Hydrogen fuel rollout.

[ganzoom]

14 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

What a bunch on nonsense.

Where will they get the power grid that can deliver the power to supercharge and so far, electricity is still made from cheapest power source meaning that somewhere coal is being burnt to make electricity and most places oil.

And where does pure, compressed hydrogen come from or even how you transport it.

How far do you think your get at air security if you told them you were carrying 0.5kg liquid hydrogen compressed to 700bar in the suite case???

Hydrogen is an amazing fuel source, its literally the building blocks of the Universe. But to try and use for going to Asda.....why would you bother when there so many easier ways.

[Las Palmas]

How safe are hydrogen fuel cell cars in a crash?

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/how-safe-are-hydrogen-fuel-cell-vehicles-in-a-crash/8539783/?awt_a=1jpsU&awt_l=IFzTR&awt_m=iPDmtagSRu5DlsU

https://youtube.com/embed/GpRyn5-ZbPU?feature=oembed

https://youtube.com/embed/O2pZeDhERyQ?feature=oembed

No fuel that can burn is safe so accidents cannot happen. In open air situations (outside) hydrogen will evaporate rather fast and pose little danger, whereas gasoline will pour out on the ground and easily catch fire. In a closed garage, both hydrogen and gasoline will be unsafe if container leaking.

 

There isn’t enough time for cleaner energy sources to keep up with EV demand.

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/alternative-energy-hfn-poll/8558811/?awt_a=1jpsU&awt_l=IFzTR&awt_m=iPDmtagSRu5DlsU

Very few believe that the current way of producing electricity can handle the demand for powering enough batteries to make transportation non-polluting.

 

Frankfurt to boost presence of hydrogen buses in its city. The German metropolis has ordered more H2 buses from Solaris.

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/hydrogen-buses-icb-solaris/8558799/?awt_a=1jpsU&awt_l=IFzTR&awt_m=i9R2EyQHBu5DlsU

They bought some busses last year and may have been happy with them since they have now ordered more.

 

Now I have said enough about hydrogen, should some want more they will have to look for news themselves.

[Las Palmas]

On 5/23/2023 at 7:03 AM, dutchie01 said:

That was in 2021 with the chevy bolt. There were issues with the battery and they recalled 140k cars and even stopped production.

Very well not commenting on the fact that there are very very very many more ICE cars than EV's.

[Malc1]

so I might still get my hydrogen Toyota Crown sedan to rebadge to my Ls700   .....  when I can eventually pension off my Ls400   🤣

Malc

[dutchie01]

 

On 5/24/2023 at 11:14 PM, Las Palmas said:

Very well not commenting on the fact that there are very very very many more ICE cars than EV's.

 a quick google will give you enough info John

[Las Palmas]

42 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

 

 a quick google will give you enough info John

Did you do that before answering Samantha?

[Las Palmas]

Mining in amazon is on the increase. The amazon has before been called the lungs of our planet, what it will be called is maybe something else: Lithium mining areas?

 

Let us get rid of all the ingenious people living there so we can get the minerals we need to continue living in our cities.

 

A satellite view of the Carajás iron mine in Pará state near the city of Marabá. It is run by Brazil’s Vale mining company. Mining, if not properly managed, can do significant environmental and social harm, polluting rivers and groundwater, deforesting large areas, and displacing indigenous and traditional communities. Image courtesy of NASA

When we need electricity to produce iron ore and whatever is found we just make it. Who care what happen to the people that used to live there?

[dutchie01]

3 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

Did you do that before answering Samantha?

Yes of course! i dont pretend to know everything about all. I am however curious in lots of topics and want to know more about them so Dr Google to the rescue! 

[dutchie01]

3 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

Mining in Amazon is on the increase. The Amazon has before been called the lungs of our planet, what it will be called is maybe something else: Lithium mining areas?

 

Let us get rid of all the ingenious people living there so we can get the minerals we need to continue living in our cities.

 

A satellite view of the Carajás iron mine in Pará state near the city of Marabá. It is run by Brazil’s Vale mining company. Mining, if not properly managed, can do significant environmental and social harm, polluting rivers and groundwater, deforesting large areas, and displacing indigenous and traditional communities. Image courtesy of NASA

When we need electricity to produce iron ore and whatever is found we just make it. Who care what happen to the people that used to live there?

 

What about other products we take out of the earth, like wood especially the entire forest there seems to disappear and in lots of cases ends up in power stations in Europa as classified as green energy. What about old fashioned Oil ( and the spillings ), what about Gas, what about Palm Oil, the list is endless and as always the poor sods living there have no rights at all.

