Hydrogen fuel rollout.

[dutchie01]

5 hours ago, Malc1 said:

That's a bugger then   BUT I presume HGVs can hog ordinary car diesel pumps and obliterate diesel car users .  it's a bugger !

Malc

Malc i might have a solution for you. Buy a Hydro powered HGV and stick a Lexus badge on it!

[Moleman]

1 minute ago, dutchie01 said:

Malc i might have a solution for you. Buy a Hydro powered HGV and stick a Lexus badge on it!

LS7000

[Las Palmas]

7 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

You know what. There's far too much BS regarding BEV or nothing. Those who believe that are totally deluded and I'd live to meet up with those half wits and tell them face to face and knock some sense into their numd skulls with my trusty kosh.

Diesel cars can't fill up at HGV pumps because the nozzles are much bigger than the car ones.

Seems not to be a problem if you want to fill with hydrogen. That is only for diesel there is a problem.

https://hydrogen-central.com/luxembourg-gets-first-hydrogen-filling-station/ - September 13, 2022

Luxembourg Gets its First Hydrogen Filling Station

OK for both Toyota Mirai and the Hyundai Nexeo and trucks.

 

Probably are filling stations not different when they come to UK.

 

There are currently 7 filling stations with hydrogen supply in Belgium.

There are 15 hydrogen filling stations open to the public in the Netherlands.

[ganzoom]

14 hours ago, Malc1 said:

Gang, do you need to return to primary school to learn to read all that's being said about the potential roll-out ?

Gawd 'elp us all 🤣

Malc

So the answer is Yes? 1200 BP hydrogen fuel stations is fantasy?

Can you not give a straight yes or no answer?

[Malc1]

2 hours ago, ganzoom said:

Can you not give a straight yes or no answer?

maybe . not sure ...... have you read the points here about the potential roll-out though ?

Malc

[Las Palmas]

There is an ignore possibility in the forum. It does function.

[flotsam]

Lamborghini have released their huracan sterrato.

https://www.lamborghini.com/en-en/models/huracan/huracan-sterrato

So is the proposed ban on ICE cars to make us make do and mend rather than buying new?

[flotsam]

Huh? CNN claims hydrogen is more energy dense than "traditional jet fuel". So why hasn't it always been used?

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/destinus-hypersonic-plane/index.html

[ganzoom]

3 hours ago, Malc1 said:

maybe . not sure ...... have you read the points here about the potential roll-out though ?

Malc

So you cannot answer a question with a straight No or Yes?

Is 1200+ BP hydrogen fuel stations fantasy? Yes or No? Is it that hard concept to grasp?

[Malc1]

4 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

So you cannot answer a question with a straight No or Yes?

Is 1200+ BP hydrogen fuel stations fantasy? Yes or No? Is it that hard concept to grasp?

sadly the Q is a bit dopey once one has read the dialogue herewith .............  and a normal adult, grown-up intelligence has even tried to comprehend what's going on with the hydrogen fuel availability and likely roll-out .................. 

Malc

[ganzoom]

19 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

sadly the Q is a bit dopey once one has read the dialogue herewith .............  and a normal adult, grown-up intelligence has even tried to comprehend what's going on with the hydrogen fuel availability and likely roll-out .................. 

Malc

....and the answer is?? Comeon it's not hard is it? Yes or No? 🙂

[dutchie01]

Gang why do you keep pushing, surely there are more important things in life? Let go and concentrate on technical developments in electric propulsion and Battery technology that is still in its infancy. Or the massive Chinese exports of BEVs that are on their way and are a huge threat to the 800,000. people working in the UK automotive sector. This is no longer about who is in favor of electric cars or who hates them that is completely irrelevant if you look at the bigger picture, namely, which UK manufacturing plants will close down within five years from now. Come on Gang, will this be more that 12 or less? 

[Moleman]

1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

if you look at the bigger picture

Not sure Gang has the intellectual capability. 

[flotsam]

3 hours ago, flotsam said:

Huh? CNN claims hydrogen is more energy dense than "traditional jet fuel". So why hasn't it always been used?

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/destinus-hypersonic-plane/index.html

The Economist contradicts CNN:

https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/14/the-aviation-industry-wants-to-be-net-zero-but-not-soon

[dutchie01]

1 hour ago, Moleman said:

Not sure Gang has the intellectual capability. 

I am sure he has. Lets not get personal but stay on topic please? Every opinion is valuable especially if it differs from ones own

[Moleman]

12 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

I am sure he has. Lets not get personal but stay on topic please? Every opinion is valuable especially if it differs from ones own

He is not expressing an opinion, he is being obtuse.

