No Permission To View Topic

[Mr Vlad]

Excellently put Donk. I've mentioned a good while back that, I'll use the word pollution, pollution has been man made for centuries. The industrial revolution must have caused mega tons of nasty stuff. The multitude of cotton Mills in Lancashire creating smog on smog. Of course things must have been said but if it wasn't for the industrial revolution then where the rubber duck would we be now.

There's far too many do-gooders who are basically self centred egocentric A holes who want to make life sheeite for everyone else. 

Interesting animation video but I got bored of it after where that poor 'guy' was searching for pulp fiction to watch. Some folk don't arf have a vivid imagination lol.

[toffee_pie]

7 hours ago, donkmeister said:

How many degrees do you have, that despite being an engineer, you cannot count them? 😜  

The problem (for me) is twofold: firstly, some people point at The Environment as a reason for doing something when the reality is that particular thing won't really help. Secondly, people seeing that sort of thing and declaring "well, if that one bit is hogwash then it is ALL hogwash".

You need to look at each thing on its own merits.

Manmade climate change is there. We know what we've been burning since the Industrial Revolution, we can predict what the likely effects are on the climate and have been doing so for decades, and there has been a measurable change.

However, slowing the motorway down past a massively polluting steelworks is ****** in the wind (although I suspect that particular one is more to do with local air quality. Still ****** in the wind though!) Some idiot coming up with that as an idea, or putting a buslane on the M4 etc does not invalidate the fact that man-made climate change has been happening and will continue to happen so long as mankind carries on with the current set of industrial processes.

Climate science throws up some interesting stuff from time to time; I remember reading a paper demonstrating an increase in lead levels in Arctic ice due to a sudden increase in silver mining across Europe (particularly in the British Isles) in the middle ages. It's not just grumpy people telling you you aren't allowed a V8 anymore.

A decade of academic studies gets a few degrees, and a Master's at that. Funnily enough it's a Master of Engineering Science in Microelectronics, so I'm a scientist after all it seems.

The problem now and it's obvious it's going back to covid is the narrative, it's all one way traffic and there's no questions asked and if you do ask anything you get the usual conspiracy theory, where did you study and show me the evidence. The same folk now will proclaim 15 minute commutes are perfect for my work commute, it's highly unlikely that is the case but it's what their brains are saying. They have an answer for everything, seems like brainwashing to me.

It's getting a bit ridiculous now, boring, tedious and almost inevitable what's happening is almost predictable.

And all these council climate preventative measures are gone way past the climate and clearly are infringing your very own freedom and independence. That's why I wrote to my council and asked for a concise breakdown of where my council tax is actually going - there's obviously widespread corruption going on, that's the problem we have.

 

[Malc1]

9 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

there was actually a meeting in Rio in 1992 to discuss how the future will be, am I missing something here or was that meeting fabricated.

no it was real and took place.

a friend was at the conference with the UK Govt contingent

Horrified that the Rio authorities just cleared the streets of the myriad waifs and strays and " disposed " of them in one way or another ....  street and neighbourhood cleansing

Malc

[toffee_pie]

19 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

no it was real and took place.

a friend was at the conference with the UK Govt contingent

Horrified that the Rio authorities just cleared the streets of the myriad waifs and strays and " disposed " of them in one way or another ....  street and neighbourhood cleansing

Malc

That's not the only thing that they cleansed...

[toffee_pie]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-madness-of-low-traffic-neighbourhoods/

Have a read and tell me this is about the climate? Like I said we are way past saving the planet, net zero is just a controlling mechanism, after all how better to get control than convince people that the planet is crashing and burning and their very existence on earth is at stake.

[toffee_pie]

Your phone, is making a loud beep on April 23rd, the gov are saying it's an alert warning message. I'm saying it's more controlling nonsense, our brains are bad enough at this stage. 

The other side will no doubt say this system is used all over the world to warn you of earthquake's and tornado's, Tsunamis and such events, which is well and good but them situations are unlikely to trouble the average Briton.

[LenT]

4 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

Your phone, is making a loud beep on April 23rd, the gov are saying it's an alert warning message. I'm saying it's more controlling nonsense, our brains are bad enough at this stage. 

