Hydrogen fuel rollout.

[Malc1]

Gang, it’s simple ……… if your mind is thinking there are 1200 Hydrogen filling stations in the UK then you, and all others are, quite rightly,  fantasising ……. But if you open your mind to reality that with BP alone there is the likely potential for 1200+ hydrogen refill pumps then that would be a quite sensible and realistic  “ fantasy “  to dwell upon 

Just hope all this fantasising doesn’t keep you awake at night 🥵

……. AND when BP roll-out these Hydrogen refuel  pumps then there’s the potential for ( inter alia ) Shell, Mobil, Esso,  Texaco and say MFG to do so too …… covering Asda, Tesco, Sainsbury, Morrison and Co-Op fuel station estates too ( have I forgotten any ? 😰 ) 

…… these may all provide pretty dots on your screen when searching ……. 👍
 

Best wishes 

Malc 

[dutchie01]

Malc, everything ( well almost) is possible but lets look at the business side of things. Installing a Hydro station seems to cost around 1 million. multiply by 1200 and what do you get? Sounds like a good profitable case to you? How many hydro cars are rolling around in the UK at the moment? What is the prediction, which brands will launch Hydro cars this year/next year? Nothing zilch nada. I see a future in heavy transport and industry but your LS700 is more likely to be electric.

 

[Las Palmas]

5 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

which brands will launch Hydro cars this year/next year? 

Toyota claim they will launch one this fall. Toyota sometimes do what they say. ???

[dutchie01]

7 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

Toyota claim they will launch one this fall. Toyota sometimes do what they say. ???

Toyotas japanese conservatism could well bite them bad this time around. Dig into the financials and you will find not all is rosy and sweet. Moreover the market is quickly walking away from them as they have no bev cars available. Fine if they will launch a new mirai but nobody will buy it just like now really..

[Las Palmas]

Hi Malcolm,

BP is suddenly all over the news. Maybe Ford make it easy for you to point to some BP stations with H2 fuelling possibilities.

UK: https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/ford-hydrogen-fuel-vehicles/8558650/?awt_a=1jpsU&awt_l=IFzTR&awt_m=iRViXZ.bWu5DlsU

Ford and BP: https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/ford-hydrogen-fuel-vehicles/8558650/?awt_a=1jpsU&awt_l=IFzTR&awt_m=iRViXZ.bWu5DlsU#The_company_is_planning_to_test_a_small_fleet_of_H2-powered_E-Transit_vans_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

Then there is so much talk about the question: Is hydrogen really GREEN? Does it need to be really green in order to be better/cleaner than other fuel or power sources? Answer is NO!

Electricity in the net from where we consumers get it are not made from GREEN sources. So why does H2 need to be that?

Seeing all the electric mini vans driving around here from Correos (postal service) with "GREEN Powered" written on them is as stupid as believing that the electricity we use for household is all made from GREEN sources.

 

[Malc1]

Guys, this is just so so informative and intensely interesting ….. thank you 

UK wide HGV and Bus and van Hydrogen powered vehicles ….. and at Ocado sites too ….. so tell me, coz I really don’t know this ….. is there  any reason why cars cannot refuel at HGV and Bus and van refuel points ??

I see many forecourts have designated areas for HGV and Bus refuelling and I’ve assumed they’re there to keep big stuff away from motorists in a greater volume of cars 

is there anything special about their specific fuel that cars couldn’t use ? 

Hydrogen refuelling tanks installed by forecourt running businesses like BP, won’t just restrict the fuel availability to HGVs Buses and vans I’m sure 

That would be simply dopey economics  

hydrogen is on its way and the Ford and Toyota cars  will follow as night follows day …. and my Hydrogen powered Ls700 might follow on too 

the choice might be, do I plump for a left-hooker Ford sedan OR a Toyota rebadged to Lexus sedan Ls700  ? 🤔
 

what might be my and your preference ? 😂

Malc 

 

 

 

[dutchie01]

