test Drive

[wivenhoe]

33 minutes ago, talaipwros said:

Yeap, that's what dealer told me today, fingers crossed he knows what he is talking about.

We'll see. He knows he made a blunder with my order, (he was a bit apologetic) and  that I expect a significant discount if I am to keep the vehicle

Out of interest what was the blunder ? Are you still going ahead with the test drive after being unimpressed with the interior. I have the Ultrasuede and compared to good quality leather it doesn’t look as prestigious but is very comfortable and practical. I was in a RZ Takumi recently with the grey interior and I found it a little gloomy compared to my Orage. The Orage has very light grey leather trim and I think suits the interior better - each to their own. What was the interior you were in ?

If you search the web for the improvements in the Toyota BZ’s range after the May update, you’ll see that there is a significantly less drop in range when using the a/c (was about 40 miles post update about 15) and an increase in range generally. I read one post where a guy said the range actual increased by about 40 miles. 

[talaipwros]

1 hour ago, wivenhoe said:

Out of interest what was the blunder ? Are you still going ahead with the test drive after being unimpressed with the interior. I have the Ultrasuede and compared to good quality leather it doesn’t look as prestigious but is very comfortable and practical. I was in a RZ Takumi recently with the grey interior and I found it a little gloomy compared to my Orage. The Orage has very light grey leather trim and I think suits the interior better - each to their own. What was the interior you were in ?

If you search the web for the improvements in the Toyota BZ’s range after the May update, you’ll see that there is a significantly less drop in range when using the a/c (was about 40 miles post update about 15) and an increase in range generally. I read one post where a guy said the range actual increased by about 40 miles. 

I am still going ahead with the test drive. I promised I will give it a fair chance before I withdraw  - if I withdraw - my £2000 deposit. If I am positively impressed and the price is right I may still go ahead

The interior was the one at Premier Plus

 

The blander is that I was originally  told that I will test drive the vehicle before it starts production, and will be able to change colour or specification etc. The discussion was something like " yeah, choose a colour now, you will be able to change it later; sure, go for the Premium plus now to secure a slot and if you like the Takumi interior better after your test drive we can always upgrade"

Few days ago I got an email that the car is ready and on its way to the dealreship. I am now unable to make any changes and obviously I haven't driven the car yet.

[wivenhoe]

If you are happier after the test drive, I’d have a look on Autotrader and find a car with a spec I wanted, having now seen and test driven the car. I’d then ask them to source that car at that price less my £ 2k deposit.
I ordered mine last May when the deposit was £ 500 and was given the opportunity to change the spec before build. I suspect that the car being offered is a cancelled order swapped to your order number - easy for Lexus or the dealer to do as the options are really only the colours. 
After driving the car for almost 2 months in relatively hot weather, I wouldn’t be without the dimming sunroof - really does reduce the heat through the roof above about 15oC. 

[John Adams]

17 hours ago, talaipwros said:

Saw it in flesh for the first time and I have to say that I am unimpressed.

The quality of materials - at least their feel - is definitely lower than the one in my RX.

OK, the bar is set high, but the two cars cost roughly the same.

 

 

Have to agree about the quality of the materials which I think is a backward step against all the previous Lexus cars I have had. In particular the ultra suede looks cheap (to me) and I would much prefer leather particularly at this price point.

I've noticed penny pinching in other areas as well. My 15 month old NX450+ which I part exchanged came with a bag for the charging cable and a zipped bag containing a towel and a pair of Lexus branded gloves. The RZ came with nothing. Also, every Lexus I have had have had came with metal tyre valve covers. The RZ has plastic ones. Again, every top of the range Lexus came with passenger memory seats. The last 2 cars have had none for the passenger.  The list goes on.They just seem to be penny pinching whilst charging a premium price. Disappointing really.

[F.A.]

I thought that Lexus had moved away from metal valve covers as they corrode and then can’t be removed. 
 

I too was disappointed with the quality of the Rz when I saw it in the show room. The paint on the black plastic / trim looked like it had been done with a rattle can and I don’t think I’ve even seen a Lexus which didn’t have gas struts for the bonnet. 