 

[Moleman]

18 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

Every opinion is valuable especially if it differs from ones own

Very true, something Gang should remember.

[Malc1]

2 minutes ago, Moleman said:

he is being obtuse.

finessing that particular angle ........  to some excellence ........ geometrically, correctness notwithstanding ....  obtuse angles are often rare and one might wish them to be rarer too  ... 😉

Malc

[Bluemarlin]

5 hours ago, ganzoom said:

Is 1200+ BP hydrogen fuel stations fantasy? Yes or No?

No

[Las Palmas]

5 hours ago, flotsam said:

Huh? CNN claims hydrogen is more energy dense than "traditional jet fuel". So why hasn't it always been used?

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/destinus-hypersonic-plane/index.html

Greed, corruption, availability of fuel that was easier to handle.

Same reasons as the Battery EV power that stupid politician's thought was easier to roll out as they believed the net was there already, had power enough and did not need them to start thinking.

[Malc1]

6 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Greed, corruption, availability of fuel that was easier to handle.

Same reasons as the battery EV power that stupid politician's thought was easier to roll out as they believed the net was there already, had power enough and did not need them to start thinking.

It’s so so dangerous when politicians start thinking 🥵

Malc 

[Las Palmas]

2 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

It’s so so dangerous when politicians start thinking 🥵

Malc 

Do not worry.

They are not able to.

[Las Palmas]

Is this too big to rebadge to LS700?

 

Not a problem, something will come that will fit you with the right fuel Malcolm.

 

Now that heavy land transport is going in the right direction, sea- and air-transport will be next. We poor ones with private cars will wait patiently till it is our turn to be lucky.

Just read that this is one of many projects from Toyota with H2 fuel.

 

Toyota and VDL Groep to convert heavy-duty vehicles into hydrogen fuel cell trucks

By ALICIA MOORE           https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/author/alicia-2-2-2-2/

The companies have partnered to speed up the decarbonization of the road logistics sector.

Toyota Motor Europe (TME) and Dutch VDL Groep have teamed up to covert VDL’s existing heavy-duty trucks into hydrogen fuel cell trucks using Toyota’s fuel cell modules, with a goal to accelerate decarbonizing the road logistics sector while also breaking into Europe’s zero-emission heavy duty H2 trucks market.

Toyota sees significant potential in using H2 trucks to decarbonize its logistic routes.

Toyota Motor Europe seeks to achieve its full carbon-neutral strategy by 2040, and speeding up the decarbonization of the road logistics sector with hydrogen fuel cell trucks is an important factor in achieving this goal.

H2 trucks can be quickly refuelled – as fast as diesel – and hydrogen systems have a lower mass, which allows for a heavier payload. This can make them essential for transport with high utilization and key contributors in evolving sustainable infrastructures around key routes in Europe.

“We are excited to begin this project with VDL Groep, as it will allow us to further decarbonise the long-haul transport of our components, vehicles and service parts,” said Leon Van Der Merwe, VP Supply Chain Toyota Motor Europe, in a recent TME news release.

The first of the hydrogen fuel cell trucks will be ready by summer 2023.

VDL Special Vehicles (a part of VDL Groep), a specialist in the field of Battery electric and hydrogen solutions for on- and off-road vehicles, will build the first hydrogen truck by this summer. Following this first fuel cell truck, the companies will produce and assess more hydrogen fuel cell trucks on TME logistics routes in the fall.

The project will combine knowledge on how to deploy fuel cell trucks. This will further support the company’s long-term goal of lowering Toyota’s carbon footprint and decarbonizing logistics with vehicles other than passenger EVs.
“Heavy-duty trucks will remain an important pillar within our multimodal strategy, and the introduction of zero-emission trucks, equipped with our Toyota fuel cell modules, will have a strong impact on the overall carbon reduction of our logistics,” added Van Der Merwe.

This new truck project is one among many H2 projects for Toyota.

The hydrogen fuel cell trucks project Toyota has in partnership with VDL Groep is only one of many H2 projects that the automaker has put into place with multiple partners. Other projects Toyota has in the works for the purpose of speeding up the transition toward a hydrogen economy include those for light commercial vehicles, buses, trains, and boats.

Toyota believes that fuel cell trucks have a key role to play in the growth of the wider European H2 ecosystem. These trucks can strongly support the decarbonization of transport as well as an ecological energy transition.

[Las Palmas]

One among many H2 projects for Toyota!

So why don't we just wait in line?

How long time is a fuel-cell supposed to last?

