Test Drive

[Whoever]

I will be back here this evening after a couple of cocktails.🍹🍸🥤.

 

Don't wait up.

[Las Palmas]

3 minutes ago, Whoever said:

I will be back here this evening after a couple of cocktails.🍹🍸🥤.

 

Don't wait up.

Hopefully after you have had the test drive.

[Whoever]

Yes, test drive today, back later.

[Las Palmas]

Test drive first.

Booze later?

[Whoever]

Yes that is the best way round😆

[Whoever]

Test drive today. Where to start?

I drove a Takumi but I am considering a Premium, so I had to ignore the switchable glass roof, head up display, ultrasuede upholstery and high definition driver's binnacle amongst other stuff.

In the metal, it is clearly a Lexus, not breathtaking to look at, but at its best from the rear three quarter angle. I was surprised at the length of the bonnet, but disappointed with the basic bonnet prop. The indicators, both front and rear are extremely puny. Nothing sequential here. The interior is spacious and airy, with a minimum of piano black plastic.

The ride is luxurious and the acceleration is spectacular. Brakes are excellent and the regen paddles present quite a range of pressure, although I couldn't see any indication of the level I was using on any screen .

But shall we talk about range? The car was fully charged and showed a range of 176 miles with AC on. Switch off the AC and the range climbed to 220. Switching between the driving modes did not seem to affect the predicted miles, but there was only 330 miles on the clock so perhaps the car didn't have much driving history to work on. The sport mode seemed to replicate the feeling of an ICE car and held no appeal to me. Eco mode seemed to work very well, and Range mode just seemed to turn off the AC.

The driving binnacle seemed a bit muddled, a lot of information but with small symbols/lettering. I didn't try the rear cabin as I don't intend to carry passengers! The infotainment screen disappointed me. You can have only have one function showing at a time, and switching between screens was not intuitive. The trunk seemed adequate.

The navigation was irksome. For instance, one female voice would tell you to take the second exit from the roundabout but “her sister” (different voice) would say “towards....”.

Lots of speed limit bongs.

Lexus Voice Assist would open all windows but not close them! It didn't recognise my requests for various radio stations. Not particularly premium.

So, overall, I would say that as an electric Lexus, the RZ450E is “OK”. I don't like German cars so my selection pool is shallow. I think the Genesis GV60 (my price range) runs it close.

No discount offered at all, other than the pre-order pre-increase price. The trade-in offer is OK but could be £1k better.

I am happy to answer any questions but any reply would be, of course, in my humble opinion.

As a reference point, I currently drive a Range Rover Evoque PHEV R Dynamic SE (not the top spec but reasonably high up).

[talaipwros]

4 minutes ago, Whoever said:

The car was fully charged and showed a range of 176 miles with AC on.

😢

[John Adams]

11 hours ago, Whoever said:

Test drive today. Where to start?

I drove a Takumi but I am considering a Premium, so I had to ignore the switchable glass roof, head up display, ultrasuede upholstery and high definition driver's binnacle amongst other stuff.

In the metal, it is clearly a Lexus, not breathtaking to look at, but at its best from the rear three quarter angle. I was surprised at the length of the bonnet, but disappointed with the basic bonnet prop. The indicators, both front and rear are extremely puny. Nothing sequential here. The interior is spacious and airy, with a minimum of piano black plastic.

The ride is luxurious and the acceleration is spectacular. Brakes are excellent and the regen paddles present quite a range of pressure, although I couldn't see any indication of the level I was using on any screen .

But shall we talk about range? The car was fully charged and showed a range of 176 miles with AC on. Switch off the AC and the range climbed to 220. Switching between the driving modes did not seem to affect the predicted miles, but there was only 330 miles on the clock so perhaps the car didn't have much driving history to work on. The sport mode seemed to replicate the feeling of an ICE car and held no appeal to me. Eco mode seemed to work very well, and Range mode just seemed to turn off the AC.

The driving binnacle seemed a bit muddled, a lot of information but with small symbols/lettering. I didn't try the rear cabin as I don't intend to carry passengers! The infotainment screen disappointed me. You can have only have one function showing at a time, and switching between screens was not intuitive. The trunk seemed adequate.