[John Adams]

6 minutes ago, F.A. said:

I thought that Lexus had moved away from metal valve covers as they corrode and then can’t be removed. 
 

I too was disappointed with the quality of the Rz when I saw it in the show room. The paint on the black plastic / trim looked like it had been done with a rattle can and I don’t think I’ve even seen a Lexus which didn’t have gas struts for the bonnet. 

I've never had a Lexus valve cover corrode and my NX I bought last year had them

[F.A.]

Just now, John Adams said:

I've never had a Lexus valve cover corrode and my NX I bought last year had them

Fair enough.
I’ve had them corrode on both of our IS250s and RX450h. Our 2017 GSF came with silver plastic ones. 

[John Adams]

29 minutes ago, F.A. said:

Fair enough.
I’ve had them corrode on both of our IS250s and RX450h. Our 2017 GSF came with silver plastic ones. 

On reflection, that probably is the reason they are now plastic. But I can honestly say that on the previous cars I have owned I've never had one corrode.

[ColinBarber]

53 minutes ago, F.A. said:

I don’t think I’ve even seen a Lexus which didn’t have gas struts for the bonnet

The original IS didn’t, nor the CT or the current UX but you would expect it on the higher end models. 

[wivenhoe]

Apologies for always appearing to be RZ defender, please remember I have come from a 2 year old Range Rover Velar that was in the garage 8 times in its 2 years I had it from new. Admittedly it was defective software and audio but drove me mad. Hopefully the RZ won’t suffer the same way. 
I understand that coming from previous Lexus’s you’re bound to compare but I think it is important to remember EV’s are different.
Say the lack of gas struts, the only reason to open the bonnet is to fill the screen wash - what 3 times a year ?

Unfortunately, most manufacturers are jumping on the cheaper eco bandwagon to provide anything bar leather. Range Rover charge £ 2k more for a vegan interior. I do miss the lush leather I had in my 2008 GS 450h but I don’t miss the poor quality leather in 3 new Merc’s and a new BMW. 
I had my car ceramic coated by a professional detailer - he said it was one of the best ‘factory finish’ cars he had detailed. I also noted in the tech spec I got from the web it confirmed that film paint protection was used instead of wax. 
Again, apologies for always looking on the bright side and perhaps not being as critical as I should be. 

[John Adams]

4 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

The original IS didn’t, nor the CT or the current UX but you would expect it on the higher end models. 

I had the original IS 200 and then IS300 (which was the best car I had) and I am sure they had gas struts but of course it  could be my memory

[John Adams]

29 minutes ago, wivenhoe said:

Apologies for always appearing to be RZ defender, please remember I have come from a 2 year old Range Rover Velar that was in the garage 8 times in its 2 years I had it from new. Admittedly it was defective software and audio but drove me mad. Hopefully the RZ won’t suffer the same way. 
I understand that coming from previous Lexus’s you’re bound to compare but I think it is important to remember EV’s are different.
Say the lack of gas struts, the only reason to open the bonnet is to fill the screen wash - what 3 times a year ?

Unfortunately, most manufacturers are jumping on the cheaper eco bandwagon to provide anything bar leather. Range Rover charge £ 2k more for a vegan interior. I do miss the lush leather I had in my 2008 GS 450h but I don’t miss the poor quality leather in 3 new Merc’s and a new BMW. 
I had my car ceramic coated by a professional detailer - he said it was one of the best ‘factory finish’ cars he had detailed. I also noted in the tech spec I got from the web it confirmed that film paint protection was used instead of wax. 
Again, apologies for always looking on the bright side and perhaps not being as critical as I should be. 

Bob, you are right with what you say. But my point about Lexus is that they always used to have the little touches that set them apart from other manufactures's which is now sadly lacking. I mentioned some of the things missing above. But for example, when the first touch screens came out they used to supply a screen cleaner spray. They also used to supply touch up paint with a proper tool kit. (which I never needed but you take my point) Also, every RX and GS I bought up to the last one came with a nice cover to put the tyre in if you had a puncture.  The last 2 RX's had nothing. It's little things like that which used to set them apart from other companies and I for one miss it.