[Las Palmas]

10 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

What about other products we take out of the earth, like wood especially the entire forest there seems to disappear and in lots of cases ends up in power stations in Europa as classified as green energy. What about old fashioned Oil ( and the spillings ), what about Gas, what about Palm Oil, the list is endless and as always the poor sods living there have no rights at all.

And the plastic we dispose of in the ocean etc.

This topic is about fuel for cars and searching for minerals to stupid short living batteries that are destroying the planet, more than about all the other things that we wealthy western people think are needed in order to live better than our neighbour.

[Las Palmas]

16 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

Yes of course! i dont pretend to know everything about all. I am however curious in lots of topics and want to know more about them so Dr Google to the rescue! 

If you did that why did you then not tell her that she was right and you were wrong?

[dutchie01]

5 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

If you did that why did you then not tell her that she was right and you were wrong?

why do you think i was wrong and she was right?

[Las Palmas]

43 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

why do you think i was wrong and she was right?

you were compating apples with oranges and she told you. Your did not acknowledge. 1 - 0 to Samantha

[dutchie01]

Well John, especially for you then.

https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/are-electric-car-fires-really-that-common/

https://belux.edmo.eu/fact-check-do-electric-cars-catch-fire-more-often-than-combustion-engine-cars/

 

[Malc1]

gentlemen, absolutely all the sodding data about every Tesla owners car ( and probably every Tesla owner too )  is now freely available to whomsoever needs it or wants to peruse it, it would seem ......  " Tesla breaking news 100 gigabytes of confidential data leaked by whistleblower "

is that a lot do you know ?  Musk will doubtless blame everyone else and sod the Tesla owners needs................. he's making plenty of spondoolies ££$$££$$

All that " free" charging clearly has a price  🤣

Oh for the simplicity of my petrol, but  non-guzzling, totally free of Data V8 4ltr  limo

Malc

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

Well John, especially for you then.

https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/are-electric-car-fires-really-that-common/

https://belux.edmo.eu/fact-check-do-electric-cars-catch-fire-more-often-than-combustion-engine-cars/

 

The statistic shows cars being sold (in what time span?). Not cars on the roads. Some places all the rich have new cars regularly and some places people not that affluent keep their old and try to get it to run as long as possible.

[Las Palmas]

Not only will we remove our forest to find Lithium and other minerals for not polluting in order to save the planet, but will destroy life in the oceans not only with dumping poison and plastic in them but also dig up all we can find of valuable minerals:

 

 

https://news.mongabay.com/2022/09/regulator-approves-first-deep-sea-mining-test-surprising-observers/ 

Regulator approves first deep-sea mining test, surprising observers

by Elizabeth Claire Alberts on 16 September 2022   

https://news.mongabay.com/by/elizabeth-claire-alberts/

• The International Seabed Authority (ISA), the intergovernmental body responsible for overseeing deep-sea mining operations and for protecting the ocean, recently granted approval for a mining trial to commence in the Clarion-Clipperton Zone (CCZ) in the Pacific Ocean.
• The company undertaking this trial is Nauru Ocean Resources Inc (NORI), a subsidiary of Canadian-owned The Metals Company (TMC), which is aiming to start annually extracting 1.3 million metric tons of polymetallic nodules from the CCZ as early as 2024.
• The approval for this mining test, the first of its kind since the 1970s, was first announced by TMC earlier this week.
• Mining opponents said the ruling took them by surprise and they feared it would pave the way for exploitation to begin in the near future, despite growing concerns about the safety and necessity of deep-sea mining.

On Sept. 14, the Hidden Gem — an industrial drill ship operated by a subsidiary of The Metals Company (TMC), a Canadian deep-sea mining corporation — left its port in Manzanillo, Mexico. From there, it headed toward the Clarion-Clipperton Zone (CCZ), a vast abyssal plain in international waters of the Pacific Ocean that stretches over 4.5 million square kilometers (1.7 million square miles) across the deep sea, roughly equivalent in size to half of Canada.

The goal of TMC’s expedition is to test its mining equipment that will vacuum up polymetallic nodules, potato-shaped rocks formed over millions of years. The nodules contain commercially coveted minerals like cobalt, nickel, copper and manganese. TMC, a publicly traded company listed on the Nasdaq exchange, announced that it aims to collect 3,600 metric tons of these nodules during this test period.

This operation came as a surprise to opponents of deep-sea mining, mainly because of the stealth with which they said the International Seabed Authority (ISA) — the UN-affiliated intergovernmental body dually responsible for overseeing mining in international waters and for protecting the deep sea — authorized TMC to commence the trial.

