Attempted Theft of my RX450h 2020

[Rob62]

If it is going to be software based immobiliser, I would rather stick to my Ghost II which works perfectly.

Having an immobiliser fitted over another immobiliser may be a little overkill and if the car doesn't start, which immobiliser is at fault?!

[peniole]

11 hours ago, First_Lexus said:

I’ve generally been impressed with the KIA models I’ve seen, and Volvo as well albeit interior quality on both is short of Lexus imho (but not by much).

One word of warning though. I was at dinner in London with some colleagues a few days ago. The subject turned to cars. None of them were aware of the Lexus CANBUS issue (no real reason they should be) but my, admittedly non-technical, description prompted one of those present to wonder if a neighbour’s Kia EV6 had a similar vulnerability.

His neighbour (based in South London) had a brand new EV6 delivered on a low loader from a lease company. Two days later it was taken, from the driveway, overnight. Now, I suppose that could have been a key issue, or some ‘insider’ dealing either at the lease company or the transport company. But what it does show is that lots of marques have security issues, not just Lexus. 

You're not wrong. Kia and hyundai have a security vulnerability. There's a gameboy shaped key code generator that can get you in them remotely within seconds. No physical access required. Ev6 ioniq 5 and 6 seem to be vulnerable.

[GSLV6]

Well, I came full circle back to Lexus after looking at Volvo XC60 and 90 models, Mazda cX5 and CX60's, Kia and a few others.  Volvos didn't do any engine options I wanted and lots of reports of niggling faults despite the lovely interiors.  Ride quality so-so.  CX5 too small for my needs, CX60 priced too high imho, as looking at year old higher spec models they were all over £40K and the interiors not up to lexus standards plus reports of issues with the over stressed turbo engine models plus way too much plastic used under the bonnet, including for the cooling and interior heating systems.  Ride quality no-where near as good as the 4th gen RX models.

I immediately discounted Kia as they and Hyundai both have the very same canbus vulnerability as the Lexus, Toyota, Porsche, landrover and ford cars.

Bought a very nice Rx4 in the end with steel plate mods plus additional security and despite the galling insurance premium, couldn't be happier with the car.  No other model yet offers the same blend of interior quality, ride quality and reliability.  Performance is laughably understated by Lexus and all the same responses from reviewers saying this is no sports SUV equally laughable.  It flies in sport + mode.

[larryadler]

15 minutes ago, GSLV6 said:

Well, I came full circle back to Lexus after looking at Volvo XC60 and 90 models, Mazda cX5 and CX60's, Kia and a few others.  Volvos didn't do any engine options I wanted and lots of reports of niggling faults despite the lovely interiors.  Ride quality so-so.  CX5 too small for my needs, CX60 priced too high imho, as looking at year old higher spec models they were all over £40K and the interiors not up to lexus standards plus reports of issues with the over stressed turbo engine models plus way too much plastic used under the bonnet, including for the cooling and interior heating systems.  Ride quality no-where near as good as the 4th gen RX models.

I immediately discounted Kia as they and Hyundai both have the very same canbus vulnerability as the Lexus, Toyota, Porsche, landrover and ford cars.

Bought a very nice Rx4 in the end with steel plate mods plus additional security and despite the galling insurance premium, couldn't be happier with the car.  No other model yet offers the same blend of interior quality, ride quality and reliability.  Performance is laughably understated by Lexus and all the same responses from reviewers saying this is no sports SUV equally laughable.  It flies in sport + mode.

Don’t tell everybody Paul, they’ll all want one !

[RXtoNX]

3 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

  Performance is laughably understated by Lexus and all the same responses from reviewers saying this is no sports SUV equally laughable.  It flies in sport + mode.

At last, someone who shares the same view as me 👍

I’ve stated before, “the car can be hurried along country lanes, especially if you have the adaptive dampers.”

[GSLV6]

13 hours ago, RXtoNX said:

At last, someone who shares the same view as me 👍

I’ve stated before, “the car can be hurried along country lanes, especially if you have the adaptive dampers.”

Indeed I do.  From a standing start, GPS shows the 60 sprint in a little under 7 seconds which is almost a second quicker than claimed.  The real punch though isn't in this "off at the lights" measure, it's in the 40-70 range where it reacts more like a 3 litre turbo diesel, thanks to the instant torque of the electric motors.  They must have re-tuned the mapping in sport + over the RX3 sport setting because there's significantly more shove, enough to push me back into the seat.  Makes for effortless overtakes when needed. Even with spirited driving, it's settled down to a 33mpg average too, with one or two longer cross country runs at over 36mpg, so slightly better on fuel as well.  The adaptive dampers make a big difference.  Almost no body roll, and combined with the speed variable weighted steering, handles impressively on twisty roads.

