Hydrogen fuel rollout.

[dutchie01]

On 5/19/2023 at 10:04 PM, Las Palmas said:

Tesla agent vs.Toyota agent.

Funny beard though. ZZ TOP fan?

 

I trust Toyota is looking in the right direction. Water can be reused when it has been hydrogen. Look at batteries and see the same?

I differ. Toyota could be entering the worst crisis of its existence. Just as example look at the biggest carmarket in the world, China. The rapid shift to electric vehicles has created a plunge in demand for ICE cars. As Toyota has no models on offer, except the uncompetitive BZX, they are left exposed big time with a decrease in sales. 30% of the Chinese market is now BEV which means Toyota has no access to 30% of the largest market. This will only get worse for them as the Chinese manufacturers now lead the market together with Tesla.

I think Toyota has been betting on Hydro for way too long. Ever heard of the Ford Nucleon? Power came from a small reactor, they thought it was a good idea back then.. 

[Mr Vlad]

It's getting rather tiresome that some threads go out of keelter (however that's spelt).

Battery cell technology is at a very good pace where substitutes for nickel and cadmium and other precious metals are being tested and some good results are coming through. 

Hydrogen rollout is a definite in a few countries but not here as much unfortunately. Hydrogen for logistics is a Must as Battery just isn't good enough by a long chalk. I saw very recently that 2 of the few Hydrogen filling stations in London were being decommissioned. 2 reasons came up. 1 lack of use and 2 for uprating. Time will tell.

Synthetic fuel for ice cars is on a slow road and not been heard of recently. 

There's someone contributing to this thread who reminds me of another none lexus forum member who became obnoxious with his self centred idiosyncratic posts. Is this thread heading towards censorship closure?

[Las Palmas]

Some find it not good to be told that batteries have limited life span. Maybe I am wrong and batteries really do last forever or until the rest of the car is worn out.

Here on the island some well-maintained cars are driving around more than 40 years old. The modern way of living: buy now - and throw away when no longer modern - is not something I like, but that mean I will be called old fashioned. I have clothes that are more than 30 years old because bought of good quality, some even start to look modern again. A pair of rather expensive business Lloyd shoes bought in Zürich in 1980 something, maybe called "Scribe" are still like new, not because of not being used, but because of treated like intended from the company that made them. Do not look comfortable or smart, rather clumsy but are extremely comfortable. Will outlast me. Wool may not be smart or modern, but it is growing naturally and if treated correct will last very, very long time. The CT is now getting close to 7 years old and still close to - like new. Will probably last till hydrogen cars are common. Buy things of quality and maintain well instead of buying things that are to be thrown away in a reasonably short time (when no longer modern). In the long run it may even be cheaper.

What a boring life. No new clothes because the old are no longer modern but still OK! No new car because the old is still functioning OK!

 

Something I not expected: Israel started to roll out hydrogen filling stations.

 

 

Are hydrogen cars the solution to the EV lithium problem?

 By JAKE MARTIN                https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/author/jakemartin2233/

Electric vehicles are popular, but some of the materials needed for batteries are environmentally disastrous.

In the transition toward zero-emission transportation, electric vehicles (EVs) have become highly popular, but it could be hydrogen cars that present a solution many drivers aren’t aware of.

Walking cities would be the ideal, but few are willing or able to give up the convenience.

Americans love their sedans, SUVs and pickup trucks. As most cities across the country are sprawling, these vehicles provide a direct way to get people where they want to be. This is particularly true in urban areas where public transportation is old and overcrowded.

 

Therefore, while well designed walking cities would be pleasant, realistically, millions of people across the US won’t have any intention of giving up their vehicles soon. Unfortunately, even with zero-emission Battery electric vehicles, there is an environmental impact that can’t be ignored. These batteries are large and require lithium, an expensive rare metal that is environmentally and socially disastrous to mine.

The more EVs are made, the more lithium is required. As a result, many companies, industries and drivers are looking to the potential of hydrogen cars. While they, too, require batteries, they are notably smaller, requiring only a fraction of the lithium.

The IRA could make it much more convenient to own and operate hydrogen cars in the United States.

It is not to say that H2-powered vehicles should replace all fossil fuel vehicles and EVs. Instead, what many are seeing is that there is a place for both forms of zero-emission technology, and that they will complement each other on the roads of the near future.

The Inflation Reduction Act is funding the development of H2 refuelling stations across the country to accommodate the transport trucks that will be relying on them as they decarbonize. With that infrastructure in place, it would require very little to also accommodate the refuelling needs of passenger vehicles running on that same fuel.

No Perfect Solution

There has yet to be a perfect option developed to provide passenger vehicle transportation that doesn’t have a downside. Still, with a mix of EVs and hydrogen cars on the road, it could help these technologies to reduce each other’s negative impacts.