The navigation was irksome. For instance, one female voice would tell you to take the second exit from the roundabout but “her sister” (different voice) would say “towards....”.

Lots of speed limit bongs.

Lexus Voice Assist would open all windows but not close them! It didn't recognise my requests for various radio stations. Not particularly premium.

So, overall, I would say that as an electric Lexus, the RZ450E is “OK”. I don't like German cars so my selection pool is shallow. I think the Genesis GV60 (my price range) runs it close.

No discount offered at all, other than the pre-order pre-increase price. The trade-in offer is OK but could be £1k better.

I am happy to answer any questions but any reply would be, of course, in my humble opinion.

As a reference point, I currently drive a Range Rover Evoque PHEV R Dynamic SE (not the top spec but reasonably high up).

Good review but I think the range would be the killer for me at that price. Disappointed that the there is just a bonnet stay for an expensive premium car. Also, did you notice the charge flap? I have read reports that this is also very flimsy. Did you dim the pano roof and did it work well? I have the Takumi on order and currently on a ship. But I am having serious doubts particularly with the range

[Whoever]

2 hours ago, John Adams said:

Disappointed that the there is just a bonnet stay for an expensive premium car. Also, did you notice the charge flap? I have read reports that this is also very flimsy. Did you dim the pano roof and did it work well?

I did indeed try the charge flap because I had read the same as you. It was thin (and large) but it didn't feel like plastic. A bit like my Evoque. I was not keen on the hinge over the AC part of the charge port. Just about every other EV has a rubber pull off section which is much better.

I tried the roof, and it was a sunny day. I didn't notice any dramatic change in the light of the cabin when switching but the sun was not directly overhead. Therefore I will reserve judgement. 

 

[javadude]

17 hours ago, Whoever said:

The car was fully charged and showed a range of 176 miles with AC on.

Ouch. Someone tell Lexus its 2023.  😢 

[wivenhoe]

After my test drive I posted my thoughts on a different thread. The research after this confirmed that all EV’s suffer big range reductions as a result of the a/c or heaters - study found between 11% - 17%. In my test drive the car was charged at about 80% showing 195 miles range without the a/c and 160 with it on full blast. 

As I am getting my car next week (I’ve seen it at the dealers) I am ploughing through the manual. Rather than turning the a/c or heating off, if there is only 2 of you the system can be set to only heat / cool the front. Using the heated / ventilated seats doesn’t affect the range and the radiant heaters will reduce the range significantly less than heating on full blast. This in addition to pre-heating / cooling should improve the range. 
If I were a company car driver, driving regular long distances I probably wouldn’t buy an RZ but for my usage its range is fine. The efficiency of miles / Kw seems good and nobody else warrants that the Battery will not be depleted below 90% over 10 years. VW, Tesla, Kia etc warrant 70% in 8 years. I was very tempted by Genesis, their batteries are covered for up to 10 years but depletion doesn’t seem to be covered. 
As I intend to keep the car for some time,  the confidence to provide such a small Battery depletion and extended warranty up to 10 years was a winner for me.

I read loads of reviews not only criticising the range but charging speed. I looked into this and using a 150kw rapid charger (10% - 80%) for the RZ took about 10 mins longer than the cars they were praising - every day that might be a consideration but for occasional long journeys is it that important ?

As you can tell, I am taken with the RZ and I am sure it won’t be back to the dealers about 8 times in 2 years as my bought from new Range Rover Velar P400e has been 

[talaipwros]

All the best, we are expecting detailed real life long term review!

[wivenhoe]

So, collected my Takumi today. Initial disappointments were despite all the marketing info saying otherwise, Remote Parking is not available (it is under development). I only received one key and no 'card', this is also under development !  I have lodged a complaint about the Remote Parking with Lexus UK Customer Service and I'll post on here what they say.

Everything else - really good. My findings are after coming out of a Range Rover Velar P400e HSE with £ 10k of options. 

With 15 miles on 'the clock' and temperature reporting 20 C, the range - fully charged it showed 245 m. Turned A/C on Low (on for all car not just the front), reduced mileage to 196. Cooled the car and turned A/C but seat vents on and range went back to about 235 after doing about 5 miles with the A/C on.

