Attempted Theft of my RX450h 2020

[steve2006]

Perhaps on your next dealership visit you could show some ‘genuine” interest in purchasing a new RX 450h ending the conversation with “ Have you sorted out the theft problem with this model yet?”

 

[Bluemarlin]

With all the communications technology in cars these days, I can see the day when two factor authentication and a text confirmation is needed to start a car.

[Sybaris]

How do you know someone is reputable at fitting a scorpion x series to the RX?

Do Lexus fit these though I would imagine they charge more to do it.

 

Thanks

[PDM]

On 3/13/2023 at 12:05 PM, 08ISF said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From my experience with their customer relations dept, you will simply be fobbed off with the usual platitudes. I have written today, by snail mail to their CEO  , text of the letter reproduced below and should be self explanatory:

"You may remember that I wrote to you this time last year in connection with my concerns over the provisions of the Relax warranty, and your staff answered my queries comprehensively and satisfactorily, so thank you for that.

 

I now have another matter, which is of some concern. I do not believe it appropriate to approach Lexus Customer Services directly myself as the issues require high level assurance and not the simple platitudes I have experienced from customer services staff generally. I am contacting you, as I believe you will be best placed to feed it down to the staff with the authority to deal with it.

 

Reports are becoming more numerous about thefts of 4^th generation RX450h cars and as an owner this is obviously of interest. As I understand it, the criminals gain access to the car’s CANBUS system via vulnerable wiring in the passenger front wheel arch and then use this to fool the car into thinking the key is present, allowing them to enter it and drive away. I further understand that thefts have become so prevalent that the Lexus RX450h has now entered the top ten of most stolen cars in the UK and one in sixteen RX’s in Canada were stolen last year.

 

 

 

This is obviously a security design weakness, which is being exploited and is inappropriate to an expensive quality vehicle. The effect on owners such as myself is anxiety, possible reduced values, and by the looks of it, substantially increased insurance premiums, not to mention the inconvenience of having to use additional security such as steering wheel locks. This, in a car that is full of electronic driver aids!

 

The bottom line here is what are you doing about it, and when can we expect a recall or service technical bulletin to be issued?

 

 

I am very fond of my RX but it is approaching the age when I normally change my car and in choosing a replacement I will not be willing to spend tens of thousands on something which is so easy to steal and hence difficult to insure."

 

 

I look forward to Lexus’ advice that this problem is going to be resolved shortly."

 

My last contact via this route was fruitful but it did require a formal letter rather than an email.  If he gets enough letters like this he may tell his underlings to sort it.

If anyone wishes to take the time the address for the CEO was on an earlier post.

 

I received quite a long, but largely boilerplate, response from customer relations.

Look forward to seeing if anything comes back from your snail mail.

Paul

[08ISF]

On 3/18/2023 at 12:02 PM, steve2006 said:

Perhaps on your next dealership visit you could show some ‘genuine” interest in purchasing a new RX 450h ending the conversation with “ Have you sorted out the theft problem with this model yet?”

 

This is actually a brilliant idea as there is no get out of jail answer. If they say "yes" they have obviously accepted there is a problem with the Gen 4 and you can ask them when they are going to fix it . If they say "no" then to have exactly the same deficiency on the next generation is careless to say the least, and the motoring press need to learn of it, which won't help sales of the new model which is competing with some pretty stiff competition.

[08ISF]

17 hours ago, PDM said:

I received quite a long, but largely boilerplate, response from customer relations.

Look forward to seeing if anything comes back from your snail mail.

Paul

Nothing as yet, and I would have expected at least an email acknowledgement. This might be an embarrassed silence or it might be they don't care. Either way if I don't  get a positive and non BS reply, this will be my last Lexus as a poor response indicates they have lost their way on customer service. Plenty of other fish in the sea.

Watch this space. If the reply is BS I will publish it on here so everybody can see.

