Roof issue... not closing but no error code

[LexusNexus2023]

Hi...

Just bought my 2010 IS 250c, all serviced and MOT'd just before purchase, tested roof a few times.

However today after putting it down, nothing happened when I pressed the button to put it back up.

There was also no warning message/error code/sound, nothing on the dash - the button just didn't seem to do anything either way. Am I missing something really obvious? Dealer suggested Battery might have been run down, or process interrupted.

It eventually went back up after a couple of hours of trying different things under looming rainclouds (windows, clicking luggage shelf, driving/letting engine run) but there was no obvious change/fix in what I did. Only other thing is driver window is very slow to go back up.

I feel there is something obvious though... please feel free to point it out...

 

[Linas.P]

As it went back-up eventually I would say it is mechanically and electrically fine, else it would have stayed down. Can weak Battery cause? Maybe... but then as soon as you start the engine it shouldn't be the problem any longer. In fact I reckon if the Battery is too weak to close the roof, then it would be too weak to start the engine anyway, so I don't believe this is Battery issue.

If there are no error codes or messages or anything else obvious, it would be very hard for anyone here to help you. Could slow window be related with roof not closing... yes very likely... We can speculate all day long and eventually somebody may be able to guess what the problem is... however I would say it is pointless...

Because here is the thing - you mentioned the dealer, so I assume it is a company that sold you the car. Under the law they are called "car traders" and have a duty to fix the issues you have with the car, refund, pay for repairs or take the car back. Well more specifically they have duty to describe cars "truthfully" - so if they have said "this cars is discounted because driver window is slow and roof does not close from time to time", then it would be on you, but if they didn't say anything like that then it is on them. Now I know it may not be an answer you were looking for, but the best place to go in this instance is back to the dealer that sold you the car and tell them to find why the roof is not working and why window is slow, and fix both. As well if you want independent inspection (for example if dealer keeps fobbing you off with excuses), you can go to authorised workshop (i.e. Authorised Lexus Dealer) and ask them for inspection and quote (do not repair anything and do not pay anything yet!). Then you can ask the dealer who sold you the car to either cover the costs of repair (including cost of inspection), repair the car themselves or take the car back. Why is this the best way to deal with the issue? Simply because you have rights under the law when buying the car from "traders", basically a protection, "a guarantee", anything that they didn't mention is broken when selling the car is their duty to repair for free. However, if you going to start repairing it yourself, then they may say it is you who broke it and refuse to help.

So if it would be the car you have owned for long time, then yes it would make sense to identify the fault and find the cheapest way to fix it. However if you just bought the car recently form a trader, then there is no point even trying to find the solution yourself, even if it is something obvious that you missed or don't understand it is still their responsibility to show you how to use it and explain why it doesn't work. Most importantly don't try to fix it yourself, because doing so may result in them refusing to fix the car and you losing protections you are granted in law. Even if they are right and it is Battery that is weak or run down - it would be their responsibility to replace it.

[LexusNexus2023]

Thank you for this input! Appreciate it.  All makes sense. I will probably do the authorised Lexus dealer inspection and go from there.

The dealer I bought from is a few hours away which makes things slightly trickier in practical terms - though I guess in legal terms there are added protections under long-distance selling conditions, as I bought online. They called me back to do a walk-through to see what was wrong but by then it had resolved - but who knows for how long...

There is also a 3-month warranty via the dealer but it's with Handler Protect.

[Linas.P]

Distant selling does not add anything above your statutory rights in this case. It is automatic 30 days for distant selling, whereas statutory rights on used cars are "unlimited within reason" i.e. where it is reasonable to believe the fault was present before you bought the car (both are within the scope of same Consumer Rights Act 2015). But if they gave you 3 months warranty then this should be covered by it in either way, so nothing to worry about.

In this case indeed it would be reasonable to get the car investigated locally if seller is 2 hours away. At this point it really depends if you want to "play nice"... i.e. it would be considered "nice" if you inform them that you will take the car to the authorise centre close to you, but from my experience they may not be entirely happy about it. Or you can simply get a quote without telling them and just confront them with the estimate, that would not be considered "nice", but is still within your rights. They may insist taking car back or fixing it themselves (which they can do). That said, depending on terms and conditions of your 3-month warranty they may be indifferent either way e.g. where it is 3rd party warranty paying and seller is not covering the costs anyway. Handler Protect sounds exactly the type of warranty which would protect you either way, but I have not analysed their terms and conditions to be able to tell for sure. 