It is the first such trial the ISA has authorized after years of debate over whether it should permit deep-sea mining to commence in international waters, and if so, under what conditions. News of the authorization did not come initially from the ISA, but from TMC itself in a press release dated September 7. The ISA eventually posted its own statement on Sept. 15, more than a week after TMC’s announcement. It is not clear when the ISA granted the authorization.

“We’ve been caught off guard by this,” Arlo Hemphill, a senior oceans campaigner at Greenpeace, an organization campaigning to prevent deep-sea mining operations, told Mongabay in an interview. “There’s been little time for us to react.”

  at 4,100 meters in the Clarion-Clipperton Fracture Zone. Image courtesy of Craig Smith and Diva Amon, ABYSSLINE Project.

Mounting concerns, sudden actions

Several weeks ago, in July and August, delegates to the ISA met in Kingston, Jamaica, to discuss how, when and if deep-sea mining could begin. In July 2021, discussions acquired a sense of urgency when the Pacific island state of Nauru triggered an arcane rule embedded in the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) that could obligate the ISA to kick-start exploitation in about two years with whatever rules are in place at the time. Nauru is the sponsor of Nauru Ocean Resources Inc (NORI), a subsidiary of TMC that is undertaking the tests. TMC told Mongabay that it expects to apply for its exploitation license in 2023, and if approved by the ISA, to begin mining towards the end of 2024.

The ISA subsequently scheduled a series of meetings to accelerate the development of mining regulations, but has yet to adopt a final set of rules.

The delay is due, in part, to the increasing number of states and observers from civil society raising concerns about the safety and necessity of deep-sea mining. Some member states, including Palau, Fiji and Samoa, have even called for a moratorium on deep-sea mining until more is understood about the marine environment that companies want to exploit. Other concerns hinge upon an environmental impact statement (EIS) that NORI had to submit in order for mining to begin.

NORI submitted an initial draft of its EIS in July 2021, as per ISA requirements, and an updated version in March 2022.

Matt Gianni, a political and policy adviser for the Deep Sea Conservation Coalition (DSCC), a group of environmental NGOs calling for NORI’s testing approval to be rescinded, said that the ISA’s Legal and Technical Commission (LTC) — the organ responsible for issuing mining licenses — previously cited “serious concerns” about NORI’s EIS, including the fact that it lacked baseline environmental data. The LTC had also raised concerns about the comprehensiveness of the group’s Environmental Management and Monitoring Plan (EMMP), he said.

But then, “all of a sudden,” the LTC granted approval for the mining test without first consulting ISA council members, said Gianni, who acts as an observer at ISA meetings.

The fact that TMC announced the decision before the ISA did “reinforces the impression that it’s the contractor and the LTC and the [ISA] secretariat that are driving the agenda, and states are following along,” Gianni said.

Harald Brekke, chair of the LTC, sent Mongabay a statement similarly worded to the recent announcement made by the ISA. He said that the LTC had reviewed NORI’s EIS and EMMP for “completeness, accuracy and statistical reliability,” and that an internal working group had worked closely with NORI to address concerns. In response, the mining group adequately dealt with the issues, which allowed the LTC to approve the proposed testing activities, he said.

“This is a normal contract procedure between the [ISA] Secretary-General and the Contractor, on the advice and recommendations by the [Legal and Technical] Commission,” Brekke said in the emailed statement. “It is not a decision to be made by the [ISA] Council. According to the normal procedure of ISA, the details of this process will be [communicated] by the Chair of the Commission to the Council at its session in November.”

“I also would like to point out that this procedure has followed the regulations and guidelines of ISA,” Brekke added, “which are implemented to take care of the possible environmental impacts of this kind of exploration activity.”

Yet Gianni said he did not believe the LTC had satisfactorily reviewed the EIS for its full potential of environmental impact, nor had it considered the “serious harmful effects on vulnerable marine ecosystems” as required under the ISA’s own exploration regulations for polymetallic nodules.

Image © Greenpeace.

Questions about transparency

Sandor Mulsow, who worked as the director of environment and minerals at the ISA between 2013 and 2019, said that the ISA “is not fit to carry out an analysis of environmental impact assessment” and that the grounds on which the ISA authorized NORI to begin testing were questionable.

“Unfortunately, the [International] Seabed Authority is pro-mining,” Mulsow, who now works as a professor at Universidad Austral de Chile, said in an interview with Mongabay. “They’re not complying with the role of protecting the common heritage of humankind.”