Changing the tyres from the OEM ones to Turance 6 Enliten tyres was a good move.  Way more grip (especially in the wet) and less road noise.

[Spock66]

I asked Lexus Customer Relations for an update and this is their response.

Thank you for contacting Lexus UK.

We understand the concerns you may have with regards to the safety of your RX450h F Sport. 

I can confirm that Lexus UK is investing heavily in looking to offer additional security enhancements to those customers who may potentially be impacted by the rise in organised criminal activity. We are waiting for final confirmation, upon testing, as to when this will be implemented and introduced to support customers.  

Regrettably, it is taking a little longer than expected but we anticipate being able to advise the Lexus Centre network with full details very soon, as they will be responsible for fitting the enhanced security measure.

We would like to take this opportunity to thank you for taking the time to highlight your concerns with Lexus UK.

Hopefully this will provide some reassurance that we are committed to finding a solution for our valued customers.

[DaveyBoy]

Thanks for the update. 

[my pride & joy]

25 minutes ago, Spock66 said:

I asked Lexus Customer Relations for an update and this is their response.

Thank you for contacting Lexus UK.

We understand the concerns you may have with regards to the safety of your RX450h F Sport. 

I can confirm that Lexus UK is investing heavily in looking to offer additional security enhancements to those customers who may potentially be impacted by the rise in organised criminal activity. We are waiting for final confirmation, upon testing, as to when this will be implemented and introduced to support customers.  

Regrettably, it is taking a little longer than expected but we anticipate being able to advise the Lexus Centre network with full details very soon, as they will be responsible for fitting the enhanced security measure.

We would like to take this opportunity to thank you for taking the time to highlight your concerns with Lexus UK.

Hopefully this will provide some reassurance that we are committed to finding a solution for our valued customers.

Meanwhile, Lexus cars are being stolen daily. All good for Lexus though as they get to sell you another -   2 sales instead of 1......

[GSLV6]

I think that they have already got the solution, which won't be a hardware replacement in terms of CANBUS architecture.  That would bankrupt Lexus due to the implications.  It may just be speculation but I can't see anything they can offer except for an "approved" immobiliser operable without recourse to the CANBUS system so that it cannot be hacked, or by re-writing ecu software such that it has to look for the thumbs up from the discrete immobiliser, involving some form of ECU reflash.  What they delay is for I don't understand as this has been known about for a good few years but swept under the carpets in the vain hope there wouldn't be the backlash by customers against them.  Ask yourself, would Lexus have been pushed into doing something if no complaints had been made, of their own honest volition?  of course not.  It'll be a least cost sticking plaster, but in their defense, at least they are seemingly addressing it.  It may not prevent attempted theft so owners are still advised to add a visible deterrent in the form of steering wheel locks, wheel locks or both to make it an unattractive target.  They may surprise us yet, so worth giving them the benefit of doubt, and wait and see.  If they truly do value existing customers, whatever is offered will be fit for purpose.  If it isn't, they'll lose a heck of a lot of UK customers.

[DaveyBoy]

I understand your frustration. The solution, whatever it is, will come. It could be a minor software change. We don't know how much spare resources the canbus boxes have. Even if not encrypted, any update to make it harder to steal will be welcome. The details of the update must not be discussed. 

I expect the final test is a small scale roll out, possibly to cars on the lot, to a couple of dealers. This way, any screw ups won't impact customers. And it'll give lexus the information they need to fully cost the hours to install, and the risks of breaking stuff. If the update affects the ECU then there might be side effects. Lexus won't take such risks, I wouldn't. The backlash would be worse! 

Yes, they were probably slow of the mark. Yes they would have done nothing without this forum and the informed people here pestering them. But, they need the time to make it right. Sadly, nothing we can do. So long as one of us checks in with Customers Relations once a month then that's all we can do.

Hang in there buddy!

[Derfo]

Got my security plates fitted yesterday and was chatting up with the service guys afterwards. None of them had a clue of any "fix" coming from Lexus besides the plates which is quite concerning. Even if a solution is being developed, Lexus should keep their dealers informed who in turn can inform their customers. This is just one mistake after another from Lexus, really disappointing. Makes me wonder if our next car will be a Lexus!

[GSLV6]

2 hours ago, Derfo said:

Got my security plates fitted yesterday and was chatting up with the service guys afterwards. None of them had a clue of any "fix" coming from Lexus besides the plates which is quite concerning. Even if a solution is being developed, Lexus should keep their dealers informed who in turn can inform their customers. This is just one mistake after another from Lexus, really disappointing. Makes me wonder if our next car will be a Lexus!

I rather suspect that they are keeping dealerships informed but are asking them to say nothing for now.  The answers I got were all framed in the same formulaic way, clearly they've been briefed.

