Last check before buy.

[TheSalmon]

Hi,

New in this amazing forum and started my membership by posting in the wrong section.

I am in for my first Lexus, after ownning Cupra (2019), BMW 530 (2017) AND Volvo v60 D5 (2014). My cars have always been under warrant, so basically low milage and pretty new.

 

The car in question is a Lexus GS450h 2013 (12"3 inch audio system, leather seats etc) with 80778 miles on the clock. The car is being sold by a Lexus dealer without the SELECT guarantee since the car is over 10 years old. It has been serviced regularly at Lexus exclusively.

It was listed for 17800£ but i managed to get it down to 15400£. Is that price fair for a 11 year old GS450H? There is not many on the market here since Lexus is not the popular choice here in Sweden.

 

Since i'll be spending a decent amount of money, i want to tap into your knowledge and advice. Anything i should ask for? The car has one previous owner. How is the depreciation? When i use tools to value the car it says between 12.900£ - 13.700£ but i guess the short supply plays in.

 

I will or will not by the car depending on the advice i receive here.

 

Thank you!

[Steven Lockey]

The above tag price is probably the "dealer tax".

I'd carefully check some things before purchase.

1> Its under 15 years so check its had its hybrid checks and the hybrid system is under warranty.
Remember to get this renewed every year and you've got some peace of mind over the hybrid system.

2>  Shocks - Its a heavy car and the shocks tend to go. Check they are solid.

3> Exhaust - The pipes seem a bit vulnerable to corrosion 

If those are good the 450h is a very reliable car so you shouldn't have many worries.

[bigglesfllesundone]

The f-sport/premier version in the Uk have the 12.3 inch screen, they also have larger front disc brakes, these list at £875 for the disc and pads, it would be wise to check the front brakes for wear.

[TheSalmon]

22 hours ago, bigglesfllesundone said:

The f-sport/premier version in the Uk have the 12.3 inch screen, they also have larger front disc brakes, these list at £875 for the disc and pads, it would be wise to check the front brakes for wear.

Thanks for the answers.

I have talked to the dealer and apparently, we dont have the 15-year hybrid check-warranty in Sweden. I got a bit worked up and asked "why is Sweden always the exception"? Got no answer.

 

He offered me a warranty of 6 months/3000 miles which made me suspicious. The car has been sitting at the Lexus dealer for 4 months and i fear that could have had an impact on the Battery.

 

Well, i dont know if i am ever going to buy a Lexus. I've been a Honda guy, and they are easily repaired with low prices and cheap service and they also go on and on and on. I dont want to get stuck with a 4000£ hybrid change on a 11 year old car. The hybrid system really scares me. Feels like everything that can go wrong will be extremely expensive since it is a hybrid. 

 

I also dont have especially long drives to work so i am worried about the effect it could have on the Battery aswell. For my understanding, it needs to be driven quite a bit to keep it in shape.

 

There are only 3 GS450 2012 on sale in the entire country, so i suspect that many share my viewpoints.

On the flipside, during the test drive of gs300 and IS, they were by far the best cars i have driven, so the "i want" in my might be stronger than my current needs..

The car is mine when if i want in for 15400£. I really need to think about this.

 

 

[Anevb]

It would be good to hear your opinion on 530 vs GS450h (if you buy the GS). I bought my GS a year ago and the dilemma was between the GS and 530 (the F10 gen. 2013-2015).

My GS is on 104k miles now and haven't had any issues for the 1 year of ownership. As mentioned, the brakes and shocks of Premier and F Sport models are expensive but the car in general is very reliable. The F Sport also has rear wheel steering and this is very costly to repair/replace (I can't say if this is a common issue or not).

It's unfortunate that you can't get the 15-year Battery warranty in Sweden.

[DavidCM]

3 hours ago, TheSalmon said:

Thanks for the answers.

I have talked to the dealer and apparently, we dont have the 15-year hybrid check-warranty in Sweden. I got a bit worked up and asked "why is Sweden always the exception"? Got no answer.

 

 

 

 

Perhaps Sweden is the exception because of the lower temperatures.It is well known that this has an impact on Battery life/capacity.

You would think that Lexus/Toyota would design their hybrid systems to cope with colder climates.After all,they sell in North America/Canada etc where it is at least as cold as Sweden.

[wendle]

14 hours ago, TheSalmon said:

 

 

I also dont have especially long drives to work so i am worried about the effect it could have on the battery aswell. For my understanding, it needs to be driven quite a bit to keep it in shape.

 

 

 

I had a MK3,GS 450h & MK4,GS450h f sport, i only do 4 miles each way to work and around 3k miles a year. i only had a problem once when the engine would not stop running, even when stationary, i took it to the dealership and they told me to do a 25mile run down the motorway, i never had any more problems. I loved the 450h, one of the best cars i have ever owned.

 

[TheSalmon]

17 hours ago, DavidCM said:

Perhaps Sweden is the exception because of the lower temperatures.It is well known that this has an impact on battery life/capacity.

You would think that Lexus/Toyota would design their hybrid systems to cope with colder climates.After all,they sell in North America/Canada etc where it is at least as cold as Sweden.

The problem with Sweden is that it is always trying to be the exception. The goodie-good of the expensive of its citizens. Sweden is far from as cold as Canada. The climate is mild, even on winters these days.

 

It is a hard choice, no matter what. I will not find another GS450 for a long time. It is not premium or f-sport, just comfort with the 12"3 inch screen and 12 speakers. Am i missing something by not buying F-sport / Premier? I am not that picky.

[TheSalmon]

17 hours ago, Anevb said:

It would be good to hear your opinion on 530 vs GS450h (if you buy the GS). I bought my GS a year ago and the dilemma was between the GS and 530 (the F10 gen. 2013-2015).

My GS is on 104k miles now and haven't had any issues for the 1 year of ownership. As mentioned, the brakes and shocks of Premier and F Sport models are expensive but the car in general is very reliable. The F Sport also has rear wheel steering and this is very costly to repair/replace (I can't say if this is a common issue or not).

It's unfortunate that you can't get the 15-year battery warranty in Sweden.

I have driven 530 for about a year. I dont think it compared to the luxury feel or comfort that the Lexus has. It invites to inspired driving, has a nice enting and the interior is good, but i just feel Lexus is some ways above.

[TheSalmon]

5 hours ago, wendle said:

I had a MK3,GS 450h & MK4,GS450h f sport, i only do 4 miles each way to work and around 3k miles a year. i only had a problem once when the engine would not stop running, even when stationary, i took it to the dealership and they told me to do a 25mile run down the motorway, i never had any more problems. I loved the 450h, one of the best cars i have ever owned.

 

You dont worry about the potential cost of any expensive parts breaking down? Lexus second hand value is among the highest, so to be stuck with a big repair bill that is 1/4 of the cars value would not feel that good.

[Las Palmas]

You are in a Lexus forum. Most here value the brand above other brands.

You are Honda man. Honda make good cars. Have had 3. All good and no problems. Accord Coupé was the one I liked best.

Lexus make special cars. If you have means to buy and if needed repair and really want one, go for it. It is better to regret having done something, than regret not having tried. 

[TheSalmon]

Feel stupid now, but here is the link to the car in question:

https://www.wayke.se/objekt/25a1b2db-59f9-4c44-9abc-8a3207c5c8b4/lexus-gs-450h-comfort-345hk-automat

[serbarry]

I bought mine in December 21 with 190.000 kms from a private seller. No warranty at all, not even full service history (the last 4 services were done by an independent garage). I have not spent anything until now but I now have to replace the rear shock absorbers (1,200 euros at the Lexus dealer); I have already paid 60 euros last week for the wheels alignment and tracking (apparently they were really bad); I am going to pay 150 euros next week to fix 2 leaks in the exhaust system. Fortunately the hybrid Battery is good as it passed the hybrid health check 2 weeks ago at the last service. Is the warranty given on used cars only 6 months in Sweden legally or that particular dealer offers only 6 months?

[RadicalCoupe-Fuji]

If you worry about costs & prices of repair if something breaks you should probably give it a miss, its never good to stretch yourself financially. The cold climate you live in makes a hybrid less appealing in the first place.

[johnatg]

It looks nice. Hard to tell from a photo, but it's a Lexus and most of us here have no doubts that it's one of the best car brands out there. Parts are expensive but you don't need many of them - I've had my car for over three years and have only needed brake pads and tyres. BMWs are great to drive but likely you'd need more parts and they are just as expensive as Lexus. BMWs are complex beasts these days and have a poor reliability rating. I wouldn't worry about cold temperatures - it won't make much difference to a GS450h - the hybrid bit on our cars is more like a F1 car - gives extra boost on acceleration, but the Battery is so small (relatively) the car doesn't really drive in EV mode . The hybrid (EV) range is nearly nothing.

Of course, the traction Battery dramatically helps fuel consumption by storing engine and braking derived energy and feeding it back when the engine would otherwise be working hard. But temperature isn't a problem when driving - in fact the challenge is to keep the Battery cool. 'Car Care Nut' says the filters on the Battery cooling ducts are the most important filters on the car. And they are very inaccessible on a GS, but not really anything to worry about on a private car - more so on a taxi or when approaching very high mileages.

Who knew that the unit of distance in Sweden is a 'mil' - = 10Km or 6.2 miles!

[Las Palmas]

Sweet looking car. Understand why you want it.

Warranty is no longer, as what they say is that it is warranted till 200.000km or 10 years. There is still almost 70.000km left, but the 10 years passed last year so no extra fine warranty.

Like John said the hybrid Battery help fuel consume unless you drive a lot in mountains. Uphill gasoline engine is what is used, and downhill, after a few minutes’ hybrid Battery is full and will no longer have room to put more power in it, no matter how much longer you drive down. Our CT driven here on the mountain island use more than 6½L/100km pretty far from what Lexus inform (3.8L/100km).

When you start a hybrid, gasoline engine will run till engine is warm and in very cold weather it will be longer time than here where we live.

Positive and negative.

Only you can decide.

[TheSalmon]

8 hours ago, serbarry said:

I bought mine in December 21 with 190.000 kms from a private seller. No warranty at all, not even full service history (the last 4 services were done by an independent garage). I have not spent anything until now but I now have to replace the rear shock absorbers (1,200 euros at the Lexus dealer); I have already paid 60 euros last week for the wheels alignment and tracking (apparently they were really bad); I am going to pay 150 euros next week to fix 2 leaks in the exhaust system. Fortunately the hybrid battery is good as it passed the hybrid health check 2 weeks ago at the last service. Is the warranty given on used cars only 6 months in Sweden legally or that particular dealer offers only 6 months?

In Sweden, we have MRB-warranty. That warranty only applies to dealers who have decided to join MRB. If a retailer sells a car and the car breaks down in sometime during those six months, the dealer has to fix the issue, free of charge. If not, they are put on "The black list" for everyone to see, with a torn reputation and less business as a result. Many retailers dont have MRB, but the serious one do.

There is also "konsument-köplagen" which is basically the same thing, but that applies more to the seller to do all the work of convincing the retailer to adress any issues. MRF is basically the buyers friend, and when a retailer signs with them, they are basically saying "we promise to fix any issues occurring under these miles or time period, or suffer the consequences".

Thats ballsy, to buy a exemplar like that. The one i am interested in has only had 1 owner, and had always been served by Lexus, and is sold by Lexus.

[TheSalmon]

6 hours ago, RadicalCoupe-Fuji said:

If you worry about costs & prices of repair if something breaks you should probably give it a miss, its never good to stretch yourself financially. The cold climate you live in makes a hybrid less appealing in the first place.

It is not that i could not afford to buy a new Battery for 3k if it was needed. It would just feel stupid and make me ****** off. On the plus side, the car is 11 years old, so i dont have to serve it at Lexus after purchase, since no guarantees or benefits apply, just a hefty bill. All cars can brake, but this is a golden opportunity, since there are very few GS450 in Sweden. The Lexus dealer who sells it says that the Battery should be a no-worry since most Lexus drive hundreds of thousands of miles without any issues.

[TheSalmon]

6 hours ago, johnatg said:

It looks nice. Hard to tell from a photo, but it's a Lexus and most of us here have no doubts that it's one of the best car brands out there. Parts are expensive but you don't need many of them - I've had my car for over three years and have only needed brake pads and tyres. BMWs are great to drive but likely you'd need more parts and they are just as expensive as Lexus. BMWs are complex beasts these days and have a poor reliability rating. I wouldn't worry about cold temperatures - it won't make much difference to a GS450h - the hybrid bit on our cars is more like a F1 car - gives extra boost on acceleration, but the battery is so small (relatively) the car doesn't really drive in EV mode . The hybrid (EV) range is nearly nothing.

Of course, the traction battery dramatically helps fuel consumption by storing engine and braking derived energy and feeding it back when the engine would otherwise be working hard. But temperature isn't a problem when driving - in fact the challenge is to keep the battery cool. 'Car Care Nut' says the filters on the battery cooling ducts are the most important filters on the car. And they are very inaccessible on a GS, but not really anything to worry about on a private car - more so on a taxi or when approaching very high mileages.

Who knew that the unit of distance in Sweden is a 'mil' - = 10Km or 6.2 miles!