A recent investigation by the New York Times revealed that the ISA gave TMC critical information over a 15-year period that allowed the company to access some of the most valuable seabed areas marked for mining, giving it an unfair advantage over other contractors.

The ISA has also frequently been criticized for its lack of transparency, including the fact that the LTC meets behind closed doors and provides few details about why it approves mining proposals. The ISA has previously granted dozens of exploratory mining licenses to contractors, although none have yet received an exploitation license. While NORI is not technically undertaking exploratory mining in this instance, their testing of mining equipment falls under exploration regulations.

Mongabay reported that transparency issues were even prominent during the ISA meetings that took place in July and August this year, including restrictions on participation and limited access to key information for civil society members.

The ISA did not respond to questions posed by Mongabay, instead deferring to the statement from Brekke, the LTC chair.

seen at 5,100 meters depth on abyssal sediments in the western Clarion-Clipperton Zone. Image by DeepCCZ expedition/NOAA via Flickr (CC BY-SA 2.0).

‘Full-blown mining in test form’

During the mining trial set to take place in the CCZ — which could begin as early as next week — NORI will be testing out its nodule collector vehicles and riser systems that will draw the nodules about 3,000 meters (9,840 feet) from the seabed to the surface. If NORI does begin exploitation in 2024, Gianni said the risers will be pumping about 10,000 metric tons of nodules up to a ship per day.

“That’s a hell of a lot,” Gianni said. “This is heavy duty machinery. This is piping that has to withstand considerable pressure.”

NORI intends to extract 1.3 million metric tons of wet nodules each year in the exploitation stage of its operation, TMC reported.

The Metals Company argues that this mining will provide minerals necessary to power a global shift toward clean energy. Indeed, demand for such minerals is growing as nations urge consumers to take up electric vehicles in an effort to combat climate change.

Mining opponents, however, have argued that renewable technologies like electric cars don’t actually need the minerals procured from mining.

Moreover, a growing cadre of scientists have been warning against the dangers of deep-sea mining, arguing that we don’t know enough about deep-sea environments to destroy them. What we do know about the deep-sea suggests that mining could have far-reaching consequences, such as disturbing phytoplankton blooms at the sea’s surface, introducing toxic metals into marine food webs, and dispersing mining waste over long distances across the ocean — far enough to affect distant fisheries and delicate ecosystems like coral reefs and seamounts.

“Every time somebody goes and collects some sample in that area of the Clarion-Clipperton Zone, there’s a new species coming up,” Mulsow said. “We don’t know how to name them, and we want to destroy them.”

TMC has stated that the testing activities will be monitored by “independent scientists from a dozen leading research institutions around the world.”

However, Hemphill of Greenpeace, who also has ISA observer status, questions whether the monitoring process will be unbiased.

“We’re thinking there’s a high chance that these risers might not work,” he said. “But if there’s not a third party observer out there, then we just have to rely on The Metals Company’s own recording.”

“It’s going to be basically a full-blown mining operation in test form, where they’re not only using the [collector] equipment, but they’re using the risers to bring the nodules to the surface,” Hemphill added.

Nodule collection trials like the one NORI is undertaking haven’t been conducted in the CCZ since the 1970s, TMC noted in its press release.

When Mongabay reached out to TMC for further information about its operation, a spokesperson for the company said that they “believe that polymetallic nodules are a compelling solution to the critical mineral supply challenges facing society in our transition away from fossil fuels.”

“While concern is justified as to the potential impacts of any source of metals — whether from land or sea — significant attention has been paid to mitigate these, including by setting aside more area for protection than is under license in the Clarion-Clipperton Zone of the Pacific Ocean,” the TMC spokesperson said.

A map of the Clarion Clipperton Zone in the central Pacific Ocean. Colored areas are those licensed for mining and shaded squares are areas currently protected from mining. Image adapted from the International Seabed Authority, 2018, courtesy of NOAA.

‘No way back’

Mulsow said he was sure that this trial would pave the way for exploitation to start next year, not only giving TMC’s NORI access to the deep-sea’s resources, but opening the gates for other contractors to begin similar operations.

“[In June] 2023, we will have … the application for the first mining license for the deep sea,” he said, “and then there will be no way back.”

Hemphill said he also feared the move would set a process into motion for mining to start next year — but added that Greenpeace would continue its fight to stop mining.

“We’re not giving up just because the two-year rule comes to pass,” he said. “And then if things get started, we’re in this for the long haul.”

Gianni said he was hopeful that the dynamic could also change at the next ISA meeting scheduled for November, in which delegates will get the chance to discuss whether they’re obligated to approve the start of mining the following year.