[First_Lexus]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/which-cars-are-stolen-most-often-in-london/

Worth a read, clearly an epidemic affecting a lot of marques as well as Lexus, albeit given the lower numbers (I assume) of Lexus out there the proportionate risk of theft must be higher?

[Sybaris]

Now if theives stole them off Lexus forecourts, I bet improvements would happen fast.

[DaveyBoy]

Interesting read that. I didn't see Tesla on that list. Quite telling that. From what I understand, any Tesla that's stolen will get tracked quickly and gets remotely deactivated, so it sold for parts only. 

My local stealer got robbed. Hilux taken last year, they recovered it from a container the next day. Since then, they strengthened their perimeter.

[ic2alpha]

Hello chaps,

I have had an update on the promised fix from my Lexus dealer.

It seems that Lexus have chosen to go with a Tracker and they are now training technicians on carrying out the installations, and after that, start arranging booking customers in.

I have made them aware of my disappointment and the lack of an actual fix for the canbus weakness, and asked them for a response on what happens to those of us that have had a tracker and immobiliser installed in response to the thefts.

You are welcome to try and get an update from your dealer.

 

[PDM]

4 minutes ago, ic2alpha said:

Hello chaps,

I have had an update on the promised fix from my Lexus dealer.

It seems that Lexus have chosen to go with a Tracker and they are now training technicians on carrying out the installations, and after that, start arranging booking customers in.

I have made them aware of my disappointment and the lack of an actual fix for the canbus weakness, and asked them for a response on what happens to those of us that have had a tracker and immobiliser installed in response to the thefts.

You are welcome to try and get an update from your dealer.

 

So no actual fix on the CANbus? After all this time? It can't be?

Paul

[Rob62]

18 minutes ago, ic2alpha said:

Hello chaps,

I have had an update on the promised fix from my Lexus dealer.

It seems that Lexus have chosen to go with a Tracker and they are now training technicians on carrying out the installations, and after that, start arranging booking customers in.

I have made them aware of my disappointment and the lack of an actual fix for the canbus weakness, and asked them for a response on what happens to those of us that have had a tracker and immobiliser installed in response to the thefts.

You are welcome to try and get an update from your dealer.

 

That is extremely disappointing. Why has it taken so long to think 'Let's add a tracker'.

A ghost immobiliser is probably a better option. At lease they can't drive away the car and therefore you will not need to track it!

[eightk]

A free tracker is lovely but it doesn't stop the car being stolen. There'll also be ongoing costs to keep it live.

Rewriting the canbus software isn't happening - it'd cost £££ and take even longer.

A proper circuit-disconnecting immobiliser is the answer, together with the tracker, provided it's not fitted in the same circuit or location on all cars.

Hands up who else also thought of this bl**dy months ago?

[PDM]

21 minutes ago, eightk said:

A free tracker is lovely but it doesn't stop the car being stolen. There'll also be ongoing costs to keep it live.

Rewriting the canbus software isn't happening - it'd cost £££ and take even longer.

A proper circuit-disconnecting immobiliser is the answer, together with the tracker, provided it's not fitted in the same circuit or location on all cars.

Hands up who else also thought of this bl**dy months ago?

I know a lot has been written on here about not being able to rewrite the CAN software but I understand this is exactly what JLR has done? I think I read that they detect the intentional bus errors caused by the CAN injector within some time window and apply a timeout...

At least I have not just taken delivery of  brand new, and still CANbus vulnerable, LC500 ultimate edition.... You guys must be even more furious than us RX4 owners....

Paul

[eightk]

Furious? Yes! As far as I know only two LC have been nicked so far. The thieves are far too classy and go for the RX every time 😉 

[Spock66]

Let's bear in mind this is just anecdotal from one dealer, and I sincerely hope the actual details when we get them offers something significantly better.

[ic2alpha]

1 hour ago, Spock66 said:

Let's bear in mind this is just anecdotal from one dealer, and I sincerely hope the actual details when we get them offers something significantly better.

I am hoping that there’s more than just a tracker coming too, and hence my response to them.

They have been accurate with their information to me at every instance, and I would take this latest one as 99% accurate. Let’s just hope that aside of the tracker, there might also be an update to the ecu and or a 3rd party immobiliser to stop the thefts in the first place. If not, the tracker is not the solution we were all hoping for.

 

 

[ic2alpha]

5 hours ago, PDM said:

So no actual fix on the CANbus? After all this time? It can't be?

Paul

Not based on the email response I had from the dealer, only the mention of a tracker installation and that technician are being trained. Booking customers in will follow that I was told.

If this is this all there is coming, I would be disappointed, and hence my suggestion that we should not let down on the pressure we have been applying.

I have been refusing their approaches and invites to go and see their new RXs, and have told them that I won’t buy another Lexus until I see what they do with the Canbus vulnerability.