Fog lights or no fog lights?

[zoricib]

Pet peeve of mine but what to see what the general consensus is.

Anyone bothered by those who use fog lights - front or rear - when it rains, and there is no fog? I find that the front fogs reflect on the wet road and blind anyone driving in the other direction and the rear fog reflects on the wet windshield when driving behind and again impairs your vision. 

Only use I find suitable when it rains is when it pours so hard the lights actually make your car more visible.

 

[Mincey]

There's probably only an hour every year when fog lights are necessary. Trouble is, most idiots leave them switched on for about six weeks or longer afterwards. Oh and front fog lights are a bit Colin McRae innit? Thank God most manufacturers now make them reset with the ignition, so everyone knows you're a weapons grade idiot if you "forget" to turn them off.

[NemesisUK]

Can't say it bothers me much and it definitely doesn't adversely affect my vision.

On my Mercedes cars the rear fogs go off if the car goes above 30mph perhaps more marques should follow suit?

 

[Sundance]

I don't think it's inconsiderate to use front fogs in conditions of 'reduced' as opposed to 'seriously reduced' visibility. But then each driver's judgement of the difference can be somewhat irritating as the matter is purely subjective.

I often use my front 'fogs' in dusky half-light conditions out of courtesy to other road users, a time when something stronger than sidelights is appropriate but dipped headlights are too much.

I can't remember the last time I used my rear 'high densities' but am comforted to know that I have them. And by them I mean two, I've never understood why some (perhaps even older!) vehicles have only one fitted which I find very off-putting even when positioned centrally.

As for those budding Colin McRaes, ah yes, those were the days, but I was more of a Paddy Hopkirk admirer ...

[Mr Vlad]

It's actually an offence to use either front or rear 'fog' lights when it's not foggy. As for rainy conditions geeeeez those pea brains who turn on their rears causing a dazzling effect and distorting somewhat the vision of the driver following. Front 'fogs' because they're so low don't 'offend' unless some burk puts more powerful bulbs in.

Overall its a pet hate of mine also Bogdan. 

So rear 'fogs' go off when Mercedes cars go above 30 mph eh Peter? Personally I find that stupid and irresponsible. I've driven in fog numerous times and on the motorway faster than 30 mph as have 90% of other vehicles. 

[Mincey]

It was semi foggy this morning on my way to a client site. Some drivers had no lights on at all. I had mine on (front and rear) but no fog lights. It got a little foggier and the van in front put his lights on, then his rear fog light, but turned it off again straight away. Good chap, I thought. You clearly looked in your mirror, saw me and thought "yes, I can see the car behind, I don't need to fry his retinas with my fog lights, and potentially cause him to run into the back of me because he can't make out my brake lights due to the glare". Five minutes later they went on and stayed on. Even when the fog cleared they were still on. Had I been a Rozzer, I'd have given him a tug.

[Sundance]

1 hour ago, Mr Vlad said:

It's actually an offence to use either front or rear 'fog' lights when it's not foggy. As for rainy conditions geeeeez those pea brains who turn on their rears causing a dazzling effect and distorting somewhat the vision of the driver following. Front 'fogs' because they're so low don't 'offend' unless some burk puts more powerful bulbs in.

Overall its a pet hate of mine also Bogdan. 

So rear 'fogs' go off when Mercedes cars go above 30 mph eh Peter? Personally I find that stupid and irresponsible. I've driven in fog numerous times and on the motorway faster than 30 mph as have 90% of other vehicles. 

You're correct about it being an offence although the actual legal wording is that fog lights are not to be used "at any time other than seriously reduced visibility" which is why in my earlier post I commented on subjectivity 🙂 .

Otherwise I totally agree ... and as for the daft Mercedes "fogs off at 30" ruling, what are they thinking? Makes absolutely no sense to me either 😮.

[zoricib]

Great to see there's some agreement here 🙂  Not against fog lights being used when visibility is seriously reduced, but for the typical rain I find the use a bit excessive. And as you say @Mincey, some drivers go the the other extreme with no lights at all. 

[Bluemarlin]

Doesn't bother me personally,  although I only ever use my fog lights when there's fog.

What does bother me though is people who put on all their lights in rain or poor visibility and think that then enables them to drive faster than the conditions allow.

[VFR]

I never put my lights on as the DRL’s are on all the time as are my dash lights.