[talaipwros]

1 minute ago, John Adams said:

It's little things like that which used to set them apart from other companies and I for one miss it.

Exactly. You want me to pay £20K more than bZ4X ? OK, give me reasons.

[ColinBarber]

27 minutes ago, John Adams said:

I had the original IS 200 and then IS300 (which was the best car I had) and I am sure they had gas struts but of course it  could be my memory

You may be right and it's my memory that is failing me. The current UX definitely doesn't have gas struts - it annoys me, not because I have to use a manual bonnet stay but that the clip that holds it in place is very stiff.

[John Adams]

I've just seen a You Tube video where it says they are discounting new RZ's in the USA by $10000 to try and shift them. I hope not because what happens in the US usually follows here.

Disclaimer: I might have listened wrong as I have just started on a sherry or two for medicinal purposes

 

[wivenhoe]

John. You didn’t mis-hear it - it’s in the title ! I couldn’t see when this was made - Tesla really shook the EV market up when overnight it discounted list prices by $ 10k. 
The EV world in the States will get even more disrupted later this year when cars and batteries that don’t have a stipulated percentage US parts and ‘minerals’ there is a loss of up to $7,500 in tax credits. Tesla can’t comply with the limits due to the constituents of the batteries. Similarly, now there is a price limit on the cost of the car to gain the tax discount - for saloons it’s $55k and for SUV’s $ 80k. Hence importers like Lexus and the Chinese companies will be fighting against US made cars with a $ 7,500 discount. 
The EU & UK are fighting over a 10% tax being applied from 2024 to EU & UK cars imported ! Ironically, this won’t affect diesel and petrol as it’s the batteries in EV’s that cannot be sourced in-country with the necessary percentage of home parts / constituents. 
I hadn’t realised that after Brexit and the adoption of WTO rules, all Chinese cars already have a 10% tariff applied. Japanese imports are subject to a tariff but it is on a reducing scale. 

Typical, UK government push EV’s then take away the discount on one and a home charger and then levy a tax on EV’s coming in but don’t do anything to support the Battery factories needed to stay in their own tax credit system. Crazy. 

[John Adams]

11 minutes ago, wivenhoe said:

John. You didn’t mis-hear it - it’s in the title ! I couldn’t see when this was made - Tesla really shook the EV market up when overnight it discounted list prices by $ 10k. 
The EV world in the States will get even more disrupted later this year when cars and batteries that don’t have a stipulated percentage US parts and ‘minerals’ there is a loss of up to $7,500 in tax credits. Tesla can’t comply with the limits due to the constituents of the batteries. Similarly, now there is a price limit on the cost of the car to gain the tax discount - for saloons it’s $55k and for SUV’s $ 80k. Hence importers like Lexus and the Chinese companies will be fighting against US made cars with a $ 7,500 discount. 
The EU & UK are fighting over a 10% tax being applied from 2024 to EU & UK cars imported ! Ironically, this won’t affect diesel and petrol as it’s the batteries in EV’s that cannot be sourced in-country with the necessary percentage of home parts / constituents. 
I hadn’t realised that after Brexit and the adoption of WTO rules, all Chinese cars already have a 10% tariff applied. Japanese imports are subject to a tariff but it is on a reducing scale. 

Typical, UK government push EV’s then take away the discount on one and a home charger and then levy a tax on EV’s coming in but don’t do anything to support the battery factories needed to stay in their own tax credit system. Crazy. 

Hi Bob. I know it's in the title but that could just be clickbait. I tried to listen to the video but being slightly p**ed through my wife plying me with booze I could have missed the salient points. Water for me from now on!

[wivenhoe]

It was the nasal Aussie accent talking about USA prices that threw you ! 

[John Adams]

36 minutes ago, wivenhoe said:

It was the nasal Aussie accent talking about USA prices that threw you ! 

It wasn't the accent that three me it was the booze. By the way, the video was first published early this morning

[LenT]

15 hours ago, John Adams said:

On reflection, that probably is the reason they are now plastic. But I can honestly say that on the previous cars I have owned I've never had one corrode.

That’s precisely the reason they are now plastic!

