ES Build Quality

Cs150 · February 28, 2023

Have to say overall very happy with the ES and think it is reasonable value for money especially with the very large discounts on list price possible. Overall I feel the build quality is not quite as good as what I was expecting (this is the first Lexus). Car has done 600 miles and only been out in the rain twice and have noticed corrosion on bolt on parts that are not part of the bodywork and therefore not covered by the corrosion and anti perforation warranty commitments which specifically state it is the bodywork that contains such a warranty. Have noticed the following:

1, Rear towing eye a bolt on part has surface rust showing

2, OS engine mount has some surface rust a picture is provided

Of course such parts would take hundreds of years to rust through but more care should be shown in my opinion for a so called premium make

Initial P · February 28, 2023

Underpinnings from a Camry but I'm sure the top half is great.

Cs150 · March 1, 2023

14 hours ago, Initial P said:

Underpinnings from a Camry but I'm sure the top half is great.

Ironically only paid Camry money for it, 15.2% off the 2021 ES list price plus a little extra finance interest after settling it after 4 weeks, think the Camry was £900 less only from memory. Perhaps Lexus quality is not what it was. Have asked the dealer for comments on the corrosion to see if it fits their expectations of the quality and brand image.

george72 · March 1, 2023

interesting Carl, do let us know what the Dealer says. Like you, i also paid Camry money so more than happy with purchase, but if i was totally honest, the interior quality is not a patch on my old BMW 530- This along with the tech, and UI are not a match for the Germans. I genuinely have no regrets so for the money i think i have a cracking car!

SSUR · March 3, 2023

It may be somewhat unfair to compare the ES with a Camry (no longer available in UK) since it will undoubtedly be better built and insulated.

The more fair comparison is with the old GS and I can tell you the interior on the ES is not a patch on the GS. Corners have been cut everywhere which are both visible and apparent in touch. This is why the interior also cannot get close to a 5 series since both the 5 and the old GS were superior cars for build.

The ES is still a great car in many other respects, fine ride, smooth and improved cvt, quiet, economical (all better than GS in my experience), just not the interior build, that is all.

March 3, 2023

7 minutes ago, SSUR said:

It may be somewhat unfair to compare the ES with a Camry (no longer available in UK) since it will undoubtedly be better built and insulated.

The more fair comparison is with the old GS and I can tell you the interior on the ES is not a patch on the GS. Corners have been cut everywhere which are both visible and apparent in touch. This is why the interior also cannot get close to a 5 series since both the 5 and the old GS were superior cars for build.

The ES is still a great car in many other respects, fine ride, smooth and improved cvt, quiet, economical (all better than GS in my experience), just not the interior build, that is all.

I’m really impressed with mine, I have had a BMW 4 series and a Merc C class, and think it compares very favourably, never been in a GS though so cant compare. I have the Takumi do you think there’s a big difference between the trim levels, I’ve only ever been in my Takumi

beyond the blue · March 3, 2023

1 hour ago, SSUR said:

It may be somewhat unfair to compare the ES with a Camry (no longer available in UK) since it will undoubtedly be better built and insulated.

The more fair comparison is with the old GS and I can tell you the interior on the ES is not a patch on the GS. Corners have been cut everywhere which are both visible and apparent in touch. This is why the interior also cannot get close to a 5 series since both the 5 and the old GS were superior cars for build.

The ES is still a great car in many other respects, fine ride, smooth and improved cvt, quiet, economical (all better than GS in my experience), just not the interior build, that is all.

It appears to be throughout the range. There is someone local to me that has a stunning looking new LS and l managed to have a chat with him today on a supermarket car park. I expected him to be full of joy with his head turner, but no, he said it wasn't a patch on his old one in many ways.

SSUR · March 3, 2023

4 hours ago, Derant said:

I’m really impressed with mine, I have had a BMW 4 series and a Merc C class, and think it compares very favourably, never been in a GS though so cant compare. I have the Takumi do you think there’s a big difference between the trim levels, I’ve only ever been in my Takumi

Yes Takumi is really nice with extended semi aniline top class leather seats, shimomoku wood and leather trim on panels and steering and the larger screen. All makes for a great comfort machine

SSUR · March 3, 2023

2 hours ago, beyond the blue said:

It appears to be throughout the range. There is someone local to me that has a stunning looking new LS and l managed to have a chat with him today on a supermarket car park. I expected him to be full of joy with his head turner, but no, he said it wasn't a patch on his old one in many ways.