The other side will no doubt say this system is used all over the world to warn you of earthquake's and tornado's, Tsunamis and such events, which is well and good but them situations are unlikely to trouble the average Briton.

A small selection of recent ‘them situations’ which I suggest did trouble some average Britons.  I suspect a ‘controlling’ alert warning would have been well received.

https://floodlist.com/europe/united-kingdom/flooding-worst-storms-20-years

https://floodlist.com/europe/united-kingdom/floods-jonas-gerturde-scotland-england

https://floodlist.com/europe/united-kingdom/floods-heavy-rain-snow-easter-april-2018

https://floodlist.com/europe/united-kingdom/storm-dennis-floods-england-wales-february-2020

https://floodlist.com/europe/united-kingdom/flash-floods-peterborough-july-2021
 

https://floodlist.com/europe/united-kingdom/floods-storm-franklin-february-2022

Many others are available.

[toffee_pie]

26 minutes ago, LenT said:

A small selection of recent ‘them situations’ which I suggest did trouble some average Britons.  I suspect a ‘controlling’ alert warning would have been well received.

https://floodlist.com/europe/united-kingdom/flooding-worst-storms-20-years

https://floodlist.com/europe/united-kingdom/floods-jonas-gerturde-scotland-england

https://floodlist.com/europe/united-kingdom/floods-heavy-rain-snow-easter-april-2018

https://floodlist.com/europe/united-kingdom/storm-dennis-floods-england-wales-february-2020

https://floodlist.com/europe/united-kingdom/flash-floods-peterborough-july-2021
 

https://floodlist.com/europe/united-kingdom/floods-storm-franklin-february-2022

Many others are available.

Follow the source, I already mentioned this as much as I have said that you lot have a response for everything. The earthquake in San Francisco in 1906, is that due to climate change? There's natural events occuring all the time, do you think that snow will vanish in the winter and we won't have 35C summers anymore once we are all driving electric cars? That's quite funny but what do I know. Australia, I guess they won't have 40C weather anymore. 

Look at this...

Covid jabs will be given to vulnerable BABIES for first time: Health chiefs recommend two Pfizer doses for 60,000 at-risk infants aged between 6 months and 4 years old.

Do you think this is normal? We aren't even told statistics on people dead from vaccines, you are saying that's because there's none, right,?

This looks more and more like genocide but the powers that be can get away with it for the same reason that they can implement all the climate change measures in cities and 15 minute commutes.

The brainwashing is worse than what happened in WW2 frankly, the science have convinced you that 2 tonne electric cars with half a tonne of lithium batteries per vehicle are saving the planet.

Do you actually ever even start to ask questions... stop and think.

 

 

[LenT]

Just to recap, Eric....

Your original claim was:

10 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

Your phone, is making a loud beep on April 23rd, the gov are saying it's an alert warning message. I'm saying it's more controlling nonsense, our brains are bad enough at this stage. 

The other side will no doubt say this system is used all over the world to warn you of earthquake's and tornado's, Tsunamis and such events, which is well and good but them situations are unlikely to trouble the average Briton.

I showed you that there are annually many natural events that 'trouble the average Briton' whose damaging effects could be mitigated by an advanced alert warning.

In our own village there are about 40 homes susceptible to field run-off caused by flash floods.  The local Water Authority does a fine job issuing web-based warnings, emails and such-like.  But they are scant consolation when you discover torrential overnight rain has left your ground floor ankle deep in water.

No-one here is going to feel that being woken up in order to deploy a flood barrier is the devious machination of a controlling Government!

However, your answer to that point was to ignore it.  Instead you ask:

5 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

The earthquake in San Francisco in 1906, is that due to climate change?

This is not a question many would ask as most people appreciate the distinction between climatology and plate tectonics. However, this event, the rupture at the San Andreas Fault, probably did mark the start of seismology as a science.  Along with volcanology, the ability to predict such natural events has progressed significantly and when effective alerts have been issued, lives have undoubtedly been saved.

A better example would have been the San Francisco Fire that followed, which destroyed 80% of the City.  More importantly, it killed 3,000 people - almost all of whom might have been saved had they had the technology to receive an alert warning message. 