How many green cars are driving around compared to what most of us have?

May 6, 2023 1 

Will the new Toyota hydrogen car be available in the US?

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/new-toyota-hydrogen-car-us/8558539/

By JULIE CAMPBELL               https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/author/julie-2-2-2-2-2/

The automaker has unveiled its first new H2 sedan model in a decade and people are excited. This Toyota hydrogen…

May 13, 2023 2 

Is Ford getting interested in hydrogen fuel vehicles?

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/ford-hydrogen-fuel-vehicles/8558650/

By JULIE CAMPBELL

Ford Motor Company has announced that it will test a small fleet of hydrogen fuel vehicles in the UK. The…

May 18, 2023 3 

The Canadian market will require both EVs and hydrogen fuel cell cars

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars-ca/8558769/

By JULIE CAMPBELL

To hit its carbon emission reduction targets, the country will likely need more than one option. The Canadian federal government…

[Las Palmas]

4 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

Sam, any idea how many cars catch fire in the UK per year? How about 100,000.- or 300 each day. 65% is arson or crime related but the rest is petrol and diesel cars going up in smoke mainly due to accidents or bad maintenence. Batterycars are not more dangerous.

They burn longer

[Las Palmas]

4 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

chargingtimes have come down drastically with more powerful chargers of 3/450kw and cars that operate on 800v architecture. 10 to 15 minutes charging will give you a couple of hundred miles.

 

Which also will reduce the life span of the batteries

[flotsam]

9 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

Sam, any idea how many cars catch fire in the UK per year? How about 100,000.- or 300 each day. 65% is arson or crime related but the rest is petrol and diesel cars going up in smoke mainly due to accidents or bad maintenence. Batterycars are not more dangerous.

You can't just say that from such simple statistics.

Americans were complaining that they could set fire to water because fracking was introducing flammable gases into their water supply. That doesn't mean water is dangerous too.

What makes batteries so dangerous is that they catch fire when you're not mistreating them. Airlines banned transporting them in their cargo holds.

[flotsam]

9 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

Chinese car manufacturer www.nio.com has been doing this for some time and made it their unique sellingpoint. They own battery swap stations that are fully automated and you can change your battery within some minutes. However i dont think it will catch on in Europe as chargingtimes have come down drastically with more powerful chargers of 3/450kw and cars that operate on 800v architecture. 10 to 15 minutes charging will give you a couple of hundred miles.

 

The charging times is not the issue alone. Having a monopoly supplier for your batteries isn't a good idea.

[ganzoom]

11 hours ago, flotsam said:

An american company has revived the idea of battery swapping. Most EVs need

So, after all the demanding of a straight answer from Malc.,you offer a facetious answer yourself!

Can we have a straight answer please?

Answer on what Battery swap stations?

That was done and tried years ago, no one used them.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/battery-swap-pilot-program

We've actually just come back from a 330 mile weekend trip. The EV was only ever charged using a domestic UK socket. The beauty of EVs is the 'fuel' infrastructure is literally every where already. The last time we used M way charger was Feb, so coming up to 4 months ago.

Shame you cannot do the same hydrogen fuel cell cars.

[ganzoom]

5 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

Which also will reduce the life span of the batteries

How long do hydrogen fuel cell stacks last in the real world? 

[J Henderson]

11 hours ago, flotsam said:

CNN reports of a Li-ion battery on a escooter exploding in a London house:

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/05/19/escooter-fire-kitchen-london-cprog-orig-mg-ff.cnn

Perhaps Gang is desperate to sell his Tesla.

Here's another one you might enjoy.

 

 

[ganzoom]

All stores of energy can combust.....laws of physics can be mitigated but never bypassed.

Hydrogen is what fuels the sun, its the most reactive element in the periodic table. Luckily the world has never seen a Hydrogen bomb used in anger, but let's use it for personal transportation, what could go wrong?

https://youtu.be/fYuVzbIu_8o

 

 

 

[Shahpor]

14 hours ago, flotsam said:

Airlines banned transporting them in their cargo holds.

This is not true.

https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-industry/Airports/Safety/Dangerous-goods/Lithium-batteries/

As long as they are stored in the correct container, there are no restrictions on airlines transporting batteries as cargo.

[flotsam]

On 5/21/2023 at 11:21 AM, dutchie01 said:

Sam, any idea how many cars catch fire in the UK per year? How about 100,000.- or 300 each day. 65% is arson or crime related but the rest is petrol and diesel cars going up in smoke mainly due to accidents or bad maintenence. Batterycars are not more dangerous.

Hey! That's absolute figures not proportionate ones. There are FAR more ICE cars than Battery powered cars. GM even told owners of their Battery EV to not park within 50ft of anything in case it spontaneously combusts.