Having read the owners manual I managed to turn off all the bongs for the driver assistance and over speed and lower the sensitivity of the all the 'protection'. This then drove the same as the Velar - slight nudge if changing lane without signalling - you can turn it off entirely but I think a nudge is ok.

The sunroof dimming seemed to just turn it milky white but I'm not sure whether it did reduce the heat - quite a warm day.

The electric door opening and feel of the doors certainly makes it feel a prestige car. The Ultra Suede is excellent - see how hard wearing it is. I'm having the car ceramic coated and will have the seats treated as well - I had that on Velar and the near white leather seats after 2 years looked like new.

The seats are really comfortable - I'm 6' 2" but I think it a little mean not to have an extendable cushion - just meant I had to put the seat back a bit further to extend for 'level' legs. I will miss the massage seats in the last 3 cars.

Headroom for me is ample - despite being 6' 2" I could raise the seat and still have plenty of headroom - advantage of a fixed relatively thin fixed panoramic roof. Let's in far more light than the black roofs in my previous cars.

The HUD is a vast improvement to the previous ones from Merc, BMW and Range Rover. Really crisp and informative with novel arrows - when you see it, you'll know what I mean.

Whilst writing this the car has been on my Hypervolt charger (this is my second charger and they are excellent) and it has just finished - The Lexus Link App is reporting 244 miles range and 195 with full A/C.

The Connected Services take up to 24 hours so I'll post how they are when they are set up.

Overall I am really pleased and whilst the range will not suit some people, I am very happy that 240 miles is real but of course not with the A/C or doing 70 mph. I have researched the charging and as long as you're prepared to pay a premium price there seems plenty of availability of 150kw charger - 79p / kw so about £ 40 to 80%. 

Hope this is informative and a little reassuring for anyone still sticking with the thought of purchasing.

[John Adams]

21 hours ago, wivenhoe said:

So, collected my Takumi today. Initial disappointments were despite all the marketing info saying otherwise, Remote Parking is not available (it is under development). I only received one key and no 'card', this is also under development !  I have lodged a complaint about the Remote Parking with Lexus UK Customer Service and I'll post on here what they say.

Everything else - really good. My findings are after coming out of a Range Rover Velar P400e HSE with £ 10k of options. 

With 15 miles on 'the clock' and temperature reporting 20 C, the range - fully charged it showed 245 m. Turned A/C on Low (on for all car not just the front), reduced mileage to 196. Cooled the car and turned A/C but seat vents on and range went back to about 235 after doing about 5 miles with the A/C on.

Having read the owners manual I managed to turn off all the bongs for the driver assistance and over speed and lower the sensitivity of the all the 'protection'. This then drove the same as the Velar - slight nudge if changing lane without signalling - you can turn it off entirely but I think a nudge is ok.

The sunroof dimming seemed to just turn it milky white but I'm not sure whether it did reduce the heat - quite a warm day.

The electric door opening and feel of the doors certainly makes it feel a prestige car. The Ultra Suede is excellent - see how hard wearing it is. I'm having the car ceramic coated and will have the seats treated as well - I had that on Velar and the near white leather seats after 2 years looked like new.

The seats are really comfortable - I'm 6' 2" but I think it a little mean not to have an extendable cushion - just meant I had to put the seat back a bit further to extend for 'level' legs. I will miss the massage seats in the last 3 cars.

Headroom for me is ample - despite being 6' 2" I could raise the seat and still have plenty of headroom - advantage of a fixed relatively thin fixed panoramic roof. Let's in far more light than the black roofs in my previous cars.

The HUD is a vast improvement to the previous ones from Merc, BMW and Range Rover. Really crisp and informative with novel arrows - when you see it, you'll know what I mean.

Whilst writing this the car has been on my Hypervolt charger (this is my second charger and they are excellent) and it has just finished - The Lexus Link App is reporting 244 miles range and 195 with full A/C.

The Connected Services take up to 24 hours so I'll post how they are when they are set up.

Overall I am really pleased and whilst the range will not suit some people, I am very happy that 240 miles is real but of course not with the A/C or doing 70 mph. I have researched the charging and as long as you're prepared to pay a premium price there seems plenty of availability of 150kw charger - 79p / kw so about £ 40 to 80%. 