Apart from those paranoid few, obviously, who deemed them a Government plot to control the population of the City...or something.

 

[toffee_pie]

5 hours ago, LenT said:

Just to recap, Eric....

Your original claim was:

I showed you that there are annually many natural events that 'trouble the average Briton' whose damaging effects could be mitigated by an advanced alert warning.

In our own village there are about 40 homes susceptible to field run-off caused by flash floods.  The local Water Authority does a fine job issuing web-based warnings, emails and such-like.  But they are scant consolation when you discover torrential overnight rain has left your ground floor ankle deep in water.

No-one here is going to feel that being woken up in order to deploy a flood barrier is the devious machination of a controlling Government!

However, your answer to that point was to ignore it.  Instead you ask:

This is not a question many would ask as most people appreciate the distinction between climatology and plate tectonics. However, this event, the rupture at the San Andreas Fault, probably did mark the start of seismology as a science.  Along with volcanology, the ability to predict such natural events has progressed significantly and when effective alerts have been issued, lives have undoubtedly been saved.

A better example would have been the San Francisco Fire that followed, which destroyed 80% of the City.  More importantly, it killed 3,000 people - almost all of whom might have been saved had they had the technology to receive an alert warning message. 

Apart from those paranoid few, obviously, who deemed them a Government plot to control the population of the City...or something.

 

When covid was rife it was killing thousands per week, dead 14 days after testing positive cause of death covid - every man woman and child died of covid irrespective of their medical conditions. It's been a steaming pile of bs from day one with frivolous lies and data to coerce people get boosted and now years later nobody says anything about the sudden deaths, people are too thick unfortunately. 

To question anything, this includes electric cars, and all the climate skulduggery going on in the world all you can say is conspiracy theory 

Covid was all about control, turning the western world into pawns, and killing them off. The stuff of science fiction, who would have thought that the gov could do that. What we have now is a nation of digital bots brainwashed so much they accept 15 minute commutes as normal, soon eating bugs is normal if that's what they wish to do. That's what covid has done

 

[toffee_pie]

https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/zurich-becomes-second-major-insurer-quit-climate-alliance-2023-04-05/

Net zero is the swindle of the century 

[toffee_pie]

It looks like the telegraph hasn't read the climate change memo

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/29/net-zero-trojan-horse-total-destruction-western-society/

[LenT]

2 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

When covid was rife it was killing thousands per week, dead 14 days after testing positive cause of death covid - every man woman and child died of covid irrespective of their medical conditions. It's been a steaming pile of bs from day one with frivolous lies and data to coerce people get boosted and now years later nobody says anything about the sudden deaths, people are too thick unfortunately. 

To question anything, this includes electric cars, and all the climate skulduggery going on in the world all you can say is conspiracy theory 

Covid was all about control, turning the western world into pawns, and killing them off. The stuff of science fiction, who would have thought that the gov could do that. What we have now is a nation of digital bots brainwashed so much they accept 15 minute commutes as normal, soon eating bugs is normal if that's what they wish to do. That's what covid has done

 

And the relevance of this to your claim that alert warning messages are ‘controlling nonsense’ is……what, precisely?

[Mr Vlad]

My personal opinion regarding the unfortunate deaths which were attributed to covid is this. Those who died of covid did Not die of covid itself. Those unfortunate souls had underlying issues which would eventually have killed them. Covid just triggered something in those underlying issues and worked its evil magic on them causing death. The news reports of those deaths were sketchy at best. Bordering on false news broadcasting. 

As for whether an earthquake took place or not. Geeeeez. It goes to show even the most educationally qualified folk can be as thick as dog pooh.

[Bluemarlin]

16 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

Look at this...

Covid jabs will be given to vulnerable BABIES for first time: Health chiefs recommend two Pfizer doses for 60,000 at-risk infants aged between 6 months and 4 years old.

Do you think this is normal? We aren't even told statistics on people dead from vaccines, you are saying that's because there's none, right,?

This looks more and more like genocide but the powers that be can get away with it for the same reason that they can implement all the climate change measures in cities and 15 minute commutes.