“The fact that the LTC has done this … may finally get council members to start saying, ‘Wait a minute, we need to bring this renegade fiefdom [at] the heart of the ISA structure under control,” Gianni said, “because they’re going off and deciding things in spite of all the reservations that are being expressed by the countries that are members of the ISA.”

Correction 16/09/2022: This article has been updated to reflect the fact that TMC does not intend to start deep-sea mining in 2023, but expects to apply for an exploitation license at that time. If approved, the company says it will begin mining operations in late 2024.

 

[Mr Vlad]

Bernard. The first 'thing' you posted about BEV fires. That was dated 2020 December. What bugs the living daylights out of me is the copy n paste brigade. I read that article about 21/2 years ago and again just over a year ago. Not your fault however. 

This thread is going doolally with all sorts of nonsense. Some do it to wind others up. Some do it coz they're bored merdless etc etc.

At the end of the day technology is changing almost every few days with new forms of Battery cell structure and hydrogen manufacturing processes becoming cheaper and cheaper. Shame alternatives like synthetic fuel isn't being mentioned as much.

[Las Palmas]

OK.

We need a lot of batteries in order to save the planet from pollution so we can all drive in electric Battery powered cars.

According to quite a lot of people.

Some of the batteries may last longer than the short-lived lithium batteries, but they all need a lot of minerals in order to function and to get these materials for the trillions of big batteries needed we need to slaughter the forests (we cannot dig well among all the roots they have and even if we did the trees would die anyway) plus we can use the wood to burn like we burn coal to get electricity. More than a third of the electricity we put in cars in Germany come from: Lignite. Recently some in this forum laughed and mocked the little Swedish girl that was protesting in Germany because they were going to remove a village in order to dig: Lignite. We need electricity to charge our Battery powered cars. Lignite is of course not polluting when it is burnt to make electricity; when heating homes and grills a little, yes; but when making the needed electricity of course not.

We also need to disturb and remove all the annoying life in the oceans. These creatures are in the way when we are going to dig for more minerals and that cannot be tolerated. Who needs fish anyway? While we are at digging there, we can just bury all the plastic and other garbage we can find in the hole where the minerals used to be, so everything will be just like it was.

2 suns in the sunset, could be the human race is run.

[Las Palmas]

Should of course have been : No sun in the sunset, but I like the original music a lot.

 

[flotsam]

Le Mans will accept hydrogen cars by 2026 apparently. So they seem to believe that's where we're headed. Anyone daft enough to buy a Tesla will be seething, especially when the Battery won't accept charge any more, which is likely to be very soon.

[serbarry]

On 5/14/2023 at 10:00 AM, Malc1 said:

hydrogen is on its way and the Ford and Toyota cars  will follow as night follows day …. and my Hydrogen powered Ls700 might follow on too 

the choice might be, do I plump for a left-hooker Ford sedan OR a Toyota rebadged to Lexus sedan Ls700  ? 🤔
 

what might be my and your preference ? 😂

Malc 

 

 

 

Malc I think your new car is on the way

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/future-tech/toyota-and-yamaha-are-developing-hydrogen-fuelled-v8

[Las Palmas]

3 hours ago, serbarry said:

Malc I think your new car is on the way

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/future-tech/toyota-and-yamaha-are-developing-hydrogen-fuelled-v8

This is very old news. Oh, then it is not new?

More than 2 years since I saw it first time.

Ready to run, but: Stupid people think that destroying forests and oceans to dig after minerals to build batteries that last very short time is the way to go and unfortunately there are more stupid people than intelligent people on earth, so the planet will be completely destroyed long before it is found out that batteries for bigger things than smartphones and computers are so out of tune that it will matter.

[Malc1]

2024 I'm thinking to go visit the Japanese blossom areas and might take in a trip to Toyota to look at the new Hydrogen big sedan and chat with them about the issues around importing one to the UK 

Just occurred to me that a buddy went there last year on such a glorious blossom trip  😃

Malc

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, Malc1 said:

2024 I'm thinking to go visit the Japanese blossom areas and might take in a trip to Toyota to look at the new Hydrogen big sedan and chat with them about the issues around importing one to the UK 

Just occurred to me that a buddy went there last year on such a glorious blossom trip  😃

Malc

The blossoms look nice in pictures, so probably worth seeing. I love walking around in orange and lemon plantages, the smell of the flowers are so much that it maybe makes up for the lack of beauty compared to the ones you can see in Japan.

Issues around importing will probably come from UK and not Japan.