Hydrogen fuel rollout.

[dutchie01]

51 minutes ago, Barry14UK said:

It should have been a class leader coming so late to the market but isn't.  Didn't get off to a good start with the wheels coming off and production delays.

I dont think it had anything to do with wheels coming off. Never ever heard that before from whatever manufacturer. Seems to me they got caught between a deadline and batterytech not ready yet. Anyway major marketing clusterf****. 

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

I dont think it had anything to do with wheels coming off

I didn't help! Quite a major safety issue that took over 3 months to solve with a complete stop in sales - hardly confidence inspiring.

[ganzoom]

Isn't this thread about hydrogen fuel station roll out??

It appears the number of UK hydrogen fuel station is going DOWN, not up?? Can any of our hydrogen fuel cell car owners confirm this or is this just 'fake news'?? According to some there are now just FIVE hydrogen fuel stations in the UK, where as I thought the forum members on here suggest there was 1000+???

https://innovationorigins.com/en/first-shell-now-motive-hydrogen-fuel-station-closures-continue-in-the-uk/

https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/transport/exclusive-shell-has-quietly-closed-down-all-its-hydrogen-filling-stations-in-the-uk/2-1-1335049

Meanwhile earlier this year a 42 charge point hub opened at Oxford, and construction has now started on a hub at Exeter services that can charge 57 EVs at once. 

I'm really struggling to tell the difference between fact and fiction these days, because the commentary by our hydrogen experts on here seem to suggest EVs are dead and hydrogen is the answer, but IRL information doesn't seem to support the commentary?

Any one know the real FACTs here?

 

[Guest]

I’m not for or against BEV’s, will be sad when petrol is no more but I hope to keep my ES for a fair few years. I would love to see hydrogen in the mix but as far as passenger vehicles I cannot see it. The main manufacturers are rushing down the BEV route and the infrastructure is following that route. To have a hydrogen infrastructure would require a demand or at least a future demand and it isn’t there from the car manufacturers, why would they when they have invested billions in the electric route. 

[Mr Vlad]

Yes Gang hydrogen fuel stations have closed down. I can't remember which company they belonged to but yes they closed them down. But from what I read they were closed for modernisation.

And yes these huge Battery charging stations being built to charge 50 ish vehicles. Needs more than just a 13amp fuse eh? lol. These super stations Need HUGE amounts of electricity. Unfortunately the grid just isn't up to the task. Thing is tho that these companies that have built these super stations aren't stupid. Oh no. Roofs being plastered in solar panels. And huge storage batteries on site that come into use when there's a surge in use. Now because of the HUGE investment I can't see using one of these super stations to be reasonably priced to use. But time will tell. Oh and isn't it funny how these super stations are all 'darn sarf'? 

[Malc1]

13 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Oh no. Roofs being plastered in solar panels

was i reading yesterday somewhere that these are beginning to now fail coz they cannot cope with the heat !  😅

Malc

[Shahpor]

48 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

was i reading yesterday somewhere that these are beginning to now fail coz they cannot cope with the heat !  😅

Malc

Not true:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-65907342

 

[dutchie01]

1 hour ago, Mr Vlad said:

Yes Gang hydrogen fuel stations have closed down. I can't remember which company they belonged to but yes they closed them down. But from what I read they were closed for modernisation.

And yes these huge battery charging stations being built to charge 50 ish vehicles. Needs more than just a 13amp fuse eh? lol. These super stations Need HUGE amounts of electricity. Unfortunately the grid just isn't up to the task. Thing is tho that these companies that have built these super stations aren't stupid. Oh no. Roofs being plastered in solar panels. And huge storage batteries on site that come into use when there's a surge in use. Now because of the HUGE investment I can't see using one of these super stations to be reasonably priced to use. But time will tell. Oh and isn't it funny how these super stations are all 'darn sarf'? 

Pricing differentiates the faster you charge the more expensive it gets. I guess it will cost around thesame as filling up with petrol if you use a 350kw charger. Funny is that The German government has reduced the number of public chargers needed by 2030 as most people will charge at home or at the office. For that reason Total sold all petrolstations in the netherlands they are pulling out. 

[Malc1]

3 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

Total sold all petrolstations in the netherlands they are pulling out. 

Did Total do the same here in the UK too ?

Malc

[ganzoom]

3 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

Yes Gang hydrogen fuel stations have closed down. I can't remember which company they belonged to but yes they closed them down. But from what I read they were closed for modernisation.

When do we think we'll hit say 10 hydrogen fuel stations in the UK if the current number is 5......end of 2023? It really cannot be that hard to install 5 stations in 6 months? 