[08ISF]

I now have the reply from Lexus and it is quite disappointing, although not entirely unexpected. It came via snail mail so I'm attaching a scanned redacted copy. Draw your own conclusions, but my interpretation is they are not going to do anything,lexus.pdflexus.pdf which is not what we should expect from a premium manufacturer whose USP is customer service. This is not over in my book but before I go back to them can anybody flesh out the exact details of the cabling the crims are accessing to steal the car. I'm guessing from descriptions so far that cabling to the interior of the car is run through the passenger wing behind the plastic lining and this is what they are getting at or am I wrong?

[Fsport]

They are using the wiring from the passenger side front LED lights through peeling back the front near side wheel arch lining.

 

[stepheneric]

5 hours ago, 08ISF said:

I now have the reply from Lexus and it is quite disappointing, although not entirely unexpected.

I really liked the catchall phrase "coincided with the war in Ukraine"

[katabrontes]

I wonder if the provisions of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 might apply here.

Goods have to be of merchantable quality and as described in any documents or other description published by the manufacturer or supplier.  This includes anything on a website, email, other document or a verbal description if it can be proved.

if Lexus makes claims that their cars are especially secure and protected against theft this might be grounds to support a claim.  There is no time limit for claims I don't think.

Could be worth exploring this.

[Richolf]

10 hours ago, 08ISF said:

I now have the reply from Lexus and it is quite disappointing, although not entirely unexpected. It came via snail mail so I'm attaching a scanned redacted copy. Draw your own conclusions, but my interpretation is they are not going to do anything,lexus.pdflexus.pdf which is not what we should expect from a premium manufacturer whose USP is customer service. This is not over in my book but before I go back to them can anybody flesh out the exact details of the cabling the crims are accessing to steal the car. I'm guessing from descriptions so far that cabling to the interior of the car is run through the passenger wing behind the plastic lining and this is what they are getting at or am I wrong?

Thanks for this, it is a slightly longer version of the one I received by email but some paragraphs are identical.  
 

I was going to ask if there would be any contribution to a secondary immobiliser.

The RAV 4 has a similar vulnerability, I am not sure if the new NX is the same

[08ISF]

14 hours ago, Richolf said:

Thanks for this, it is a slightly longer version of the one I received by email but some paragraphs are identical.  

I've just responded to them with my views on their attitude, but I'm not holding my breath for any better news, as from the response you got it is clear that they have corporately closed ranks.

I've now purchased a Stoplock Pro to try and make the car a bit less attractive. This has a useful extra feature in that it lays across the horn button and any disturbance of it sets the horn off. I've now learnt how to get it on and off without sounding the horn!

I'll keep the car for now (or until someone nicks it) but given what I'm seeing  as a gradual but perceptible erosion of Lexus' core values , this will probably be my last Lexus.

[08ISF]

On 3/23/2023 at 10:40 AM, Fsport said:

They are using the wiring from the passenger side front LED lights through peeling back the front near side wheel arch lining.

 

Thanks Fsport, I didn't realise it was that part of the wiring.

[Spock66]

3 hours ago, 08ISF said:

I'll keep the car for now (or until someone nicks it) but given what I'm seeing  as a gradual but perceptible erosion of Lexus' core values , this will probably be my last Lexus.

Probably true, but unless you buy a Rolls Royce I don't see any of the other marques being any better.

[katabrontes]

Is a Rolls safe from theft?

[08ISF]

Nothing is safe from theft if a pro wants it. What is  annoying me about the current situation is that Lexus have made a silly error which makes the cars very easy to steal, even by the less skillful scrotes, and have no apparent appetite for correcting it.

[08ISF]

I've now received Lexus' response to my earlier snot mail. As follows:

"Thank you for your further email and comments.

I can only apologise that you are disappointed with my response and that it has also LED you to question our values.  This is most regrettable given our enviable reputation for consistently delivering, since Lexus was introduced some of the 

I would like to try and reassure you that we are trying to look at ways to support and protect owners from this criminal activity.  It is a difficult situation as the fundamental design of this model cannot be changed, partly as it is no longer in production but also due to fact it is a globally manufactured model. 

There are other issues to overcome, in that this crime is primarily concentrated in London and the South East and indeed, according to DVLA data, vehicle crime increased by 26% between 2021 and 2022 and that seven of the ten most targeted areas were within London and the South East. The methods used to steal these vehicles is varied but equally destructive in terms of the impact on owners and other stakeholders involved. 

