E10 compatibility

[Lex_utor]

I know this is probably old news to most of you. But over here E10 only arrived this year. My car is not E10 compatible. For now, not a huge deal as it seems to affect 95 only and I always filled 98. But makes you wonder how long they will sell E5 98, or eventually push it to only the more expensive 100.

I'm also wondering what this will do to the value of cars. I have invested quite a bit in my car.

I know post 2007 IS are E10 compatible though. I guess the engines are the same and only parts are changed to be compatible? But I'm thinking it's not feasible to even try to make your engine compatible or even swap in a post 2007 engine as most likely the tank and fuel lines will need to be swapped. Although I just had a "new" tank put in and I think that was from a newer IS, as it looked almost new.

How did you or are you dealing with the E10 issue if you owned or own a pre 2007 IS?

Thanks.

[Lex_utor]

I found a post on another IS forum saying apparently the only parts which are different in the E10 compatible IS made post 2007 are the plastic fuel pump basket, and a rubber O-ring beneath it, and that maybe changing that would make or help the car deal with E10. That's interesting. But nobody has tried it.

[Mr Vlad]

Yes I've seen that. I use more E10 than E5. But I use Millers EPS (ethanol protection system) additive. I've found I'm getting better mileage which is surprising considering what's been said quite a few times that E10 gives worse mileage. Must be the additive. 

[Linas.P]

4 hours ago, Lex_utor said:

I know this is probably old news to most of you. But over here E10 only arrived this year.

I have lived in Europe and cheapest fuel was always E85 and as far as I know everyone ran old Lexus on E85 without any issues. Note E85 has 85% ethanol, E10 only 10% of ethanol. 

Now I am not saying that I recommend using E85, but whole Europe is running cars on it and if that doesn't cause issues for IS250, then I doubt E10 will.

My only gripe with E10 is that it is 3% worse on fuel economy, but still costs the same... at least E85 is significantly cheaper e.g. in Germany if you refuelling on autobahn the E95 was like 1.94 Euro, E98 2.02, E10 1.82 and E85 was 1.56 (or at least it was when I last been driving there). So you get what you paying for... but when they replaced E95 in UK with E10, they just replaced it like for like as if you buying same product. 

[Lex_utor]

1 hour ago, Mr Vlad said:

Yes I've seen that. I use more E10 than E5. But I use Millers EPS (ethanol protection system) additive. I've found I'm getting better mileage which is surprising considering what's been said quite a few times that E10 gives worse mileage. Must be the additive. 

2007 is on the boarder right? I think early 2007 is not E10 compatible and late 2007 is? Your 2007 is or not E10 compatible? If not, how long have you been running it mostly on E10?

[Lex_utor]

30 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

I have lived in Europe and cheapest fuel was always E85 and as far as I know everyone ran old Lexus on E85 without any issues. Note E85 has 85% ethanol, E10 only 10% of ethanol. 

Now I am not saying that I recommend using E85, but whole Europe is running cars on it and if that doesn't cause issues for IS250, then I doubt E10 will.

My only gripe with E10 is that it is 3% worse on fuel economy, but still costs the same... at least E85 is significantly cheaper e.g. in Germany if you refuelling on autobahn the E95 was like 1.94 Euro, E98 2.02, E10 1.82 and E85 was 1.56 (or at least it was when I last been driving there). So you get what you paying for... but when they replaced E95 in UK with E10, they just replaced it like for like as if you buying same product. 

So it seems you gentlemen are saying that running it on E10 will probably be no problem? 

[Linas.P]

I would say - use at your own risk, but at the same time I was using E10/E85 for years on cars that are allegedly not compatible. I would not recommend leaving E85 in the tank for long time, but apart of that I never had any issues. Fuel economy should be worse because that is chemistry - ethanol just has less specific energy in the same volume. In my experience it is never direct impact e.g. E10 should be 3% less efficient, but in practice it is usually 1% less efficient... my guess - car ECU adjust the timing etc. and he car simply makes little bit less power on E10. As well I guess difference on E10 is too small to notice, but I have certainly noticed the difference on E85. On E98 I could get my IS250 to 240km/h, but with tank full of E85 I could barely reach 220km/h... from ~215km/h it was slowly creeping-up, but it just felt like engine was down on power (which is to be expected). 