According to Toyota will the fuel-cells in a Mirai last the lifetime of the car, and when speaking of lifetime of cars from one of the more reliable car manufacturers in the world it is quite a long time; much longer than a Battery normally will last with decent capacity.

What to do with all the cars that are powered from batteries when Battery no longer is up to what is expected of it? The electric motors in the car and the computer circuits will still be able to be reused. While the electric motors can be used without modification, the computer may not be possible to use without modification.

 

Remember it is not just Toyota that is working on H2. And not only fuel-cells.

 

 

Here we go again:

The hydrogen fuel variant of the internal combustion engines (ICE) is according to Westport, a technology that will be critical to the transition to zero-carbon emissions over the next couple of decades. Not one company is interested in letting their expensive truck be disposed of. A truck is usually bought with the expectation of being able to last 1.000.000 km or in many cases about 30 years.

 

The HPDI system makes it possible for existing ICE architecture to operate on a number of alternative fuel options. Among them are natural gas (another fossil fuel), renewable natural gas (biomethane), syngas, and H2. Each of these is gaining notable attention as a diesel alternative option, though it is H2 that has been taking the spotlight since the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA).

The hydrogen fuel system allows existing vehicles and manufacturing infrastructures to be leveraged.

An ICE with the HPDI system and that is fuelled with H2 is able to achieve a CO2 level at near zero, according to the company. At the same time, it still allows the vehicle to provide peak performance spanning power, torque and efficiency.

 

IMPORTANT:

H2 is today not solely produced from renewable power sources, so it is not entirely clean.

That is a fact! - But – exactly the same is the case with all other “GREEN” power sources.

Batteries are filled with electricity from various fuels and not many of these can be called really green. Worse is it that power put into batteries is self-discharging and that batteries have a relatively short life before no longer being able to store promised amount of power.

 

 

So now that some of the problems with internal combustion engines are being worked on and it is no longer needed to throw away the truck fleet what is happening with transport in air?

 

 

German Airport Soars with Hydrogen Fuel and SAF Investment

By JAKE BANKS               https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/author/jake-2-2-2-2/

The Hamburg Airport is making moves toward sustainable aviation with more than one option.

The Hamburg Airport in Germany is keeping up its investments into sustainable aviation with a fresh focus on projects that have to do with hydrogen fuel and SAF powered aircraft.

The airport is moving ahead in this effort through a partnership it has made with Lufthansa Technik.

Hamburg Airport has partnered with aircraft maintenance, repair and overhaul service provider Lufthansa Technik. That company conducts commercial aircraft conversions into special mission and VIP aircraft. It explained that its collaboration with the airport would mean that the aviation industry in Germany would become suitable for sustainable aviation fuel (SAF).

That said, this focus on hydrogen fuel and SAF has arrived at a time when the airport has already been developing a reputation for using renewable diesel for all its diesel-powered ground vehicles.

Lufthansa Technik will conduct a range of tests on hydrogen fuel technology handling.

According to the company, it is going to be testing a number of processes throughout the next couple of years, in order to observe the way H2 tech is handled. In addition to the Hamburg Airport, Lufthansa Technik is also working with the Centre for Applied Aeronautical Research and the “German Aerospace Center” in order to facilitate the testing process.

The funds for the project were provided by the city of Hamburg. The tests will take place in a unique laboratory, said the company.

“For this purpose, an aircraft of the Airbus A320 family will be converted into a stationary laboratory at Lufthansa Technik’s base in Hamburg,” said a statement from the company. “Within this lab, the partners want to test the effects of Liquid Hydrogen (LH2) on maintenance and ground processes.”

The Lab

The laboratory is called the Hydrogen Aviation Lab, and it is built into a thirty-year-old aircraft. It will be equipped with a full range of testing systems, a liquid hydrogen fuel tank, and a fuel cell which will be paired with supporting ground-based H2 infrastructure.

By using this lab, the partners will be able to handle and maintain aircraft using H2, which are slated to begin service in the mid-2030s.

 

[Malc1]

25 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

A truck is usually bought with the expectation of being able to last 1.000.000 km or in many cases about 30 years.

Well, so is a Toyota / Lexus car for sure  ( that's only 625k miles ) ..................  mine's already 28 years young at 245k miles and another 32 years of excellent comfy, reliable, simply comparative non-expensive motoring awaits me  .....  well I'll be 103 then so maybe not eh !   🤣

Might have to give up on the Ls700 and just stick to me Mk3 Ls400 then  .....  petrol E5 and whatever is the juice of my future 😇

Malc