Now those idiots who keep flashing me from behind should stop as I find it dazzling at 1 o/clock in the morning as I can see where I am going.

 

 

Lets be thankful for the above I have written as that is the norm nowadays where a few years back it was rear fogs on “all winter” regardless and never turned off even if you tried to fry them with a brace or two of Cibie’s from behind. 

 

In this day & age I simply ignore as the world becomes more ignorant (IMO)

[Spock66]

I bought a car once and there was a little green light symbol on the dashboard when I switched on the headlights, I assumed this was an indication for the headlights being on, took a few months to find out it was actually for the front fog lights 🙂

[VFR]

46 minutes ago, Spock66 said:

I bought a car once and there was a little green light symbol on the dashboard when I switched on the headlights, I assumed this was an indication for the headlights being on, took a few months to find out it was actually for the front fog lights 🙂

Yes a good point & I was about to edit my post above saying about those silly little warning lights that are fitted to a lot of vehicles “especially” for the rear fog hazard lights.

[NemesisUK]

5 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

So rear 'fogs' go off when Mercedes cars go above 30 mph eh Peter? Personally I find that stupid and irresponsible. I've driven in fog numerous times and on the motorway faster than 30 mph as have 90% of other vehicles. 

 

4 hours ago, Sundance said:

Otherwise I totally agree ... and as for the daft Mercedes "fogs off at 30" ruling, what are they thinking? Makes absolutely no sense to me either 😮.

From the Mercedes WIS (Workshop Information System) document regarding operation of the rear fog lamps.. (This was for vehicles manufactured in the first part of 2005, obviously the regs may have changed)

"The rear SAM control module with fuse and relay module 
(N10/2) evaluates the signal pending in the CAN interior from 
the instrument cluster (A1) for the instantaneous ground
speed and actuates the fog lamp (E4e5) as the ground speed 
< 60 km/h.

In accordance with the German vehicle licensing regulations 
the operation of rear fog lamps in the Federal Republic of 
Germany is only permitted in fog, rain or snowfall with 
visibility of less than 50 m and with accordingly reduced 
vehicle speed. The ground speed dependent actuation
serves to protect against any unintentional operation, if the 
driver e.g. after the poor visibility has improved increases speed, 
without switching off the rear fog lamps."

[Linas.P]

I generally hate when drivers don't follow basics like having right lights on or off at the right times. So I would not say specifically fog lights that bothers me, but any wrong lights - running without lights in dark, not indicating, bulbs that are blown and doesn't work etc. I guess I am just passionate about driving and if somebody can't make sure they have basics right, then I do not trust them to know more complex things like signs, or who have what priority where and having wrong lights on is just exposes people who probably shouldn't have license and be on the road.

2 hours ago, VFR said:

I never put my lights on as the DRL’s are on all the time as are my dash lights.

Now those idiots who keep flashing me from behind should stop as I find it dazzling at 1 o/clock in the morning as I can see where I am going.

Sorry if I misunderstood, but are you saying you driving with DLR at 1AM?

35 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

 

From the Mercedes WIS (Workshop Information System) document regarding operation of the rear fog lamps.. (This was for vehicles manufactured in the first part of 2005, obviously the regs may have changed)

"The rear SAM control module with fuse and relay module 
(N10/2) evaluates the signal pending in the CAN interior from 
the instrument cluster (A1) for the instantaneous ground
speed and actuates the fog lamp (E4e5) as the ground speed 
< 60 km/h.

In accordance with the German vehicle licensing regulations 
the operation of rear fog lamps in the Federal Republic of 
Germany is only permitted in fog, rain or snowfall with 
visibility of less than 50 m and with accordingly reduced 
vehicle speed. The ground speed dependent actuation
serves to protect against any unintentional operation, if the 
driver e.g. after the poor visibility has improved increases speed, 
without switching off the rear fog lamps."

So it is 40MPH... and despite seeing some logic in this I still not convinced this is good solution or at least right cut-off speed e.g. I can see myself driving at speeds above 40MPH in fog on motorway. So basically I do not see direct link between the speed I am traveling at and fog lights being on. The fog lights being on or off depends on the visibility and speed depends on what I consider to be safe speed to drive... which could easily be 60MPH (I don't consider that as very high speed). 