The brainwashing is worse than what happened in WW2 frankly, the science have convinced you that 2 tonne electric cars with half a tonne of lithium batteries per vehicle are saving the planet.

Do you actually ever even start to ask questions... stop and think.

 

 

I think it's perfectly normal that infants who have underlying health conditions, that make them more vulnerable, are offered the vaccine. In fact I'd think it was scandalous if they weren't. From what I read, it's just being offered, no-one is being forced.

I'm really struggling to follow your logic with these claims of using the vaccine to commit genocide. Let's imagine for one minute that I wanted to kill millions of people. Surely I'd have had more success doing nothing, while people dropped liked flies from the virus, rather than producing a vaccine that almost immediately reduced the number of deaths. Maybe a small number of people died from vaccination complications, but millions of deaths were prevented.

As for 15 minute cities and low traffic neighbourhoods, it's swings and roundabouts. A 15 minute city is not much different to a village, and lot's of people like those. Equally, the "villagey" type areas in many cities/suburbs are often the most popular and  expensive. That said, it doesn't suit everyone and won't work everywhere. Naturally though, the hard of thinking types in local authoritiies will see this kind of thing as the answer to everything, and feel it makes them look as though they're doing something. The end result is that there'll be some poor implementation, some good, and some will get scrapped; pretty much the way local councils deal with other stuff, like parking and bus lanes. Most likely things will get implemented badly, but that wlll be largely down to incompetence rather than an evil plot.

There are some valid arguments against 15 minutes cities, as well as against other measures taken in the name of climate change or local pollution, where people might agree with you. However, ridiculous claims of genocide and population control aren't amongst them, and only serve to bounce the discussion into loon territory.

If I was a conspiracy theorist, I'd say that you were secretly pro vaccination and 15 minute cities, and were trying (quite successfully) to make the arguments against them look ridiculous   😉 🙂

[LenT]

50 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

My personal opinion regarding the unfortunate deaths which were attributed to covid is this. Those who died of covid did Not die of covid itself. Those unfortunate souls had underlying issues which would eventually have killed them. Covid just triggered something in those underlying issues and worked its evil magic on them causing death. The news reports of those deaths were sketchy at best. Bordering on false news broadcasting. 

I'd agree.  By their very nature, the elderly residents of Care Homes tend to be vulnerable to respiratory infections such as pneumonia - which is normally the more commonly cited cause.  During the pandemic, GPs who certify Care Homes were, as I recall,  advised that it was acceptable to initially name Covid-19 as the cause if it was actually present - but on the basis that later tests would confirm it or otherwise.

59 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

As for whether an earthquake took place or not. Geeeeez. It goes to show even the most educationally qualified folk can be as thick as dog pooh.

If you're referring to the San Francisco fire of 1906 then, sadly, this event is all too true. It rates as probably the worst natural disaster in American history.  It was caused by the earthquake resulting from the slippage of two tectonic plates at the San Andreas Fault.  There was another, lesser, earthquake at the same site in 1957.  The US Geological Survey has predicted that another tectonic slippage event similar to that of 1906 could occur within the next twenty years.

Something to bear in mind if you're offered any cheap real estate!

[toffee_pie]

This is where your council tax is going.. more

On 4/7/2023 at 11:37 AM, LenT said:

I'd agree.  By their very nature, the elderly residents of Care Homes tend to be vulnerable to respiratory infections such as pneumonia - which is normally the more commonly cited cause.  During the pandemic, GPs who certify Care Homes were, as I recall,  advised that it was acceptable to initially name Covid-19 as the cause if it was actually present - but on the basis that later tests would confirm it or otherwise.

If you're referring to the San Francisco fire of 1906 then, sadly, this event is all too true. It rates as probably the worst natural disaster in American history.  It was caused by the earthquake resulting from the slippage of two tectonic plates at the San Andreas Fault.  There was another, lesser, earthquake at the same site in 1957.  The US Geological Survey has predicted that another tectonic slippage event similar to that of 1906 could occur within the next twenty years.

Something to bear in mind if you're offered any cheap real estate!

But why does the UK need an alert system? No earthquake, Tsunamis or hurricane to deal with.. not that I'm aware anyway.