Hope this is informative and a little reassuring for anyone still sticking with the thought of purchasing.

Thanks for the report Bob.  I've just returned the demo car after 3 days and mine is due end of the month if I proceed with purchase.  With regards remote parking, Is this on the app? I saw a button for parking on the dash board as in my NX but didn't try it.  Incidentally I drove 370 miles on the test and averaged 3miles/kwh. Also, did you receive the locking wheel nuts with the car? My demo card didn't have any fitted and the dealer said they were in short supply and  mine may have to be supplied after delivery

[wivenhoe]

John - Thanks I’ll check the locking wheel nut tomorrow. The Remote Parking isn’t in the App and the button below the screen is for auto parking, it’s alongside the camera button. 
My dealer is really embarrassed that Remote Parking is in the brochure yet not available. They are in talks with Lexus UK over it plus the lack of second key, the driving aids reverting to default instead of being saved in My Settings and the lack of ‘send to car’ in the App despite the Lexus video showing it !

I’m fairly resigned to these sort of ‘issues’ having had the same experience on my previous new Range Rover and new BMW. Audi had a fairly major issue with their infotainment system and told clients it would take 9 months to sort. Even Porsche have had major software issues - the launch of the electric Macan has been delayed over 6+ months - https://www.motor1.com/news/616223/porsche-macan-ev-delayed-2024/

In my case, getting 90% residual on the Velar after 2 years against the RZ was a no brainer - I can’t see the residuals remaining that strong so keeping it another year could have cost me say £ 25k. On that basis, a few grumbles with the RZ are inconsequential. The projected residual of the RZ is 57% to 59% at 3 years by What Car so pretty strong. I’m thinking that a lot of Lexus buyers are not business users so the lack of competitive range won’t be so important to them. Hope springs eternal. 
Good luck deciding and making the right choice. 
 

[Whoever]

On 5/11/2023 at 10:31 PM, wivenhoe said:

In my case, getting 90% residual on the Velar after 2 years against the RZ was a no brainer

I was guaranteed 91% of the price I paid on my 25 month old Evoque but I cancelled my order today.

 

On 5/11/2023 at 10:31 PM, wivenhoe said:

The projected residual of the RZ is 57% to 59% at 3 years by What Car so pretty strong.

As a cash buyer I would worry (in three years time) about trying to sell a car with only 220-230 miles of range with many newer models competing against it by then (eg Cupra Tavascan).

I am very close to completing a deal on a Genesis GV60 with all the bells and whistles, delivery in 5 months. I do not expect my residual to crash before then - I have been watching my car's value over the last year and the drop in value is slow.  

As a matter of interest, my car would have been delivered in July or August. The current biggest discounter, Carfile.net, use a London area Lexus dealer, with delivery in January.

The low range did it for me. Also, the wildly varying projections when turning the AC off and on. My anxious wife would have been charging to 100% for every trip! By all accounts, the Genesis has one of the most accurate range projections out there.

I may well try Lexus again in a few years, but for now I will go elsewhere.

On 5/11/2023 at 10:31 PM, wivenhoe said:

Good luck deciding and making the right choice. 

Here here!

[wivenhoe]

Good luck with the Genesis. I kept going back to look at a GV70 but decided to stick with the Lexus. Mostly as the true range on the GV70 was only about 20 miles more, the lack of dealerships IF something goes wrong (I wasn’t confident in their assurances about collecting / dropping off and then also the Battery warranty covering degradation above 30% and not 10% like Lexus. I doubt I’ll keep the car for 10 years but the degradation could occur in the early years. That said, with 30% degradation the GV60 would still be about the same as the RZ !

I use this site - if you haven’t seen it before have a look at the GV60 figures - https://ev-database.org/uk/car/1647/Genesis-GV60-Premium

[Whoever]

👍

[F.A.]

You won’t be disappointed with Genesis.  Their customer service from pre purchase to after sale has been excellent, with our Electrified GV70. Whether this will last as more cars are purchased, time will tell. 

[wivenhoe]

F.A. - what range are you getting for fast driving with the air on on ?

[F.A.]

