Attempted Theft of my RX450h 2020

[RONNIE W HODGEKINSON]

Yes Rob.. I See What You Mean...B******Ds ...Make sure your CCTV Alerts you when someone coming close to your car..Another thing Rob Get signs saying( Beware Of The Dogs ) Who Cares You Only Have Muffy a Little Toy Poodle..That can also be a Deterrant.. Bring back The Birch I say For these Nutscums...Oh I Can Hear The Goody Goodies saying Oh You Cant Do That..Worked in the isle of Man Only 2% Crime rate when that was Administered..

[GMB]

This ( see pic ) seems to work. Looks OK. Seems solid enough. Easy to use. Fits on the floor near the seat. Handy if defending yourself from road rage😊 Bought last year from Halfords.

[katabrontes]

Is it possible to reroute the wiring under the wheel arch so it is not accessible?  I agree this won't stop the attempt but since it seems the damage from pulling off the wheel arch liner is minimal this isn't really a big problem.

If the wiring can be rerouted so it is above the wheel arch inside the bonnet then it should be harder to access.

[Illogan]

1 hour ago, katabrontes said:

Is it possible to reroute the wiring under the wheel arch so it is not accessible?  I agree this won't stop the attempt but since it seems the damage from pulling off the wheel arch liner is minimal this isn't really a big problem.

If the wiring can be rerouted so it is above the wheel arch inside the bonnet then it should be harder to access.

I've had a similar thought - could the wiring not be fed into an armoured cable-cover, that would also make any theft more difficult.

[Spock66]

54 minutes ago, Illogan said:

I've had a similar thought - could the wiring not be fed into an armoured cable-cover, that would also make any theft more difficult.

I'm thinking whether a software update could be developed so that either that section of wiring is disabled or any CAN bus commands ignored when the vehicle is locked and secured.

[MrTrendizzle]

38 minutes ago, Spock66 said:

I'm thinking whether a software update could be developed so that either that section of wiring is disabled or any CAN bus commands ignored when the vehicle is locked and secured.

Get an electronic cut out switch that disabled the coilpack so even if they get in to the car, it won't start without the ECO key.
I suppose it ruins the whole keyless entry/start but if you're in a high risk area of your car being stolen spending 10 seconds opening the glovebox and inserting a key might go a long way.

[VFR]

I have sent Lexus a message asking “what they” are doing (?) to address this issue as they should be doing with some urgency IMO

[Rob62]

2 hours ago, VFR said:

I have sent Lexus a message asking “what they” are doing (?) to address this issue as they should be doing with some urgency IMO

So did I and I git a response a couple of days later basically saying to use a steering wheel lock! I guess they do not really give a s***!

[Richolf]

I also send an email to customer relations today as this is worrying me.  I actually took my wife’s car when going out at the weekend as didn’t want to come back to no car and 100 miles at home.   It’s concerning that Lexus with all their engineering ability answer is to buy a steering lock.

[owen leleu]

I like the idea of extra security,particularly the Ghost 2 immobiliser, but I have read on other forums that any start/stop device has to be turned off otherwise when one stops at traffic lights, for instance, and the engine cuts out you have to go through the whole starting procedure again ie entering your PIN.

With our ICE constantly cutting in and out on the RX ,I wonder how this would work? Clearly you could not enter your PIN every time to restart the engine.

Anyone any ideas?

[VFR]

Yes had a response the same as Rob received, so I replied with this.………..

 

{Morning 

Thanks for the response but I (and we the owners) was hoping that Lexus would not just state the bleeding obvious but be attempting to remedy this issue for good. 

Things that I have read would be re-routing the attack point into the engine bay if possible ?

Some kind of IT update to the cars systems ?

 

From your response it would seem that Lexus are not that interested about one of their top brands becoming the most stolen car in the UK and just what this rating will have on sales. 

 

 

[Richolf]

Thanks I will let you know what I get back.  I did mention about selling the car and moving to a brand that takes security seriously. I was looking at an NX next but who knows what this may be vulnerable to.

[Sixty]

46 minutes ago, owen leleu said:

I like the idea of extra security,particularly the Ghost 2 immobiliser, but I have read on other forums that any start/stop device has to be turned off otherwise when one stops at traffic lights, for instance, and the engine cuts out you have to go through the whole starting procedure again ie entering your PIN.