Agreed, use of lighter and cheaper materials and instead more investment in tech. This is across all makes including Lexus.

I have the LS600hl. Very rare car and pretty much universally believed by owners to be superior to the new LS500 for comfort and refinement. The dealers agree and so there is nothing compelling to change to in the range, maybe LC500, now that would be a treat!

SSUR · March 3, 2023

My dealer mentioned at the last service that they have another customer with a 600 who is now approaching 200k miles and he cannot find anything to replace it with. He has tried the new model and just can’t get on with it. Making it sporty has taken it away from its king of comfort badge.

Mincey · March 4, 2023

12 hours ago, beyond the blue said:

It appears to be throughout the range. There is someone local to me that has a stunning looking new LS and l managed to have a chat with him today on a supermarket car park. I expected him to be full of joy with his head turner, but no, he said it wasn't a patch on his old one in many ways.

Once the initial excitement of change had worn off, It didn't take me long to realise that the interior quality of my IS300h wasn't up to my Gen 2 IS250.

Las Palmas · March 4, 2023

Seems that buying a Toyota will be a better idea than a new Lexus from what I read here. All with the old cars are happy and too many with latest have various issues.

It takes a long time to get a reputation and not very long to ruin it.

Have only been in the CT and it is slightly better built than VW Golf DSG, not nearly as good as Honda Accord Coupé.

Ala Larj · March 4, 2023

16 hours ago, SSUR said:

It may be somewhat unfair to compare the ES with a Camry (no longer available in UK) since it will undoubtedly be better built and insulated.

The more fair comparison is with the old GS and I can tell you the interior on the ES is not a patch on the GS. Corners have been cut everywhere which are both visible and apparent in touch. This is why the interior also cannot get close to a 5 series since both the 5 and the old GS were superior cars for build.

The ES is still a great car in many other respects, fine ride, smooth and improved cvt, quiet, economical (all better than GS in my experience), just not the interior build, that is all.

I was thinking of trading in my 2014 GS300H premier in for an ES but after a test drive I found the interior quality of the ES below par. It didn’t look as classy as the GS and there were to many hard plastics, most notably on the side of the transmission tunnel. Also the door cards felt cheap. I can’t find anything suitable which feels as nice inside as the GS so looks like I’ll be happily stuck with it for a few more years!

beyond the blue · March 4, 2023

2 minutes ago, Ala Larj said:

I was thinking of trading in my 2014 GS300H premier in for an ES but after a test drive I found the interior quality of the ES below par. It didn’t look as classy as the GS and there were to many hard plastics, most notably on the side of the transmission tunnel. Also the door cards felt cheap. I can’t find anything suitable which feels as nice inside as the GS so looks like I’ll be happily stuck with it for a few more years!

Confused as to what you mean by 'transmission tunnel' the ES is front wheel drive?

Mincey · March 4, 2023

11 minutes ago, beyond the blue said:

Confused as to what you mean by 'transmission tunnel' the ES is front wheel drive?

I think he means the "driver/wife separator between the seats"

Ala Larj · March 4, 2023

10 minutes ago, Mincey said:

I think he means the "driver/wife separator between the seats"

Indeed. I’m old school so have always called it a transmission tunnel!

george72 · March 4, 2023

yup agree with Ala, lots of cheap hard plastics that shouldn't really be there on a 'premium' car.

Mincey · March 4, 2023

1 hour ago, george72 said:

yup agree with Ala, lots of cheap hard plastics that shouldn't really be there on a 'premium' car.

It's still a very pleasant place to be though, as they say on Pistonheads.

SSUR · March 4, 2023

6 hours ago, Ala Larj said:

I was thinking of trading in my 2014 GS300H premier in for an ES but after a test drive I found the interior quality of the ES below par. It didn’t look as classy as the GS and there were to many hard plastics, most notably on the side of the transmission tunnel. Also the door cards felt cheap. I can’t find anything suitable which feels as nice inside as the GS so looks like I’ll be happily stuck with it for a few more years!