Malc, reality is that even for Lorries etc it is experimental technologie that is beeing tested. Nothing new as for instance BMW has been experimenting with Hydro cars for over 40 years now and guess what? they are still experimenting with it. It seems to be widely accepted that Large vehicles, boats, industry will have a future with Hydro but cars not. Suppose it will be possible to fill you car at a HGV station where are the cars? there are none and no manufacturer is going to invest billions in development and bring them to market for a simple reason. The choice has already been made and it is Batteries and nothing else. Like it or not but billions and billions have been and will be invested in exactly this. I predict electric cars to take over the market at an ever increasing speed and car manufacturers that do not or will not invest in this will simply disappear. Who? well Jaguar Landrover for instance. Most Japanese but especially Honda and Mitsubishi, Fiat, Lancia, the americans. Chinese manufacturers are steamrolling the market just look at the figures that are telling the story as it is. 

[Malc1]

Bernard, yes, I quite agree .. so I'll be hunting out these few and far between Hydro refuelling stations around the Nation, nay, even the world .  to take me'self on my magical journeys in my new re-badged Toyota sedan, Mirai maybe, Crown sedan even ......  rebadge it to a Lexus Ls700 and then .............  off we go ...........  hydrogensupersonic ......... .  even if I have to just lease one from Toyota, ship her over, and surreptitiously rebadge her to my Ls700

Let's await with interest how the refuelling roll-out capability pans out ......  clearly a long range mileage forecast would help immensely .  the hydrosupersonic speed thingy really won't worry me too much ..  I'll keep to max 70mph where I'm allowed for sure ..  and it should conform with herr Sadiq Khan's ULEZ crisis management for the environment ...

Next Q is, can I get it on the road in the UK within the HMRC tax allowable thingy with my company ?  as a company car !   🤩

Malc

[Bluemarlin]

23 hours ago, ganzoom said:

So 1200 hydrogen fuel stations is currently fantasy...just want to make sure I really understand :).

Not really, it's more of a conditional statement, in that if hydrogen cars become widely adopted, then 1200 stations will be built. Therefore, if the condition is met, the outcome will occur. So it's no more a fantasy than petrol stations and charging points before ICE cars and EVs were widely adopted.

One might have once thought that geographically separated strangers, debating semantic irrelevancies, would be a fantasy, but then some idiot invented the internet, and created the condition for that reality to be met 🙂

[Malc1]

2 hours ago, Malc1 said:

Next Q is, can I get it on the road in the UK within the HMRC tax allowable thingy with my company ?  as a company car !   🤩

Anyone an inkling of this figure £££££  .  my searching of the HMRC website just does NOT seem to elude to a specific £££££ figure  .  just allowance %%%s and style of Use etc and as a %%%%

I'm a little loathe at this stage to ask my company's accountant coz I do know there will be a real ££££ charge 🤑

Thanks anyone

Malc

 

[ganzoom]

So 1200 hydrogen fuel stations is fantasy?? I'm really confused it's such a simple question, yes or no???

[dutchie01]

3 hours ago, ganzoom said:

So 1200 hydrogen fuel stations is fantasy?? I'm really confused it's such a simple question, yes or no???

Who cares Gang

[flotsam]

9 hours ago, Malc1 said:

UK wide HGV and Bus and van Hydrogen powered vehicles ….. and at Ocado sites too ….. so tell me, coz I really don’t know this ….. is there  any reason why cars cannot refuel at HGV and Bus and van refuel points ??

They may make it similar to red diesel; only for commercial vehicles. The House of Lords has already criticised those giving false hope for hydrogen boilers in homes and hydrogen cars, even as the Telegraph (if memory serves) has announced the gas grid will install plastic pipes for hydrogen. Not sure how town-gas managed to supply part-hydrogen to homes decades ago. So it looks like they want us to buy Battery EVs (possibly to encourage us to also buy solar panels and wind turbines) and then about ten years on find that the Battery won't accept charge any more and only then buy a hydrogen FCV.

[flotsam]

Toyota have produced a revised version of their Mirai and BMW have announced hydrogen products too, though I'm not sure at what stage they're at. So it looks like they're downplaying hydrogen but quietly developing it.