Final thing - I would advise to make all the communication in writing, if anything goes wrong or there is any misunderstanding, then having things in writing always going to help, even if it is SMS, Whatsapp or e-mail. Good luck with it and and let us know how it goes!

P.S. Lexus are great cars and good choice, but if you get broken one then they can be real pain to diagnose and fix. As well if we talking specifically IS250C - they are solid, but if there is one thing that could brake, then it is a roof. I would not say it is common for IS250C roofs to fail, they are probably better than competitors in this area, but compared to the rest of the car the roof is still the most likely part to fail. 

[LexusNexus2023]

Thanks, that's all very helpful. Yes, the hardtop alternatives to Lexus I was considering were Volvo C70 and VW Eos, which both seemed to have proportionately more roof issues. 

I will follow up with the dealer (in writing) and Lexus when I'm back in the car next week and update here. Will also check warranty T&Cs - I think they may restrict to certain garages but will see.

Thank you for sharing your insights!

[Beamish]

Hi Gabriella and welcome to the world of IS250C ownership.

When you said that "nothing happened" when you tried to raise the roof I'm assuming that the windows did not lower and no indication of roof operation appeared in the instrument cluster?  If this was the case then I would strongly suspect that the roof operating button may be at fault. If the button was transmitting your request to the roof control unit this would have resulted in a message appearing on the dash. As this dfid'nt happen then it would point to the switch not doing it's job.

This fault has been reported a few times on the  ClubLexus.com  owners site in the US and has been resolved by either cleaning the switch and it's connections or by replacing it.

Access to the switch should be quite straightfoward.

You mention that the drivers window is slow to raise ( and lower?). This is something you should address as the operation of the roof is depensdent on all the windows being in the fully lowered position.

I will try and find a link to the topic on the US site and will post it here if successful.

Dec.

[Beamish]

 

Here are a few links which may help.

SOLVED - top doesn't goes up and down sometimes - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion

 

 

[Southernsoarer]

Hi Gabriella and welcome to the club!

Hope this experience isn't making you have any regrets. Fingers crossed it will be something quite simple like in the video that Dec put up, maybe you could show it to the dealer and they could check the switch out?

I've owned numerous Lexus models over the years and like you recently purchased a IS250c my first ever convertible and I absolutely love it! Only problem I've had since buying it is waiting for the rain to stop!

Please let us know how you get on.

All the best,

Tony

[LexusNexus2023]

11 hours ago, Beamish said:

When you said that "nothing happened" when you tried to raise the roof I'm assuming that the windows did not lower and no indication of roof operation appeared in the instrument cluster?  If this was the case then I would strongly suspect that the roof operating button may be at fault. If the button was transmitting your request to the roof control unit this would have resulted in a message appearing on the dash. As this dfid'nt happen then it would point to the switch not doing it's job.

Yep, correct. No noise, no window movement, no sign of operation on the dash. It was like the button was just not sending a signal. Will try it again and mention the video to the dealer. The link sounded like a very similar issue. 

I had a look through the forums for similar driver's window issues and it looks like that may also be common-ish, with some scratching to the glass - it sounds like there is some grit in the mechanism. Will try cleaning the seal, otherwise will add that to the list for the dealer...did also notice a small chip in the wing mirror indicator on driver's side. But everything else seems in great condition and it runs very smoothly.

Thanks for the info and links!

[LexusNexus2023]

7 hours ago, Southernsoarer said:

Hi Gabriella and welcome to the club!

Hope this experience isn't making you have any regrets. Fingers crossed it will be something quite simple like in the video that Dec put up, maybe you could show it to the dealer and they could check the switch out?

I've owned numerous Lexus models over the years and like you recently purchased a IS250c my first ever convertible and I absolutely love it! Only problem I've had since buying it is waiting for the rain to stop!

Please let us know how you get on.

All the best,

Tony

Thank you, yes I am hoping it's something simple as I really like the car and it took a while to find one that ticked all the boxes! The actual driving experience is great. Fingers crossed...

[Beamish]

 

Hi Gabriella,

Just wondering if you managed to get your roof problem sorted out.

Dec.