Let's say circumstances are - I am driving at 70MPH in light fog, I enter heavier fog and turn on fog-lights, maybe slow down to 60MPH... the car behind me does the same thing and follows me at 60MPH... then suddenly I catch-up car doing 45MPH and slow down, but because my car decided that I don't need fog lights at above 40MPH the car behind me cannot see me in the fog and rear-ends me... I am not very sure I am very happy that car decides to turn off fog lights despite I decided that circumstances requires for them to be on. Seems like usual case that manufacturer by trying to help stupid hurts the rest... instead of trusting the driver to know what lights they need when we are now babysitting people from themselves and then everyone loses. I guess if cut-off would be 60MPH, then it would be hard to argue with it... I cannot see myself (or any reasonable driver) driving at 60MPH+ with visibility of less than 50m. Although I guess, those speeds are debatable... as I am somebody could argue that 40MPH is too much as well in that sort of visibility as they simply not comfortable with themselves driving. 2s rule would suggest one should not exceed 56MPH, so 40MPH switch off feels a bit low. 

[RadicalCoupe-Fuji]

If you can see more than a few car lengths ahead you dont need the rear fog light on. There was fog today but you could still see 100 meters or more up the road yet I had to drive behind cars with their annoying rear fog lights on. 

[Mr_Groundhog]

Am I right in thinking the Is300 post-facelift does not have front fog lights where the pre-facelift had them?

[Linas.P]

37 minutes ago, Mr_Groundhog said:

Am I right in thinking the Is300 post-facelift does not have front fog lights where the pre-facelift had them?

Legal requirement in UK, so definitely has fog lights, I assume they are just integrated into the main cluster.

50 minutes ago, RadicalCoupe-Fuji said:

If you can see more than a few car lengths ahead you dont need the rear fog light on. There was fog today but you could still see 100 meters or more up the road yet I had to drive behind cars with their annoying rear fog lights on. 

Is that the case of not keeping the distance? Surely you not driving 2 car lengths behind the car in a fog at 70MPH? Although some people are way to sensitive and have them on even when there is barely any fog or as others said... just in damn rain, which makes visibility worse and not better.

[RadicalCoupe-Fuji]

this was in a 40 zone where no one ever goes 40, so 35mph.

[Mincey]

This thread has reminded me of an episode from my past. I was going to see a client with my boss. At the time, I had a humble 1.2 Vauxhall Nova (the "Antibes" edition - so it wasn't anything hum-drum) but he had an Alfa 164. He decided he would drive. His Alfa was a meagre 2 litre one, not an exciting 3 litre model, but having never been in an Alfa before, I was excited. On the way back, a fog started to come down. "Nobody is going to run into the back of me!" my boss said as a finger on his left hand hit the front fog light and another hit the rear fog light button. I had to stifle a chuckle when he simultaneously removed his fingers and the button for the rear fog light pinged off somewhere in the driver's footwell. 

[NemesisUK]

1 hour ago, Mr_Groundhog said:

Am I right in thinking the Is300 post-facelift does not have front fog lights where the pre-facelift had them?

 

47 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Legal requirement in UK, so definitely has fog lights, I assume they are just integrated into the main cluster.

There is no legal requirement for front fog lights only for the rear

[Mincey]

1 hour ago, Mr_Groundhog said:

Am I right in thinking the Is300 post-facelift does not have front fog lights where the pre-facelift had them?

Yes.

[VFR]

BTW my post was tongue in cheek.    😉

[Mr_Groundhog]

1 hour ago, Mincey said:

Yes.

Damn.... you do get front fog lights in a ford fiesta these days

[J Henderson]

I'll sometimes use my front fogs when it isn't foggy if visibility is very poor. Like, on country roads in dark, stormy weather where standing water, tree branches etc are a hazard. This is at night of course.

In actual fog, it has to be pretty thick before I feel the need to switch them on.

I do most of my driving at night, or in the dark, so I'm acutely aware of light-related issues or behaviour by other road users. Someone having front fogs on in OK weather is pretty low on the list.

I would sooner face that than an idiot with an aftermarket HID kit inside reflector headlights.

[Mincey]

43 minutes ago, Mr_Groundhog said:

Damn.... you do get front fog lights in a ford fiesta these days

Do you really need front fog lights? My IS300h had the 3 LED option. I can't remember driving it in fog, but Betsy has a similar setup with no fog lights and we've never had any issues.

IS300h:

Betsy: