Attempted Theft of my RX450h 2020

[eightk]

4 hours ago, Rob62 said:

This is probably not the right place to give out too much information about what the plate is and how it is fitted!

If you ask your Lexus dealer, I am sure they can tell you all you need to know.

Fair point! My plan is to go in and speak to service I think, armed with that RX registration above that’s had it fitted. I’m hoping it’ll fit an LC as I’d guess the wiring side of things is probably very similar.

[therealrjp]

I’ve now been contacted my CR:

“We are finalising the logistics in terms of its cost (part) and labour and will be notifying our Lexus Centre partners in due course as to when they can be ordered and provided to those owners who would like to safeguard their investment.

We would be more than happy to fit one of these protection plates to your RX and have already contacted the Centre to advise that one is on the way to them for you. Once this arrives they will contact you to arrange to have this installed, this will take about an hour and of course will be at no cost to yourself.”

Looks like they’ve come through so the way to go about things is clearly through customer relations!

[steve2006]

Perhaps others and my own comments on every RX450h post on  the Lexus Facebook page plus all the comments on here have finally got results. 

[therealrjp]

14 hours ago, steve2006 said:

Perhaps others and my own comments on every RX450h post on  the Lexus Facebook page plus all the comments on here have finally got results. 

They were quite specific in some regards saying “We have gone away to see if we could develop a deterrent over and above a customer purchasing a steering wheel lock or ghost immobiliser for example.” I imagine you’re right and they have had a fairly large number of people showing their dissatisfaction.

[eightk]

34 minutes ago, therealrjp said:

They were quite specific in some regards saying “We have gone away to see if we could develop a deterrent over and above a customer purchasing a steering wheel lock or ghost immobiliser for example.” I imagine you’re right and they have had a fairly large number of people showing their dissatisfaction.

This now needs to be offered free to every car affected as an official recall. That would be how to do PR correctly, rather than the Porsche/Land Rover etc method of shoulder shrugging. It’d even be seen as a plus. It’d cost Lexus a couple of hundred quid per car at the most and I think it’d do wonders for their excellent reputation for customer care which they were in danger of losing over this.

[Spock66]

I was called unprompted by my local dealer today to have the protection plate fitted (no mention of cost and I didn't ask), so looks like things are moving in the right direction.

[Rob62]

My car is currently at Lexus having the plate fitted.

It has taken a while but it seems that things are moving quickly now. The dealer did show me the plate and how it supposedly works as he also had another one for another customer.

It should certainly stop the car getting stolen using the can bus method but unfortunately the thieves are still likely to cause the damage trying to access the cables before they realise they cannot.

Better than nothing, I guess.......

I still think some razor wire under the wheel arch would do wonders to any hand trying to access the cables!

[PDM]

Great that this fix is now starting to roll out.  Let's hope thefts start to come down over the coming months... 

Paul

[Sybaris]

Maybe they need to imprint something on the wheel arch to say canbus connector inaccessible

[Richolf]

In order to reduce everyone’s insurance premium and deter even the attempt of the theft this plate needs to be fitted to every car vulnerable to it.  If Lexus only fit to 50% then there is still a 50/50 chance for a criminal to make it worthwhile so they will still try.  It’s only when it becomes not worth their time that they will stop.

I now realise why LV would not insure my RX without a tracker 2 years ago when they were happy to insure my XC90 which was more expensive and a faster car

[Sybaris]

Insurers are just cashing in on it.  My quotes have gone from £600 to £1100+.  Lexus wanted about £5000 to insure it, most insurers are quoting me £3000+ or refusing to insure full stop.

Big names like Esure, Churchill, Direct Line, even LV went from £1k to £1400 in just a matter of days.  I have finally go a quote I will go with from a big name.

But it is just a license for insurance companies to squeeze the customer for every penny they can make.

[Illogan]

1 hour ago, Sybaris said:

Insurers are just cashing in on it.  My quotes have gone from £600 to £1100+.  Lexus wanted about £5000 to insure it, most insurers are quoting me £3000+ or refusing to insure full stop.

Big names like Esure, Churchill, Direct Line, even LV went from £1k to £1400 in just a matter of days.  I have finally go a quote I will go with from a big name.

But it is just a license for insurance companies to squeeze the customer for every penny they can make.

Insurance companies insure risk... (But they don't take any risks!)

[Bluemarlin]

1 hour ago, Sybaris said:

Insurers are just cashing in on it.  My quotes have gone from £600 to £1100+.  Lexus wanted about £5000 to insure it, most insurers are quoting me £3000+ or refusing to insure full stop.

Big names like Esure, Churchill, Direct Line, even LV went from £1k to £1400 in just a matter of days.  I have finally go a quote I will go with from a big name.

But it is just a license for insurance companies to squeeze the customer for every penny they can make.

As much as I'm cynical about insurance companies, my feeling is that they just crunch the numbers and set premiums accordingly, based on their payout exposure and required margins. One problem is that often the revenue required to mitigate the risk, and deliver the required profit level, is aggrated over customers, some/many of whom don't always represent the same degree of individual risk.