[flotsam]

4 hours ago, ganzoom said:

All stores of energy can combust.....laws of physics can be mitigated but never bypassed.

Hydrogen is what fuels the sun, its the most reactive element in the periodic table. Luckily the world has never seen a Hydrogen bomb used in anger, but let's use it for personal transportation, what could go wrong?

https://youtu.be/fYuVzbIu_8o

 

 

 

Well at least you've disproved the propaganda claiming hydrogen is difficult to store or transport. But I knew that anyway. Hydrogen was part of the town-gas decades ago transported via the gas grid.

[Malc1]

anyone ever seen a petrol car or bus explode  🥶

Malc

[Las Palmas]

58 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

anyone ever seen a petrol car or bus explode  🥶

Malc

Only happens in Hollywood movies.

[NemesisUK]

Megawatt Charging System will kill hydrogen trucks once and for all, says electric truck expert
 

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/megawatt-charging-system-will-kill-hydrogen-trucks-once-and-for-all-says-electric-truck-expert/

 

[First_Lexus]

21 hours ago, ganzoom said:

The EV was only ever charged using a domestic UK socket. The beauty of EVs is the 'fuel' infrastructure is literally every where already.

Out of interest, how long did it take to achieve a full charge from a domestic socket? Looking online the Model 3 takes 24-36 hours to fully charge from empty from a UK domestic socket? For a weekend trip that seems like an awful lot of inconvenience?

Is that what you meant, as I’m in the middle of a 400 mile round trip in my RX and will only have to fill it up once at the start and again at the end. What’s the range of your Tesla?

Just curious really to fully understand…

Charging time for a Tesla Model 3

Charging method	Typically found at	Charging time*
Empty to full
3-pin plug	Home	24 - 36 h
3.6kW	Home / Work	15 - 22 h
7kW	Home / Work / Public Locations	8 - 12 h

[flotsam]

21 hours ago, J Henderson said:

Here's another one you might enjoy.

 

 

Wow!

And the guy rushed back in with a carton of . . . . water?

Doesn't lithium react violently with water?

When Teslas spontaneously combust, it takes HUGE amounts of water to douse the flames.

[flotsam]

1 hour ago, First_Lexus said:

Out of interest, how long did it take to achieve a full charge from a domestic socket? Looking online the Model 3 takes 24-36 hours to fully charge from empty from a UK domestic socket? For a weekend trip that seems like an awful lot of inconvenience?

Is that what you meant, as I’m in the middle of a 400 mile round trip in my RX and will only have to fill it up once at the start and again at the end. What’s the range of your Tesla?

Just curious really to fully understand…

Charging time for a Tesla Model 3

Charging method	Typically found at	Charging time*
Empty to full
3-pin plug	Home	24 - 36 h
3.6kW	Home / Work	15 - 22 h
7kW	Home / Work / Public Locations	8 - 12 h

. . . and isn't the model 3 the one with the smallest Battery?

[flotsam]

22 hours ago, ganzoom said:

How long do hydrogen fuel cell stacks last in the real world? 

Well, since you ask, I've owned a hydrogen fuel cell for the last 450 years and it still works as new.

[flotsam]

2 hours ago, Malc1 said:

anyone ever seen a petrol car or bus explode  🥶

Malc

Nope!

The worst I've ever seen is a semi-truck tyre explode on the motorway.

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, NemesisUK said:

Megawatt Charging System will kill hydrogen trucks once and for all, says electric truck expert
 

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/megawatt-charging-system-will-kill-hydrogen-trucks-once-and-for-all-says-electric-truck-expert/

 

What a bunch on nonsense.

Where will they get the power grid that can deliver the power to supercharge and so far, electricity is still made from cheapest power source meaning that somewhere coal is being burnt to make electricity and most places oil.

[dutchie01]

15 hours ago, flotsam said:

Hey! That's absolute figures not proportionate ones. There are FAR more ICE cars than battery powered cars. GM even told owners of their battery EV to not park within 50ft of anything in case it spontaneously combusts.

That was in 2021 with the chevy bolt. There were issues with the Battery and they recalled 140k cars and even stopped production.

[dutchie01]

20 hours ago, ganzoom said:

All stores of energy can combust.....laws of physics can be mitigated but never bypassed.

Hydrogen is what fuels the sun, its the most reactive element in the periodic table. Luckily the world has never seen a Hydrogen bomb used in anger, but let's use it for personal transportation, what could go wrong?

https://youtu.be/fYuVzbIu_8o

 

 

 

It is the violent nature of hydrogene that is one of the factors delaying adaption. For instance rules and regulations in case of city buses. Firebrigade says no and when there is a leak in a tunnel or other closed off area you are on your own we are not going in. As a result insurance is complicated and who is responsible if it goes wrong leads to not doing it.