[Bluemarlin]

Obviously it will vary from car to car, but technically mine will run on E10. I've tried various fuels and, on average I get around 25mpg or less on E10, worst for me being Sainsburys. However, if I use Shell E5, or Esso Premium (zero ethanol), I average around 31 mpg.

As a result, I now don't bother with E10 as, with the extra mpg, I figure that the costs more or less balance out, at least enough so that it doesn't really matter.

[Mr Vlad]

Lex. My car was registered June 07 so it falls within the not compatible to use E10.

[Sundance]

15 hours ago, Lex_utor said:

How did you or are you dealing with the E10 issue if you owned or own a pre 2007 IS?

When I had my '06 IS250 (incompatible) I dealt with the E10 issue by using E5  🤷‍♂️ ... simples.

My replacement 'LexBus' is E10 compatible but I tend to alternate with E5 so I guess you could say I'm running on E7.5. Varies between 25 and 34mph, depending upon who, where, why and how I'm driving. 😉

[Lex_utor]

Alright. So it seems it's not as bad as I thought. 🙂 Here we still have 98 and 100, both of which are ok. I have mainly used 98 anyways. I just fear they will keep raising the price on those and eventually phase out and leave only E10. But if they do, it's good to know I could still run the car on E10 with maybe an additive or just try to change the 2 parts which are different in the 2008 and up IS250.

[Thelongterm]

What is this fuel pump 'basket' looks like?!

Viewing at the pics online, the pump is secured at the top of the tank, under the rear seats and held by eight bolts, can't see anything holding it other than the top mount.

[MrTrendizzle]

On 4/14/2023 at 8:09 AM, Lex_utor said:

I found a post on another IS forum saying apparently the only parts which are different in the E10 compatible IS made post 2007 are the plastic fuel pump basket, and a rubber O-ring beneath it, and that maybe changing that would make or help the car deal with E10. That's interesting. But nobody has tried it.

No-one has changed it because it's not broken yet.  
I've driven roughly 8000+ miles with nothing but E10 and i can say i've not had a single thing go wrong with my car. I'm fully aware i will have to change some gaskets and seals at some point. I'm just waiting for the smell of fuel to get in to the cabin or engine bay before i dive in and start replacing parts.  

From what i understand the part number for anything non E10 compatible are the exact same part numbers for E10 compatible versions. So i assume Boosch updated their rubber compound just after 2007 which made them compatible and instead of Lexus doing a giant recall to swap out the odd rubber gasket they just found it cheaper and easier to deem pre 2008 cars non compatible.  

Honestly the only change i can really claim is a lack of power. If i reset the ECU and fill with E5 the car seems perky, do it with E10 and it's a little more flat. But that could just be in my head but that's how it feels to me. Ow and the MPG DOES reduce on E10... 20/24mpg on the 6mile (There and back twice a day) school run vs 26/28mpg with E5 over 2 weeks.

[Lex_utor]

On 4/21/2023 at 3:43 PM, MrTrendizzle said:

No-one has changed it because it's not broken yet.  
I've driven roughly 8000+ miles with nothing but E10 and i can say i've not had a single thing go wrong with my car. I'm fully aware i will have to change some gaskets and seals at some point. I'm just waiting for the smell of fuel to get in to the cabin or engine bay before i dive in and start replacing parts.  

From what i understand the part number for anything non E10 compatible are the exact same part numbers for E10 compatible versions. So i assume Boosch updated their rubber compound just after 2007 which made them compatible and instead of Lexus doing a giant recall to swap out the odd rubber gasket they just found it cheaper and easier to deem pre 2008 cars non compatible.  

Honestly the only change i can really claim is a lack of power. If i reset the ECU and fill with E5 the car seems perky, do it with E10 and it's a little more flat. But that could just be in my head but that's how it feels to me. Ow and the MPG DOES reduce on E10... 20/24mpg on the 6mile (There and back twice a day) school run vs 26/28mpg with E5 over 2 weeks.

I fill with 98 anyways. So the switch to E10 doesn't affect me yet. I'm just worried that they will either keep raising the price of E5 or just make everything E10. But the car does run much better on 98 or 100, which is why I stopped putting 95 in and switched to 98 after a few months I had the car.