With our ICE constantly cutting in and out on the RX ,I wonder how this would work? Clearly you could not enter your PIN every time to restart the engine.

Anyone any ideas?

I don’t know how other Ghost Immobilisers work but with the Scorpion X-Series you enter the car, press start, enter your code and that’s it, carry on driving as you would normally. It will only reset once you switch the ignition off and get out of the car. You can also put it in valet mode (using your code) which completely disables it until you activate it again.

[RONNIE W HODGEKINSON]

On 3/12/2023 at 11:14 AM, GMB said:

This ( see pic ) seems to work. Looks OK. Seems solid enough. Easy to use. Fits on the floor near the seat. Handy if defending yourself from road rage😊 Bought last year from Halfords.

Graham... The Most Effective position for this Milenco Steering wheel lock is to position it vertically between the middle struts which cover the wheel controls on the left if you know what i mean..This makes it much much harder to dislodge This is how i ALWAYS put mine on..Hope that helps...Ps this is how it shows you how to put it on But Its not the best nor the most secure way.!!! btw It fits like a glove vertically and is still clearly seen...!!!

[PDM]

I have also written to customer relations.  I suggest as many of us who are concerned do the same.

Paul

[Spock66]

Just for info, this is from the Wikipedia description of the CAN bus so hardly something that should not have been thought of by the Lexus engineers.

Security[edit]

CAN is a low-level protocol and does not support any security features intrinsically. There is also no encryption in standard CAN implementations, which leaves these networks open to man-in-the-middle frame interception. In most implementations, applications are expected to deploy their own security mechanisms; e.g., to authenticate incoming commands or the presence of certain devices on the network. Failure to implement adequate security measures may result in various sorts of attacks if the opponent manages to insert messages on the bus.^[20] While passwords exist for some safety-critical functions, such as modifying firmware, programming keys, or controlling antilock brake actuators, these systems are not implemented universally and have a limited number of seed/key pairs.

[08ISF]

 

 

 

 

58 minutes ago, PDM said:

I have also written to customer relations.  I suggest as many of us who are concerned do the same.

Paul

From my experience with their customer relations dept, you will simply be fobbed off with the usual platitudes. I have written today, by snail mail to their CEO  , text of the letter reproduced below and should be self explanatory:

"You may remember that I wrote to you this time last year in connection with my concerns over the provisions of the Relax warranty, and your staff answered my queries comprehensively and satisfactorily, so thank you for that.

I now have another matter, which is of some concern. I do not believe it appropriate to approach Lexus Customer Services directly myself as the issues require high level assurance and not the simple platitudes I have experienced from customer services staff generally. I am contacting you, as I believe you will be best placed to feed it down to the staff with the authority to deal with it.

Reports are becoming more numerous about thefts of 4^th generation RX450h cars and as an owner this is obviously of interest. As I understand it, the criminals gain access to the car’s CANBUS system via vulnerable wiring in the passenger front wheel arch and then use this to fool the car into thinking the key is present, allowing them to enter it and drive away. I further understand that thefts have become so prevalent that the Lexus RX450h has now entered the top ten of most stolen cars in the UK and one in sixteen RX’s in Canada were stolen last year.

 

 

This is obviously a security design weakness, which is being exploited and is inappropriate to an expensive quality vehicle. The effect on owners such as myself is anxiety, possible reduced values, and by the looks of it, substantially increased insurance premiums, not to mention the inconvenience of having to use additional security such as steering wheel locks. This, in a car that is full of electronic driver aids!

The bottom line here is what are you doing about it, and when can we expect a recall or service technical bulletin to be issued?

 

I am very fond of my RX but it is approaching the age when I normally change my car and in choosing a replacement I will not be willing to spend tens of thousands on something which is so easy to steal and hence difficult to insure."

 

I look forward to Lexus’ advice that this problem is going to be resolved shortly."

 

My last contact via this route was fruitful but it did require a formal letter rather than an email.  If he gets enough letters like this he may tell his underlings to sort it.

If anyone wishes to take the time the address for the CEO was on an earlier post.

 

[katabrontes]

I have been vacillating over replacing my RX350 with a newer 450, probably 2020 or later.  All this has definitely make me much more inclined to keep the 350 for several more years.  It's been trouble free since I bought it 12 years ago so apart from a little extra on road tax and petrol the benefit from swapping seems to be confined to the slightly better design of the door cills which don't scuff your trousers as you get out. Not a lot for the extra cost of changing!  Servicing is more straightforward and my local garage, 5 minutes walk, have looked after it since I bought it.  Otherwise it would mean at last an annual trip to Hedge End, about an hour each way, to have the inverter checked.

[GMB]

4 hours ago, RONNIE W HODGEKINSON said:

Graham... The Most Effective position for this Milenco Steering wheel lock is to position it vertically between the middle struts which cover the wheel controls on the left if you know what i mean..This makes it much much harder to dislodge This is how i ALWAYS put mine on..Hope that helps...Ps this is how it shows you how to put it on But Its not the best nor the most secure way.!!! btw It fits like a glove vertically and is still clearly seen...!!!

Thanks for that info. I will give it a go.

[MrTrendizzle]

If Lexus really wanted to "secure" all vehicles they could introduce a small serial can bus module that floods the network with zero's effectively forcing the rest of the computers onboard to sit and wait for the device to deactivate.  

Getting this wired to the remote keyfob sensor to activate/deactivate when in/out of range shouldn't be too hard, leaving the only way to steal the car being the signal booster method, which people can prevent by placing their keys in a pouch or tinfoil lined box/jar.  

A dev kit with OBD connector and module costs roughly £22, which i'm sure Lexus could build inhouse or buy in much cheaper. Hell if they offered it as a "Paid security update" people would be happy to spend £50 on that.

[Frank the Hornet]

Hi this is an extract from our Neighbourhood Watch, for the London Boroughs for 2022 pleasing to see Lexus not appearing on this.

Dear Watch Member,

Latest figures show that in 2022 the following makes of vehicle were the most likely to be stolen, shown as a % of the number of those vehicles on the road:

• 0.77% Land Rover Discovery
• 0.63% Ford EcoSport
• 0.41% Ford Fiesta
• 0.38% Land Rover Range Rover
• 0.27% Mercedes-Benz C-Class
• 0.22% Volkswagen Golf
• 0.21% Ford Focus
• 0.19% Audi A3
• 0.18% Vauxhall Astra
• 0.13% Vauxhall Corsa

This equates to 21,643 vehicle thefts over that period, with the overall total for 2022 being 58,082 vehicles recorded as stolen - an average of 159 vehicles per day, an 18% increase on 2021.

For Hillingdon this breaks down to 939 reported vehicle thefts in 2022.

 

[Huwge]

The problem with that list is the fact it doesn't give the year range. Fiesta, Golf etc. have been in production for a very long time. I would imagine that the percentage of Lexus vehicles owned in the areas would be small in any case. A better percentage would be those stolen out of of the numbers owned / parked on that area. I've seen elsewhere on the forum where it has been said something like seven Lexus stolen in one area in one night (I believe it was Richmond)

 

Also you would have to consider, along with the age of the vehicle, how many were 'joyriders' where the vehicles are later recovered. The Lexus, Land Rover etc are being stolen for export

 

[PeterI]

Lexus Insurance have been fitting imobilizers on RXs for free for owners (I had mine fitted recently) due to high theft numbers so at least their insurance arm is aware. The fob for the imobilzer even has Lexus branding.

[Rob62]

1 minute ago, PeterI said:

Lexus Insurance have been fitting imobilizers on RXs for free for owners (I had mine fitted recently) due to high theft numbers so at least their insurance arm is aware. The fob for the imobilzer even has Lexus branding.

Do they only fit them if you are insured through Lexus insurance? They are very expensive compared to other insurers.

[PeterI]

Just now, Rob62 said:

Do they only fit them if you are insured through Lexus insurance? They are very expensive compared to other insurers.

I would guess so, more something to raise with Lexus UK vehicle folks that the Insurance folks have seen an issue.

For me the price wasn't that far off other insurers (10%?) and I like the idea of them using OEM parts after an accident.