In cases like this I tend to feel that if theft is caused primarily by a design/manufacturing vulnerability, then the manufacturer should be made liable for at least half the replacement cost. This woud result in three things. Firstly, manufacturers would have to insure against those losses rather than face the replacement cost. Secondly, the insurance revenue from the manufacturers would mean that owners premiums could be reduced to a more realistic level, that covers accidents, damage etc, as well as a smaller proportion towards theft loss. And thirdly, the insurance/replacement cost to the manufacturer would motivate them to think more carefully about vulnerabilities when designing systems, and act more quickly when such vulnerabilities occur.

[Chris Skelton]

Excuse if repeated…..I resorted to removing a front wheel of my Citroen DS each night, as deterrent. Hassle? Of course,but not THAT much……was in 1984.

[Bluemarlin]

7 minutes ago, Illogan said:

Insurance companies insure risk... (But they don't take any risks!)

Indeed. They make a book, based on odds, probabilities and past history (form), kind of like bookies. Both have sophisticated algorithms to do this, so they just feed in the numbers, set the desired profit margin, and out pops the cost.

[Spock66]

1 minute ago, Chris Skelton said:

Excuse if repeated…..I resorted to removing a front wheel of my Citroen DS each night, as deterrent. Hassle? Of course,but not THAT much……was in 1984.

But everyone knows you can drive a DS on three wheels 😀

[Chris Skelton]

Pedantically…..not on one FRONT wheel! But cudos for witty response!

Im thinking of getting an RX but ,if insurers are penalising for theft history -as mentioned earlier -I might think again ( or….remove a wheel?.)

i can’t justify  cost of a DS23……but I’ve owned 4,so have memories

[RONNIE W HODGEKINSON]

On 7/2/2023 at 1:11 PM, my pride & joy said:

I've now had the Ghost immobiliser fitted. As well as a motion sensor security light, Faraday pouch (I regularly check it's still effective) and the steering wheel lock, I'm not sure there's much more I can do. In addition, my kind neighbour has put up a security camera that covers my car. 

I'm not bothering with a tracker,  as they are too easy to find and remove and I want to prevent the car being stolen in the first place.

If thieves really want the car, it won't stop them, so I all I can do is to make it as difficult as possible for them.

J.. Have you thought about The High Voltage Fence 2 patrolling Crocodiles And a Few Tarantulas Inside the Car But Better Still Get the Good lady to Sleep inside the car at Night.. Trust me nobody will come Near Your Car !!! She will Have to be on Good terms with The Tarrantulas Though..!!

[LenT]

 

On 7/2/2023 at 1:11 PM, my pride & joy said:

I’ve now had the Ghost immobiliser fitted.

How are you getting on with it?

I have considered one of these as I like the keyless technology.  Provided it’s impervious to a CANBUS attack and not easily found, it’ll surely be a very effective and frustrating deterrent.

However, in my case, I was not convinced that the theft rate of an eight year-old IS250 is such that it warrants the installation.

But a simpler, diy alternative that might appeal to others here is the fitting of a ‘kill switch’.

I used to have a Lotus Elan to which I fitted one in the low tension lead to the distributor.  This produced the effect that the engine would turn over but never fire up.  This excellent and detailed video shows the installation of a ‘kill switch’ to the fuel pump - which has the same effect.

I mention it in case there are others owners looking for a simple alternative to a Ghost-style system.

 

 

[Sybaris]

I did ask if they are doubling or tripling the cost to insure then are they paying out 2 - 3 times the value?

Its all a scam, a legitimate and legalised scam.  Who knows how these huge companies operate at the highest levels, influencing markets etc?

[Ben 1233]

Hi new to this group. 
My ES 350 hybrid was stolen this morning in about 30 seconds.

They already attempted a few months ago and were disturbed I started using a steering wheel lock, that didn’t have much effect they just used a grinder. 
 

Lexus don’t seem to care that there is a major security flaw, and it is that simple to steal. 

 

[ColinBarber]

Sorry to hear this Ben. Do you know if they used a key relay attack or CAN bus attack (access via wheel arch)?

[PDM]

47 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Sorry to hear this Ben. Do you know if they used a key relay attack or CAN bus attack (access via wheel arch)?

Colin, seeing your post here jogged my mory of something from earlier about sleeping keys. I asked Lexus specifically about this (as a partial method for preventing relay attacks) and there was a period where Lexus keys were made to sleep and wake up when moved.  Of course the newest models are now using UWB.  My guess is that Ben's 2022 ES had sleeping keys, so possibility of a relay attack would be reduced.

Paul

[ColinBarber]

9 hours ago, PDM said:

Colin, seeing your post here jogged my mory of something from earlier about sleeping keys. I asked Lexus specifically about this (as a partial method for preventing relay attacks) and there was a period where Lexus keys were made to sleep and wake up when moved.  Of course the newest models are now using UWB.  My guess is that Ben's 2022 ES had sleeping keys, so possibility of a relay attack would be reduced.

Paul

Unfortunately Toyota/Lexus were slow to move with other manufacturers to adopt automatic sleeping keys. To my knowledge no Lexus uses them. Only the Toyota Supra has them because the engine, ecu and ancillary electronics are from BMW. 

[rk1]

On 7/12/2023 at 3:21 PM, Spock66 said:

I was called unprompted by my local dealer today to have the protection plate fitted (no mention of cost and I didn't ask), so looks like things are moving in the right direction.

I had the plate fitted last week and the dealer charged £209.04.