[Malc1]

53 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

When do we think we'll hit say 10 hydrogen fuel stations in the UK if the current number is 5......end of 2023? It really cannot be that hard to install 5 stations in 6 months? 

Wow Gang,  you’re our resident expert then in the challenges of installing Hydrogen fuel stations 😂👍

Gawd ‘elp us all 🥵

Malc 

[Las Palmas]

Affluently living is great.

The rich continue to have fun.

Temperature rising, and, so what?

Cars only for us rich, so what?

Our great grandchildren will have a hotter life, so what?

Ice will melt and seas will rice and land will be lost, so what?

We can move to higher grounds! Not all can, so what? - We, had fun!

The poor can walk till the shoes are worn out and from then they get their feet hardened. So what?

We have cars and money and a pleasant life!

That way of thinking LED in France to invention of a machine called the guillotine. So what?

[dutchie01]

3 hours ago, Malc1 said:

Did Total do the same here in the UK too ?

Malc

Dont know, but they sold all stations here to another company and are pulling out. They had a lot of  negative press last year and Dutch investors were pressed to sell all shares worth 2.1 billion in total by all sorts of protest groups and environmental organisations. This because of the role the company plays in the East African Crude Oil Pipeline in Uganda which is causing human right violations and serious environmental pollution to such an extend that even the European Parliament got envolved. Extracting oil from the earth is dirty business, now who would have thought that?

[dutchie01]

7 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Affluently living is great.

The rich continue to have fun.

Temperature rising, and, so what?

Cars only for us rich, so what?

Our great grandchildren will have a hotter life, so what?

Ice will melt and seas will rice and land will be lost, so what?

We can move to higher grounds! Not all can, so what? - We, had fun!

The poor can walk till the shoes are worn out and from then they get their feet hardened. So what?

We have cars and money and a pleasant life!

That way of thinking led in France to invention of a machine called the guillotine. So what?

When will you sell your car John?

[dutchie01]

1 hour ago, ganzoom said:

When do we think we'll hit say 10 hydrogen fuel stations in the UK if the current number is 5......end of 2023? It really cannot be that hard to install 5 stations in 6 months? 

Gang, let me tell you a secret; there is no roll out of hydro stations and there will not be one in the next 5 years. Hopefully the technology will have improved by then so it can be used more frequently for HGV but so far it will be industry use only.

[Malc1]

29 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

Gang, let me tell you a secret; there is no roll out of hydro stations and there will not be one in the next 5 years. Hopefully the technology will have improved by then so it can be used more frequently for HGV but so far it will be industry use only.

Ba humbug !😄! ……. Wot about the uk police fleets of the Mirai cars ……. They’re now already refuelling from somewhere surely 🤔

Malc 

[dutchie01]

Malc old chap i politely and humbly have to inform you that the current fleet of Hydro cars in the Uk consists of 11 vehicles out of over 30,000 other ones. 

[ganzoom]

5 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

That way of thinking led in France to invention of a machine called the guillotine. So what?

Its not the guillotine that's changing the world its the mobile phone. Everyone can now see how 'privileged' we are living in Europe. Burning through resources with no care in the world. The majority of the people on this planet would do anything to have what all of us have, the migration 'issue' in Europe is the realisation on a global scale how so few are living a life off the back of the many, and why that has to change.

But lucky for us Europe, US, China, Russia etc have enough military deterrents to keep the status quo.....for now. 

If global equity and climate change is your main aims in life, than I'm really not sure what your are doing on a car forum, and even less relevant is any thoughts about hydrogen.

The difference between the poorest and richest countries in the world grows larger every day, it will bubble over one day, as 7 billon people realise the only difference between those who have and haven't just happens to be where you are born, and how unfair that is.

We get to 'debate' about hydrogen whilst billions dont even have access to fresh water, is that right? Shouldn't that be a call for a global revolution??...However again, am not sure how hydrogen fuel cell cars have any impact of the real issues facing humanity?

[Las Palmas]

Industry use H2, aviation is well on its way and even a very old project from around 1970 has started:

The first platform-based wind-to-H2 deep water renewable hydrogen electrolysis plants have made their way offshore in recent weeks, making it possible to prove concepts first developed half a century ago.

Hydrogen is not happening.

But do not tell that to owners of RR.

 

 

The company’s CEO has stated that the automaker is thinking that it “might exit batteries.”

The automaker has been focused on developing Battery electric vehicles as its zero-emission offering.