Thank you for that response! Yeah, i know BMW have trouble written all over them - i can attest to that! This car is basically way over my needs as a daily driver, it is more a golden opportunity and "i want" that is ruling me at the moment. The Honda i have now, a 2017 sport is sweet, but the audio is weak and the comfort is non-existent. My butt and back becomes numb within the hour, and suspension does not exist since it is the sport version. Had it for 4 years and no issues and cheap service. Hard to decide if i want to splash out 15+ k on a car that is 4 years older though.. i have basically read everything there is about Lexus (the GS especially), the Battery and quality. There are some GS300 on the market at the moment, none of them are equipped with anything basically, not even leather seats. 

 

Same story with all the IS. We dont have IS350 here, just the 300, and the ones on the market are comfort, special edition and sport. Most of them are 2015's though, so i might be inclined to go that route, to obtain warranty and more peace of mind.. a 2015 IS300 goes for the same price as the GS450 at the moment. Feels like i am stepping down on what i want, which is audio (all of the IS on market have 6 speakers only) and only one have leather seats.

 

There are a couple of IS250, one back f-sport with a sunroof, 6 speakers, half leather etc with questionable owner history, not sold by Lexus for 14600£.. i am not sure about the warranty on that one.

 

Wall of text, but i might have to reasses if i should to gung-ho for the GS450 or be more sensible and buy a newer IS350.

[TheSalmon]

4 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

Sweet looking car. Understand why you want it.

Warranty is no longer, as what they say is that it is warranted till 200.000km or 10 years. There is still almost 70.000km left, but the 10 years passed last year so no extra fine warranty.

Like John said the hybrid battery help fuel consume unless you drive a lot in mountains. Uphill gasoline engine is what is used, and downhill, after a few minutes’ hybrid battery is full and will no longer have room to put more power in it, no matter how much longer you drive down. Our CT driven here on the mountain island use more than 6½L/100km pretty far from what Lexus inform (3.8L/100km).

When you start a hybrid, gasoline engine will run till engine is warm and in very cold weather it will be longer time than here where we live.

Positive and negative.

Only you can decide.

Yeah its a tough choice. My Honda pulls 8.3/100, costs about 45£ month in insurance. The Lexus GS450 would cost 70£ to insure.. well..we shall see.

[serbarry]

If you really want it and wait too long it might be gone soon and you will regret it 😜. Between a GS450H with 6 months warranty and a IS300H with a longer warranty, I would always choose the GS without blinking my eyes. Better audio system, more powerful, rear wheel drive, etc. If it is sold by a Lexus dealer with one owner from new and full service history you must be very unlucky that something goes wrong. Anyway if the Battery is faulty you would find out within 6 months from the purchase. In your place I would have already bought it if I was so in love with it, but I am the kind of person who takes some risks in life and indeed I bought a 14 year-old GS450H without any warranty and only with a visual check and a few kms drive, and I am not a mechanic. I was just lucky.

[TheSalmon]

23 hours ago, serbarry said:

If you really want it and wait too long it might be gone soon and you will regret it 😜. Between a GS450H with 6 months warranty and a IS300H with a longer warranty, I would always choose the GS without blinking my eyes. Better audio system, more powerful, rear wheel drive, etc. If it is sold by a Lexus dealer with one owner from new and full service history you must be very unlucky that something goes wrong. Anyway if the battery is faulty you would find out within 6 months from the purchase. In your place I would have already bought it if I was so in love with it, but I am the kind of person who takes some risks in life and indeed I bought a 14 year-old GS450H without any warranty and only with a visual check and a few kms drive, and I am not a mechanic. I was just lucky.

Thanks for the response. I will probably buy the GS450 this weekend. I will return with pics!

[TheSalmon]

21 hours ago, TheSalmon said:

Thanks for the response. I will probably buy the GS450 this weekend. I will return with pics!

Pretty insane. Been talking to different dealers from Lexus and they assure me that the value wont go down drastically. They apparently hold their value really well. Another GS450 appeared on the market today with 135.000 miles and was for sale at the price of 14100£!  Same model year but 55k miles more. I can get "mine" for 15400£. That price is good, no? Will go to Stockholm and pickup the car on Saturday.

[DavidCM]

You won't regret it Thimmy.

Bought mine just over a year ago and I am still very pleased with it.They are really relaxing cars to drive(and own).

[TheSalmon]

Silly question maybe, but..the dealer says the car has leather seats, and on car.info, it says so aswell. Judging from the pictures though, it looks to be half-leather and then cloth with holes. Are my eyes deceiving me?