I can advise that we are looking to introduce and provide a protective plating which will act as a deterrent and will cover the areas in which some thieves are trying to access and thus steal your or any other car.  As soon as we have more news as to when this will become available, we will contact you of course and we will liaise with your local Lexus Centre.  I do not have a timescale as of yet, but we acknowledge the importance of having this deterrent.  This blocking plate has been trialled in another market and early statistics show that it has been successful in reducing vehicle thefts.

I can confirm that the new generation RX and RZ models are on a different security platform. We are not aware of any thefts by the methods conveyed in our correspondence on the NX model. 

Both Mr Hayes and our General Manager, Product Quality and Service Support fully endorse and support the fitment of this protective plate when it becomes available.  I will be in touch as soon as I have further news.

In closing, thank you for your reply and comments and I hope this reply provides you with some reassurance and positive news.

Kind regards

 

Stephen Hinshelwood
Executive Office
Toyota (GB) PLC - Lexus Division"

 

So some glimmer of light then. Was definitely worth asking the question.

We'll have to wait to see what they come up with.

[Rob62]

Definitely a glimmer of hope and should be a simple and cost effective solution.

Putting a secure metal plate to cover the area beneath the wheel arch is so simple and will certainly reduce theft.

The question is how long is it going to take.............

[Richolf]

Does that also mean the new NX is on a different security platform as well?

yes it’s a globally manufactured car but this exploit is being used in at least one other country.  Let’s hope they come up with a solution soon

[08ISF]

I asked the question about the NX and all they said was they  weren't aware of any thefts of the NX by this method. Any NX people on here had their car nicked in this way?

I've also asked for an anticipated delivery timeline. Watch this space.

[Lexnew]

Hello,

I was a little concerned about the security of my car after reading about your experience  of the attempted theft on your RX, using the Can Bus method.

I did not realise how venerable we RX owners are. I was not aware that this method was used to steal cars, it quite worrying .

I always keep my car keys in a Faraday pouch. I have two pouches, one pouch is for the spare key, and the other is for the key that I use everyday. Recently I have started to get a little paranoid about having my car stolen, so I decided to check the security of my Faraday pouch. Keeping my key within the pouch I proceeding to my car and grabbed the door handle, to my surprise the door opened. I then transferred the key into the unused Faraday pouch and tried to open the car, the door remained locked. It would appear that after several years of use the Faraway pouch looses its effectivity. I have now ordered a new Faraday pouch.

 Anybody who stores their car keys in a Faraday pouch that is several years old, it might be worth checking the effectiveness of the pouch.

I was quite shore that my RX keys were safe in the my old Faraday pouch !

 

[Herbie]

13 minutes ago, Lexnew said:

It would appear that after several years of use the Faraway pouch looses its effectivity.

I suppose it depends on the individual manufacturer, but I've found that I get about a year out of mine. I check them weekly, starting as soon as I get them.

[JeffL]

On 3/30/2023 at 9:40 AM, 08ISF said:

I asked the question about the NX and all they said was they  weren't aware of any thefts of the NX by this method. Any NX people on here had their car nicked in this way?

I've also asked for an anticipated delivery timeline. Watch this space.

NX stolen 3 days ago, see the NX forum. As it's not be recovered it's not known which method was used. It is a concern though and is putting me off buying a 2018 to 2021 used one.

[Rob62]

1 hour ago, Herbie said:

I suppose it depends on the individual manufacturer, but I've found that I get about a year out of mine. I check them weekly, starting as soon as I get them.

Farraday pouches/boxes will stop someone 'stealing' the signal with antennas etc. but unfortunately will not have any bearing on someone using the Can Bus method to steal the car

[Herbie]

4 hours ago, Rob62 said:

Farraday pouches/boxes will stop someone 'stealing' the signal with antennas etc. but unfortunately will not have any bearing on someone using the Can Bus method to steal the car

That is indeed true, which is why I also use a Stoplock Elite Pro steering wheel lock, to act as a visual deterrent that will hopefully make them move on to an easier target.