The latest Rolls-Royce Spectre made its way into the spotlight earlier this month at Villa d’Este in Italy for its European debut. That model is the first electric vehicle from the UK-based automaker and is expected to begin production in September. It will boast one of the largest batteries any production car has ever held, at 120kWh.The vehicle’s range is said to be over 300 miles, with rapid charging at 195kW.

That said, Torsten Müller-Ötvös, Rolls-Royce CEO, has said that the unique positioning of the company and the average owner’s specialized use case means that it is possible to consider hydrogen cars as a technology with true potential for the future.

 

H2 cars have an advantage.

Müller-Ötvös sees hydrogen cars using fuel cells as an option quite comparable to Battery electric vehicles, only with distinct advantages once it is further developed.

“And why not? I would say so when the time is right for us, and when the technology is so much advanced, that it is definitely something we would pursue as Rolls-Royce,” he said. “Why not? We might exit batteries, and we might enter into fuel cells.”

[flotsam]

While Jamie Lee Curtis raves about her Honda Clarity HFC, Rowan Atkinson says he feels duped for buying a Battery car.

[Malc1]

On 6/18/2023 at 6:05 PM, dutchie01 said:

current fleet of Hydro cars in the Uk consists of 11 vehicles

from little acorns eh !

Malc

as an aside was reading this morning that EV owners could be facing a Govt, effective " pothole " tax coz of the excessive damage done thru' the inordinate Battery weight issues ........ 🤣

[Las Palmas]

8 hours ago, Malc1 said:

from little acorns eh !

Malc

as an aside was reading this morning that EV owners could be facing a Govt, effective " pothole " tax coz of the excessive damage done thru' the inordinate battery weight issues ........ 🤣

Come 2035 and the owners of Battery powered cars will be minority and sorry that they listened to the stupid politicians that made them believe it was the way to go.

 

Storage of excess electricity are going to be in hydrogen as batteries are useless due to too many reasons to list (self-discharge etc.).

Electriq, a company based in Israel, has just been recognized with the prestigious World Economic Forum “Technology Pioneers” award for its advancements in hydrogen storage technology, Electriq Powder.

 

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, Las Palmas said:

battery powered cars will be minority and sorry that they listened to the stupid politicians that made them believe it was the way to go.

Why would they be sorry? You select the most suitable option at the time of purchase. Anyone going electric now will get the benefits for 10 years before hydrogen becomes a legitimate alternative for the private motorist, and the infrastructure will be in place for another 10+ years beyond that, the same way petrol/diesel cars will still be around for years. 

[First_Lexus]

5 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Why would they be sorry? You select the most suitable option at the time of purchase. Anyone going electric now will get the benefits for 10 years before hydrogen becomes a legitimate alternative for the private motorist, and the infrastructure will be in place for another 10+ years beyond that, the same way petrol/diesel cars will still be around for years. 

Totally agree. The infrastructure is getting there now - and improving - for EVs. The infrastructure for petrol and diesel remains. There is no infrastructure for hydrogen yet, and will likely take a few years assuming it arrives at all.

As I have done, people will make a choice. I’m sticking with petrol/hybrid as EV doesn’t work for me at the moment. Others will move to EVs. If hydrogen arrives, there will be early adopters as there were for electric a few years ago and the combustion engine itself at the beginning of the twentieth century.

Sorry to be a misery, but I’m not sure what the purpose is for threads like these now. I don’t see people changing opinions, I simply see entrenched views on all sides. They’ve become nothing but echo chambers.

 

[Las Palmas]

6 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Why would they be sorry? You select the most suitable option at the time of purchase. Anyone going electric now will get the benefits for 10 years before hydrogen becomes a legitimate alternative for the private motorist, and the infrastructure will be in place for another 10+ years beyond that, the same way petrol/diesel cars will still be around for years. 

As soon as the batteries are no longer up to what was promised (7 - 12 years) batteries, mostly made in China like many other things, will have a different price than hoped for. The rest of the car would likely still be in good condition. Correct that owners have been preferred and lured to buy EV cars, but doubt that governments will continue to favour EV car owners; they are going to need funds from something, if / when EV cars will become more than 20% of the car fleet driving. The grid will have problems charging if / when more than half will be Battery powered; which might never happen. Only those with own solar chargers will stay happy, as electricity will do what all things do = when more is wanted - price will go up.

Those that bought EV cars because they wanted to help the planet have been fooled as the cars need to be driven a lot of km/miles in order to reach neutrality and as long as electricity is still made from very much fossil fuel (coal, lignite, natural gas) it will never happen. In Germany more than 50% is rather dirty. UK not much better.