Unless it's to do with.. 

Vaccines for CANCER and heart disease will be ready by 2030, Moderna chief says

The WHO have taken over the medical field in the West, with freedom to call pandemics when and where they like.. not a conspiracy before you get your keys ready before we know that you have an answer for everything.

And btw, aggressive cancers have increased since covid jabs were rolled out.. 

I see some people on forums saying EVs have LFP cells which have no cobalt, surely a good thing for the environment right? Not really since they have a lower operation voltage so need far more cells to make that thing get a decent range, considering a NCA type pack is half a tonne or so you are looking at 600/800kg of batteries with this new eco friendly Battery, no cobalt but plenty other harmful minerals used, ridiculous to think that EVs are good for the environment but the science are all too convincing.

And this is more controlling bs.

'The stuff of nightmares!': 'Creepy' child-shape bollards designed to alert drivers to school crossing are branded 'terrifying' and have turned village into 'an 80s horror film'

Which is what council tax is doing now, that and cycle lanes, cameras, CAZ, ULEZ and LTN skulduggery.

[toffee_pie]

On 4/7/2023 at 11:26 AM, Bluemarlin said:

If I was a conspiracy theorist, I'd say that you were secretly pro vaccination and 15 minute cities, and were trying (quite successfully) to make the arguments against them look ridiculous   😉

But did you and LenT even ask the most basic of question, how many have actually died from vaccines, do you wonder about the silence post vaccination rollout on the deaths? I'd expect excess deaths to decrease after a mass vaccination program not go up and per my previous comment aggressive cancers have gone off the scale since jabs were administered over a disease with a 99.9 percent survival rate. But the jabs did all you travel to Spain and have a sun tan.

In a world free of corruption medical exec's and politicians would be locked up long ago, and to think Boris Becker got jailed for tax fraud says as much as you need to know about the world we live in.

A word of nefarious skulduggery.

But you and LenT have an answer for everything - it's a common trend amongst the conspiracy theory brigade.

 

 

 

 

[Bluemarlin]

18 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

But did you and LenT even ask the most basic of question, how many have actually died from vaccines, do you wonder about the silence post vaccination rollout on the deaths? I'd expect excess deaths to decrease after a mass vaccination program not go up and per my previous comment aggressive cancers have gone off the scale since jabs were administered over a disease with a 99.9 percent survival rate. But the jabs did all you travel to Spain and have a sun tan.

In a world free of corruption medical exec's and politicians would be locked up long ago, and to think Boris Becker got jailed for tax fraud says as much as you need to know about the world we live in.

A word of nefarious skulduggery.

But you and LenT have an answer for everything - it's a common trend amongst the conspiracy theory brigade.

 

 

 

 

Yes Eric, I do ask the questions. Every time you post an unsubstantiated claim I look it up, and each time it turns out to be someone either cherry picking data, or taking it out of context, making an assumption about it, and presenting it as fact. If I'm honest, I get the impression that you don't ask any questions, and simply listen to the sources that tell you what you want to believe, and then do nothing to try and verify their claims, as most of them are very easily debunked.

Take your excess deaths claim, for example. Even the guy who made the claim acknowledged that there's no proof that links Covid vaccines to excess deaths. Instead, he cherry picked data from two months to make an assumption, and yet ignored all the other months that didn't support his assumption, and even had a negative correlation. Most of these claims follow the same pattern of taking a small sample that supports a claim, and then falsely equating correlation to causation, without any proof, whilst ignoring all the evidence to the contrary.

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/data-doesnt-show-that-vaccines-are-responsible-for-2022-excess-mortality-contrary-to-alex-berensons-claim/

I'll go back to what I said before. There may be some truth to the things you believe about Covid, EVs, and local authority traffic policies, which many people might share with you, but only at the factual level. However, once you go down the rabbit hole of government LED genocide, and nefarious schemes to control the masses, then people switch off.

Perhaps it's my lack of education, or maybe there's a special kind of logic, reserved for engineers and PhDs. A kind of quantum logic, if you will, where the normal rules of logic don't apply, as your claims make no logical sense.