Some time ago, while topping up the tyre pressures at a BP site, the last dust cap wouldn’t budge.  A helpful van driver, taking pity on this struggling old bloke, appeared with a spanner that fitted the valve cap.

With one dexterous twist, he snapped the valve stem clean off the tyre - complete with dust cap still intact.  Yes, it was the only metal one out of the set.

Incidentally, because I had a SpaceSaver tyre, I was able to drive a few hundred yards to a tyre retailer and have a new TPMS valve fitted for £65.  The injectable solution would have been no solution at all!

[wivenhoe]

John. Have you noticed that you can’t have just the fan on - it always blows cold with the a/c on. There is an option to have the a/c come on with the Auto, but no matter what the setting, the fan always switches on the a/c ? My dealer is looking in to it  

Found a decent thing today. I miss the satellite view in the Sat Nav. In the Range Rover it was a built in option. Only problem was, it used a lot of data and about half way through a month it used look like a patchwork quilt as the monthly allowance had been exceeded. If you used CarPlay and Google Maps you lost the directions in the HUD. I found today, you can put a destination in the Sat Nav and then go into CarPlay Google Maps in satellite and the resolution is superb. You still get the directions in the HUD and voice from the Lexus Sat Nav as well as speed camera warnings. It’s a shame they don’t offer the satellite view, probably for the same reasons as the RR ran out of data allowance each month. I’m not concerned over the data usage on my phone as it’s a 5g with 80gb / month !

[John Adams]

13 hours ago, wivenhoe said:

John. Have you noticed that you can’t have just the fan on - it always blows cold with the a/c on. There is an option to have the a/c come on with the Auto, but no matter what the setting, the fan always switches on the a/c ? My dealer is looking in to it  

Found a decent thing today. I miss the satellite view in the Sat Nav. In the Range Rover it was a built in option. Only problem was, it used a lot of data and about half way through a month it used look like a patchwork quilt as the monthly allowance had been exceeded. If you used CarPlay and Google Maps you lost the directions in the HUD. I found today, you can put a destination in the Sat Nav and then go into CarPlay Google Maps in satellite and the resolution is superb. You still get the directions in the HUD and voice from the Lexus Sat Nav as well as speed camera warnings. It’s a shame they don’t offer the satellite view, probably for the same reasons as the RR ran out of data allowance each month. I’m not concerned over the data usage on my phone as it’s a 5g with 80gb / month !

Hi Bob

I have mine set to climate concierge and auto which I always leave like that. The AC definitely does not come on unless I switch it on manually. I only switch it on if the car is misting up in rain or if the boss is too hot. 

I've just tried it with auto and climate concierge switched off and I can put just the fan on with no AC on. 

I tried Android auto but I find it a faff having to plug it in each time so I just use the normal screen which I find ok.

[wivenhoe]

John. Thanks for trying. I tried mine again and no matter which settings are used / turned off, I cannot get anything other than chilled air out. If I turn auto and a/c off then turn the fan to say 3, chilled air comes out and the range reduces by 40 miles. I’ll let you know how I get on - I suspect I’ll be told the future update will resolve it but the good news is they have updated the map !

 

 

[John Adams]

19 hours ago, wivenhoe said:

John. Thanks for trying. I tried mine again and no matter which settings are used / turned off, I cannot get anything other than chilled air out. If I turn auto and a/c off then turn the fan to say 3, chilled air comes out and the range reduces by 40 miles. I’ll let you know how I get on - I suspect I’ll be told the future update will resolve it but the good news is they have updated the map !

 

 

What update for the map? Is this a dealer update or over the air?

[wivenhoe]

John. Losing confidence in Lexus. They told me that the error message you get when checking to see if there is a map update “There is a problem contact your dealer” is wrong. You need to insert a USB with an update on it - so manual is also wrong about OTA nap updates. But anyway, the Autumn 2022 (9 months ago) is the latest so probably 1 update per year. I said that was very poor as the speed camera data would be well out of date. Shrugged shoulders. 
They tried to convince me that the a/c always being on was normal - I explained that was wrong not least as yours works as normal. I talked to the technician and he will look into it.