Dongfeng - Look out; the East Wind is coming.

[GMB]

Dongfeng has been cropping up recently. Linas mentioned it in a recent post.

After initial scepticism their cars actually look quite nice. But an article in the Daily Express Paranoid edition this morning made me think twice.

China unleashes terrifying WW3 superweapon invisible to US defences

"The new device is described as a hypersonic intermediate-range ballistic missile and is part of the Dongfeng series - a group of missiles readymade to deliver nuclear warheads.

According to the leaked report, the weapon "possesses a high probability of penetrating" US ballistic missile defences."

It would seem that tensions in the far East are leading to China potentially chucking Dongfeng cars at infidels.

These are the latest missiles models

• 3.1 Voyah.
• 3.2 Aeolus (Fengshen)
• 3.3 Dongfeng EV.
• 3.4 Fengxing (Forthing)
• 3.5 Venucia (under Dongfeng-Nissan)
• 3.6 Fengdu (under Dongfeng-Nissan)
• 3.7 Junfeng (under DFAC)

The A9 looks good:

I wonder how much P/X I would get for my 200t against this beauty. Looks a bit Volvo/Passat-ish

[steve2006]

I’m not too concerned given they will probably catch fire before leaving the ground.

 

[GMB]

20 minutes ago, steve2006 said:

I’m not too concerned given they will probably catch fire before leaving the ground.

 

They really burn fiercely. Great for the kids on bonfire night.

[dutchie01]

Dongfeng, BYD, Zeekr, Nio, Xpeng, Vinfast, Aiways, Polestar, Leapmotor, Skywel and i could have forgotten another dozen. 

[flotsam]

BYD Seagull is sub-£8000 electric supermini for China
Four-seater is smaller than the Ford Fiesta; offers up to 100bhp and 252 miles of range

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/byd-seagull-sub-£8000-electric-supermini-china

Other articles claim it's 0~60 time is 5 seconds and it's less than 4m long. The larger Battery is only 38.88kWh, so presumably it will be cheaper to replace, assuming these things CAN be replaced.

[dutchie01]

Please do not underestimate what is happening in China. This year for the first time on the autoshow the European brands do not draw a big crowd, or a crowd at all. It seems the Chinese brands now offer what people want and that can be seen in the salesfigures. Europe is shrinking and China BEV exploding. Only time when thesame pattern will be visible overhere.

[GMB]

10 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

Please do not underestimate what is happening in China. This year for the first time on the autoshow the European brands do not draw a big crowd, or a crowd at all. It seems the Chinese brands now offer what people want and that can be seen in the salesfigures. Europe is shrinking and China BEV exploding. Only time when thesame pattern will be visible overhere.

They are preparing the ground for a massive sales push very soon.  New factories and planned sales at bargain prices from BYD alone. BYD, which markets its cars in Europe and Southeast Asia, had a 13-fold increase in exports from China over the last twelve months! They have already passed all the certification and safety requirements.

 

BYD Yangwang....

[Linas.P]

There is possible benefit for us - our "domestic" makers will have to drop prices to survive. Competition is always good for consumer... perhaps even "bad" competition like that coming from China.

Other option is obvious that our government should wake-up to the threat. You know that to own company in China one must partner with Chinese company at 51/49% share? Perhaps EU should instruct the same to Chinese companies - they stole or tech and now want to sell it back to us, at least they should pay fair share of cost then.

[Mr Vlad]

On 4/15/2023 at 10:02 AM, dutchie01 said:

Dongfeng, BYD, Zeekr, Nio, Xpeng, Vinfast, Aiways, Polestar, Leapmotor, Skywel and i could have forgotten another dozen. 

Would they come with egg fried rice and chip?  😂

[Lmafudd]

52 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Would they come with egg fried rice and chip?  😂

World-wide shortage of Chips apparently, that's why I've just planted my own spuds!

[GMB]

Quote Benny Hill circa 1970. "Fish n chips? sore finger? Plawn Clackers?"

[steve2006]

The optional extras list for BYD cars is amazing but a little restricted for UK models (115-121a)

[GMB]

116 - King Plawn Omerette sounds disgusting.

I'll have 166 please.