We get a real world range of 200 -220 miles driving no different to how we drove our RX. No effort to try and improve the range or hyper milling etc. AC on full car ( not just driver) and a mix of motorway and town driving. The potential is there to improve on this range but we have no need. We have a charger at home and at one of our business premises, so all very convenient. 

[wivenhoe]

Not too dissimilar too what I am finding the RZ maybe 10% more. Having the front only a/c on is fine for us. When I looked at the G70 I thought it was similar to the RZ range wise. Glad your enjoying it !

[John Adams]

On 5/10/2023 at 6:50 PM, wivenhoe said:

So, collected my Takumi today. Initial disappointments were despite all the marketing info saying otherwise, Remote Parking is not available (it is under development). I only received one key and no 'card', this is also under development !  I have lodged a complaint about the Remote Parking with Lexus UK Customer Service and I'll post on here what they say.

Everything else - really good. My findings are after coming out of a Range Rover Velar P400e HSE with £ 10k of options. 

With 15 miles on 'the clock' and temperature reporting 20 C, the range - fully charged it showed 245 m. Turned A/C on Low (on for all car not just the front), reduced mileage to 196. Cooled the car and turned A/C but seat vents on and range went back to about 235 after doing about 5 miles with the A/C on.

Having read the owners manual I managed to turn off all the bongs for the driver assistance and over speed and lower the sensitivity of the all the 'protection'. This then drove the same as the Velar - slight nudge if changing lane without signalling - you can turn it off entirely but I think a nudge is ok.

The sunroof dimming seemed to just turn it milky white but I'm not sure whether it did reduce the heat - quite a warm day.

The electric door opening and feel of the doors certainly makes it feel a prestige car. The Ultra Suede is excellent - see how hard wearing it is. I'm having the car ceramic coated and will have the seats treated as well - I had that on Velar and the near white leather seats after 2 years looked like new.

The seats are really comfortable - I'm 6' 2" but I think it a little mean not to have an extendable cushion - just meant I had to put the seat back a bit further to extend for 'level' legs. I will miss the massage seats in the last 3 cars.

Headroom for me is ample - despite being 6' 2" I could raise the seat and still have plenty of headroom - advantage of a fixed relatively thin fixed panoramic roof. Let's in far more light than the black roofs in my previous cars.

The HUD is a vast improvement to the previous ones from Merc, BMW and Range Rover. Really crisp and informative with novel arrows - when you see it, you'll know what I mean.

Whilst writing this the car has been on my Hypervolt charger (this is my second charger and they are excellent) and it has just finished - The Lexus Link App is reporting 244 miles range and 195 with full A/C.

The Connected Services take up to 24 hours so I'll post how they are when they are set up.

Overall I am really pleased and whilst the range will not suit some people, I am very happy that 240 miles is real but of course not with the A/C or doing 70 mph. I have researched the charging and as long as you're prepared to pay a premium price there seems plenty of availability of 150kw charger - 79p / kw so about £ 40 to 80%. 

Hope this is informative and a little reassuring for anyone still sticking with the thought of purchasing.

Bob, have you had any response from Lexus yet about the remote parking? Also, any more info on range in every day driving? Just to say, I have to make a decision by tomorrow  to cancel or confirm the order. I am genuinely in two minds mainly about the range. I would hate to buy it and then find they put a bigger Battery in later down the line

[wivenhoe]

Dealer told me today Remote Parking is not, nor will be available. They haven’t installed the necessary hardware. Will now escalate it to Lexus UK. 
I am finding the range to be better than expected. High speed runs with part time aircon seem to use less Battery than indicated or expected. Yesterday I did 43 miles according to the car and Tracker. It was 70% dual carriageway at 70 mph with the aircon set to 17C for about half the time - the range reduced by 48 miles so doing 70mph and 50% aircon used only 5 additional miles of range.
On a full charge at say 15 - 20c the range predicts 225 or 185 with aircon so a loss of say 20%. My previous journeys and yesterday’s indicated with 50% aircon and high speed about 10% loss. I may be wrong but I think the range predictions are deliberately pessimistic.
As I confirmed in an earlier post, the charge rate of 10% - 80% in less than 30 mins on a 150kw charger is correct so all those reports about taking an hour+ must have been on faulty chargers. 
I don’t think there will be a larger Battery version of the RZ anytime soon, probably a different model. I am expecting them to increase the range by offering a slower single  motor version. 
One thing I meant to try was to run on Range Mode - this restricts to just one motor and turns aircon off and limits speed to 60mph. That would be an indicator of what a single motor version’s range would be. 
I am biased, but I don’t regret for a moment swapping my Range Rover Velar plug-in for the RZ. I have done almost 700 miles and the car just seems to get better - bongs aside, although I do have a ‘start up procedure’ now !