Take government conspiracies to commit mass murder and control people. During covid, we had a government LED by a guy who could barely keep track of how many kids he has, and ministers blundering into mistake after mistake, and yet we're asked to believe that they're somehow evil genuises, capable of complex, secret plots.

What about those plots, like controlling the media? Imagine I was an evil genius. One would have to assume I'd be reasonably intelligent. That being the case, I'd be well aware that it would be impossible to control the entire world's media, and get them to dance to my tune. However, as a genius, I'd be acutely aware that in a modern, connected society, it would be far easier to spread doubt and mistrust in the media, than try to control it. The same goes for the world's scientists. Why would I engage in the futile endeavour of getting them all onboard with my evil schemes, when I can just sew the seeds of doubt in science, and watch the paranoid and suspicious spread them. It's the conspiracy theorists doing this, who seem to have the agenda, either to make money, boost their ego's, or they simply want to believe that the world's against them.

A more logical conclusion would be that we have a mixture of some inept and some corrupt politicians, who are driven in sometimes well meaning but misguided ways, and sometimes for personal gain. We have a media that's largely populatued by people who want to find the truth. Sure, sometimes they might be LED by their own views, and sometimes they might act on inaccurate data, but they have competitors and colleagues to call them out, and either verify or refute any claims, or present counter arguments. And we have a scientific community that's driven by the desire for knowledge. One that employs a model of presenting claims and theories to their peers, specifically so that they can fact check them and pick holes in it. Of course they'll make mistakes, that's the very nature of new discovery; but the process is to identify them as quickly as possible, and either refine them, or discard them and start again.

So, the whole process of politics, media and science can't possibly be perfect. The best we can hope for is to refine the systems sufficiently that we can identify when we're on the wrong path, and change direction. That lack of perfection though comes from lack of knowledge, and so is to be expected, and not a reason to assume it proves some kind of deliberate and hidden agenda every time something doesn't work out well.

We can take any occurence, or set of data, and retrofit an explanation, based on our own personal views and prejudices. That doesn't meaan that we should though, at least not without proof; otherwise we'll go back to believing that our crops failed because we didn't sacrifice enough virgins to the sun.

[Rabbers]

I have the uneasy feeling that this thread might be hurtling unchecked towards the same fate as its “Conspiracy Theories” predecessor. So, before it’s too late, I would suggest it be re-started under a new name by one or another of its more ardent devotees. 

[LenT]

49 minutes ago, Rabbers said:

I have the uneasy feeling that this thread might be hurtling unchecked towards the same fate as its “Conspiracy Theories” predecessor. So, before it’s too late, I would suggest it be re-started under a new name by one or another of its more ardent devotees. 

You’re suggesting that a thread you started to discuss the disappearance of a thread that discussed conspiracies might suddenly disappear as a result of a discussion involving conspiracies?

Does it involve Bill Gates in any way?

[Rabbers]

7 minutes ago, LenT said:

You’re suggesting that a thread you started to discuss the disappearance of a thread that discussed conspiracies might suddenly disappear as a result of a discussion involving conspiracies?

Does it involve Bill Gates in any way?

Yes to the first question.  Maybe or maybe not to the second.

[Malc1]

Prof Gill Bates Professor of Molecular Neuroscience Neurodegenerative Diseases UCL Queen Square Institute of Neurology Research summary Huntington’s disease is an inherited  .....

some sort of Conspiracy Theory maybe  ???   🤣

Lighten up you lot .....  just accept that lots of indifferent people have indifferent theories about all sorts of rubbish and nay ! ............  not just BG but maybe GB too eh !

Malc

[Mr Vlad]

WOW Bill. Quite possibly the best post I've read on any forum. Concise. Accurate. Passionate. Well done sir. I doff my cap to you.

What you said Malc is Bang on.

And Renato. lol maybe you started another contentious thread accidentally by asking what happened to my thread regards conspiracies. 

Isn't life great 🤣

[toffee_pie]

The BOE are ramping up the move to a digital currency, it's uncanny that everything that tin foil hat people said is actually, like happening.

LenT and his buddies will no doubt say that hey everyone uses digital now, when did you last use a ATM machine, the same way they are saying well 15 minutes is plenty to commute past your door step.