[Mr_Groundhog]

On 4/23/2023 at 2:34 PM, Linas.P said:

Well that is my problem with Chinese tech, their cars and everything they own. Same reason why I will never own Volvo, Polestar, MG or anything else that Chinese now own. 

Once the lines between the government and private enterprise are blurred, there is no coming back. Everything Chinese that you own can be accessed by Chinese Communist Party and used against you, or your country...

Imagine living in soviet union in 40s and stalin being able to monitor you everywhere you go, everything you say etc. Horrible right!... well the only difference it is now this guy who is listening what your thought about his rule are:

P.S. I am keeping it funny, but it is nothing funny about communism... nazis killed 10 million... communist killed at least 200-300 million in last century, so their evil should not be underestimated. 

I think it was actually 4,000,000 supermegabillions or more

..... where did i get the figure? well the same place you seem to have gotten yours 😄

Good luck not owning anything Chinese... I bet your mobile phone was made in the UK?

Also, I won't go down this rabbit hole just now, but I tried hard not to laugh with your "blurred lines" comment: anyone who has NOT been in a coma for the last 45 years (or is severly blinded by propaganda) can see that our "governments" are only legislative arms of private corporations. They largely write the laws the parties pass in parliament, oiled by the mass media in convincing the population that going against their own interests is a good thing. Governments do not have your interest at heart and if they ever do, they'll be brought down quickly as it happened many times in the past.

Have the recent Whitehall scandals (and there are many to choose from!) not been enough to clarify how "blurred" the lines between private corporation and Government are here in the UK? And how corrupt both sides have proven to be?

As for the spying thing, forgive me if you have indeed been in a coma but I dunno if you have heard of someone called Edward Snowden? Back in the day it used to be a conspiracy theory to think that we're spied on all the time, and that anything you do anywhere can (and will be) used against you by the Mi5 or Mi6 if needed... that all operative systems have backdoors for the NSA....etc etc.
Now we know it is a fact. Not debatable. How is that any different? Most of the time they don't even need to make an effort... We actually give away all our info, willingly, to thousands of corporations who know every detail of what we say and do, and we don't get a cent for it, but we as a society, don't care. 

I know of this fella, Julain Assange, who's been imprisioned for a long time for simply fair journalisim: publishing verified matierial. Scapegoated to send a message; how is that in any way democratic? How is something we're doing not something that Russia or China would do just the same?
Last but not least, a link on why we're not in a position to lecture

 

[Mr_Groundhog]

On 4/23/2023 at 2:40 PM, GMB said:

They are preparing the ground for a massive sales push very soon.  New factories and planned sales at bargain prices from BYD alone. BYD, which markets its cars in Europe and Southeast Asia, had a 13-fold increase in exports from China over the last twelve months! They have already passed all the certification and safety requirements.

 

BYD Yangwang....

If they're smart to bring back good saloons, good estate cars and good coupes, they'll find lots of people tired of SUVs

[Mr_Groundhog]

On 4/23/2023 at 3:08 PM, Linas.P said:

There is possible benefit for us - our "domestic" makers will have to drop prices to survive. Competition is always good for consumer... perhaps even "bad" competition like that coming from China.

Other option is obvious that our government should wake-up to the threat. You know that to own company in China one must partner with Chinese company at 51/49% share? Perhaps EU should instruct the same to Chinese companies - they stole or tech and now want to sell it back to us, at least they should pay fair share of cost then.

They realised we're (we and our governments) stupid enough to believe that "free market" narrative and have used it to their advantage because it is in itself a trap for fools.
But wait, isn't your comment advocating for more government intervention of the "free market" ?

[GMB]

13 minutes ago, Mr_Groundhog said:

our "governments" are only legislative arms of private corporations. They largely write the laws the parties pass in parliament, oiled by the mass media in convincing the population that going against their own interests is a good thing. Governments do not have your interest at heart and if they ever do, they'll be brought down quickly as it happened many times in the past.

Have the recent Whitehall scandals (and there are many to choose from!) not been enough to clarify how "blurred" the lines between private corporation and Government are here in the UK? And how corrupt both sides have proven to be?

Well said Mr_Groundhog. I thought that I was the only one who realised this, especially when all the evidence is there. Such as The Truss budget debacle instantly trashed by big business pressure.