As I understand it, Hong Kong already has hydrogen buses. Didn't the 2008 Beijing Olympics feature Mirai cars?

[NemesisUK]

I think there are numerous councils using hydrogen powered buses in the UK

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-on-track-to-reach-4000-zero-emission-bus-pledge-with-200-million-boost

 

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, flotsam said:

Toyota have produced a revised version of their Mirai and BMW have announced hydrogen products too, though I'm not sure at what stage they're at. So it looks like they're downplaying hydrogen but quietly developing it.

As I understand it, Hong Kong already has hydrogen buses. Didn't the 2008 Beijing Olympics feature Mirai cars?

2008 no info I know of but 2020, yes:

[Malc1]

1 hour ago, flotsam said:

looks like they're downplaying hydrogen but quietly developing it.

BP too with their hydrogen fuel production facility in the North of England  😉

methinks we'll be there in a jiffy or two .......  whistling hopefully 😇

Malc

[Las Palmas]

Why should they tell competition how far they are or what they are going to do next?

Better to come with something that will get them back in front again.

[Guest]

I can see hydrogen bus, lorry etc but not sure about passenger cars, how many BEV’s are there now or in the pipeline against how many hydrogen cars? manufacturers aren’t going to go down an expensive R & D route to suddenly do an about turn, I’m not for or against electric cars but I think we may be too far down that road to change.

Malc you might need to look at an ES as your LS700 might never become reality!!

[Malc1]

10 hours ago, Derant said:

you might need to look at an ES as your LS700 might never become reality!!

nope, I'm going to wait for the new Toyota sedan Hydrogen powered car ( which actually is reality ) to emerge and be able to be exported to the UK ..  I can rebadge that as my personalised Ls700 for sure  .  All I need is the ability to refuel her at one of these Hydrogen refuelling stops that are going to be nationwide ( as already in some other countries I'm reading ) that are going to be in place for HGVs, buses etc .  incl Ocado vans 

AND / OR     I track down where the UK police refuel there existing fleets of Toyota Mirai Hydrogen powered cars and do a deal with them .  it might be that the range miles of the new Toyota sedan, to be my Ls700  will prevail and enable me to refill very infrequently .  let's see

I think this is all a-pace and will be with us sooner than we can shake a leg at it .  well, an elephant's leg that might be .

It's on it's way for sure .  so does anyone know the answer to my Q about the HMRC tax break limit on a Company car  ?      Have to get the guys in my business working harder to get me more spondoolies to get one before i croak it ....  I'm 73 now so my dream had best be a little faster than you think it might materialise eh !  🤩

 

Malc

[Mr Vlad]

You know what. There's far too much BS regarding BEV or nothing. Those who believe that are totally deluded and I'd live to meet up with those half wits and tell them face to face and knock some sense into their numd skulls with my trusty kosh.

Diesel cars can't fill up at HGV pumps because the nozzles are much bigger than the car ones.

[Malc1]

9 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Diesel cars can't fill up at HGV pumps because the nozzles are much bigger than the car ones.

That's a bugger then   BUT I presume HGVs can hog ordinary car diesel pumps and obliterate diesel car users .  it's a bugger !

Malc

[Las Palmas]

51 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

That's a bugger then   BUT I presume HGVs can hog ordinary car diesel pumps and obliterate diesel car users .  it's a bugger !

Malc

No reason for different size of fuelling nozzles same hydrogen as pressure is high enough to let it get in fast enough. There are 2 different kinds of nozzles for the 2 different kinds of pressure of hydrogen. H70 is for 10psi and H35 for 5psi. Suppose that in future most will be H70 as making tanks for 10psi is not that much more expensive than for 5psi. Both are high pressure and one of the expensive parts. Mirai is compatible with both.

 

Something little known:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9026090/

Valves in a car running that mixed fuel must be closing close to perfect.

[ganzoom]

So those 1200 BP hydrogen fuel stations are still fantasy?

[Malc1]

11 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

So those 1200 BP hydrogen fuel stations are still fantasy?

Gang, do you need to return to primary school to learn to read all that's being said about the potential roll-out ?

Gawd 'elp us all 🤣

Malc