Good luck making the right decision - my question would be, if not the RZ then what ? The similar size and price Genesis G70 has a reported range of 20 miles more. Whilst the Tesla Model Y has a far greater range and is significantly cheaper do you think that you’ll get the build quality and finish of a RZ. You pays your money …….!

[John Adams]

14 hours ago, wivenhoe said:

Dealer told me today Remote Parking is not, nor will be available. They haven’t installed the necessary hardware. Will now escalate it to Lexus UK. 
I am finding the range to be better than expected. High speed runs with part time aircon seem to use less battery than indicated or expected. Yesterday I did 43 miles according to the car and Tracker. It was 70% dual carriageway at 70 mph with the aircon set to 17C for about half the time - the range reduced by 48 miles so doing 70mph and 50% aircon used only 5 additional miles of range.
On a full charge at say 15 - 20c the range predicts 225 or 185 with aircon so a loss of say 20%. My previous journeys and yesterday’s indicated with 50% aircon and high speed about 10% loss. I may be wrong but I think the range predictions are deliberately pessimistic.
As I confirmed in an earlier post, the charge rate of 10% - 80% in less than 30 mins on a 150kw charger is correct so all those reports about taking an hour+ must have been on faulty chargers. 
I don’t think there will be a larger battery version of the RZ anytime soon, probably a different model. I am expecting them to increase the range by offering a slower single  motor version. 
One thing I meant to try was to run on Range Mode - this restricts to just one motor and turns aircon off and limits speed to 60mph. That would be an indicator of what a single motor version’s range would be. 
I am biased, but I don’t regret for a moment swapping my Range Rover Velar plug-in for the RZ. I have done almost 700 miles and the car just seems to get better - bongs aside, although I do have a ‘start up procedure’ now !

Good luck making the right decision - my question would be, if not the RZ then what ? The similar size and price Genesis G70 has a reported range of 20 miles more. Whilst the Tesla Model Y has a far greater range and is significantly cheaper do you think that you’ll get the build quality and finish of a RZ. You pays your money …….!

Thanks for all the info Bob.

I've been a Lexus customer for many years and this is the first time  I've been hesitant in buying a new car from them. I've wanted an EV for some time and have patiently waited for the RZ but there seems too many niggly issues which has made me think. Particularly the video from "Car nut expert" who says it's a good bad car.

The fact that remote parking is not available because they haven't installed the necessary hardware is a disappointment.  I'm also peeved because there is only one key and the second won't be available for some months according to my dealer. Also, the locking wheel nuts will apparently be fitted in July if I buy the car. I assume Lexus will pay up if anyone should nick the wheels?

I also think the bonnet stay rather than struts is out of keeping with a 74k car.

As you say, what else is there to buy. Tesla obviously have the best charging network going but after being with Lexus -and Toyota before that- for over 35 years I couldn't live with the lack of quality, panel fits, paintwork etc. If I didn't buy the RZ I would just keep the NX for another year or two which obviously is a very good car albeit with a few niggles also.

One other thing that concerns me is that given all the Lexus cars I have bought, I have never known any dealer offer so many incentives to buy. Every time I call expressing doubts they come back with a better offer Including a massive increase in the part exchange for my NK. Now you might say it is because I have been a loyal customer and they want to keep me. Equally it could be they are not selling many and they want to get rid of them Hard to know which one.

However given the final offer they have given is superb, and after a lot of thought and discussion with the boss, I have decided to confirm my order.

Just keeping my fingers crossed that everything goes ok and I don't regret the decision.  I will keep you posted with how I get on when I take delivery next week.