The sad thing is that no-one will do anything about it. We are too deep in the proverbial for that.

[Las Palmas]

Quote from Donald Duck:

All "ISM's" are bad.

Do not roll the dice!

Use uour head!

 

[GMB]

Well someone has rattled Linas' cage!

In an attempt to pour oil over troubled waters may I say that you both have valid arguments and very interesting too.

I have lived and worked abroad for many years ( I even get a French pension which is a damn sight better that the pittance you get here in the UK )  and have friends in other countries, and that has taught me a few things about freedom of speech and Government censorship of the truth in the UK.

One last "friendly 🙂please" comment. I cannot remember who told me this but; it is the winners that write the history books.

 

BTW - Just think even today Nurses strikes illegal - Sounds a bit like China to me.

[GMB]

I agree. It really is shocking...and it goes on.

I think I had better get a cup of tea now.🫖

[dutchie01]

Oooof, let me recap for a moment. We started with a Car manufacturer called Dongfeng went from Winny the Pooh to Benny Hill, Had dinner in a Chinese restaurant with King Plawns, visited China then discussed Nazism and went into the history of communism. Not a bad for a thread is it?

 To be fair i think the entire population is suffering from short term memory loss. What happened 50 yrs ago is already forgotten and history does not seem to be very popular in education and in general society. For me it is absolutely shocking and infuriating if i see people taking smiling selfies in Auschwitz, but hey who am i. Maybe the younger generation puts it all in a different perspective. 

Regarding communism i fully and totally agree. I have been visiting Russia frequently in the past and always found it depressing. The dark history, the total uncertainty of everything, the lawlessness and egoism stemming from that. The State as untouchable entity that can and will decide about your life. History always seems to repeat itself. 

[dutchie01]

So, back to the car industry then and the East Wind is coming. When Tesla started in Europe some 10 years ago they immediately succeeded in getting lots of sales. All company cars with help of massive taxbreaks. I can remember thinking hey that would have been a BMW or Merc but it now is a Tesla. Same i predict with the Chinese brands coming in rapidly. Biggest battle will be in the medium segment, the Peugeots, Citroens, Volkswagens etc. What is their future? How will the market be in 5 years time? And what about Lexus?

[Linas.P]

I personally don't think chiense will take Europe with cars called BigDong and DogDing... but much more dangerous are the Volvos, the Polestars, the MGs...Lotus as well! The brands we know and some of which we love. People may not recognise to whom they are paying the money... in fact people are not recognising that and will not recognise it in future. 

I find Volvo particularly disturbing. In 2020 EU decided to fit the cars with ability to record and report the speed, I think it is mandatory since 2022... I am strongly against it obviously, but the narrative of (false) "safety" won. Some car manufacturers tried a little bit to oppose it, but pretty much rolled over... Do you know who was the first company to implement it without anyone even asking? It was Volvo... from 2019 onwards all Volvo have the system which can restrict your speed and it can report when you speeding directly to police. I am not saying it does, but it has all necessary hardware and software to do it. All Chinese cars had it since like 2015. It may be conspiracy, but I wonder if that has anything to do with Volvo owners?

And by the way I said I will refuse to buy car with such system or if there is going to be no other choice I will find the way to disable it and if possible outright remove from the car. I am sure it can't be that hard - antenna for network disconnected and they can collect whatever they like, they won't be able to send anything out. But that is also a thing which is coming... and seems even @Mr_Groundhog would agree with me that this isn't a good sign. 

[GMB]

Interesting article in Auto express this week backs up what we are all suspecting:

 

“BYD overtaking VW in China signals a tectonic shift in the global car industry” | Auto Express

“BYD overtaking VW in China signals a tectonic shift in the global car industry”

Dr Andy Palmer sees the dramatic rise of BYD as just the start of huge, China-driven change on the car manufacturing scene

His final paragraph is interesting: 

Ultimately, the rise of BYD as China's best-selling car brand signals a fundamental shift in the global auto industry. With state subsidies playing a crucial role in bolstering domestic EV manufacturers, it is clear that China's automotive ambitions extend far beyond its borders. As the balance of power in the global auto industry tilts East, the ramifications for both the industry and geopolitics could be profound.

[GMB]

Look out Lexus!