I entirely understand and agree! The GS4 was vastly over engineered much like the old Mercedes E class W124. In my view it was a unique car in its class with interior quality and build making it a mini LS. Lexus did not sell many across the globe and likely lost money on them so it was ultimately discontinued, especially given the increasing popularity of the Lexus suvs.

As owners we were very badly spoilt as there is no direct replacement on the market. A Volvo S90 I was in recently reminded me of the GS, most impressive. E class and A6 are both behind, 5 best built of the Germans I think but without the comfort of the GS ( seats on 540i were awful although ride surprisingly good).

Lexus dealers agreed with my own analysis that old GS customers were universally disappointed by the ES interior quality and stayed away. ES is ok if you are coming from another make but just behind the GS. All depends what you value because as I have said the ES is still a great car in many ways. You win some you lose some…

For my part after 6 years of GS4 ( I previously had 3 other GSs so a very long-standing fan), I also politely declined to buy a new ES replacement. Instead I went for a used facelift LS600hl. The build quality is just astounding with many parts hand built or finished. Obviously more expensive to run but I knew that and just love the feeling of running a uniquely rare and under the radar flagship model.

Mincey · March 4, 2023

Ok, let's put it another way. Is the ES a better car than the Gen 2 IS? Yes it is, despite the build quality/material issues.

SSUR · March 5, 2023

3 hours ago, Mincey said:

Ok, let's put it another way. Is the ES a better car than the Gen 2 IS? Yes it is, despite the build quality/material issues.

Mincey you are quite right and I agree. For a start the ES has a very nice smooth ride which is much better than a slightly jittery IS2, also much more interior space and modern tech and feel. Like I say, you win some and you lose some.

STE041 · March 5, 2023

I’ve had an IS300h Advance 2016 from new and 2 x ES300h F Sport with Takumi pack - 2019 and my current one being MY21. Having come from company cars I agree with others that when coming from another brand into Lexus for the most part anyone would see an improvement. That said, having als had a fair share of riding around in German Brands, Audis will rattle like a babies toy after 5k miles, BMW is not worth the money, I had a 4 series on a 69 plate a few years back and bits of dash would fall off when on bumpy roads and the ride quality was lousy.

Recently having has an E300 Merc convertible and currently driving a CLA Merc - the ride is rubbish, the infotainment is lacking - lots, and the build quality in my opinion is less than that of my current ES.

I’m looking forward to my ES coming back into play in the next week or so (new front bumper being fitted following a car park shunt by others). Yes if you compare to the GS450h the ES build loses, and yes if you compare the ES to BMW 5 series on top spec the ES may lose but you need to compare the same grade cars and not compare a mini with a Bentley.

For the ES at its price point, there isn’t much better out there. I’m not convinced on the MY22 & 23 as it looks like the dashboard and centre console have been chopped in, but having tried recent other Brands, I can live with plastic door cards and driver / wife separator (transmission tunnel).

What I notice in other brands when mine is off the road is the noise, ride quality and road presence are all lacking. The E Class and CLA Merc I’ve had most recently as loaners don’t even have decent sounds, or radar cruise which really when adding to high cabin noise make it not worth considering anything ales at this time for me.

e-yes · March 5, 2023

4 hours ago, STE041 said:

Audis will rattle like a babies toy after 5k miles, BMW is not worth the money, I had a 4 series on a 69 plate a few years back and bits of dash would fall off when on bumpy roads and the ride quality was lousy.

Recently having has an E300 Merc

Exactly my experience as well.

Had a 2018 A6 from brand new, rattles started at about 3k miles. Had a used 2008 BMW 3er Touring for three years. Very sporty ride but spoiled by runflat tyres along with body/frame squeaks galore and for any drive longer than two hours would give me a back ache.

I did consider E-Class and a 5-Series before deciding on the ES but based on my past experiences wasn’t really keen on getting into over hyped German brands.

Cs150 · March 6, 2023

A short update to the corrosion issues. Called the dealer last week and was advised by the service function 'bring in the car a booked appointment is needed". Advised that it will take 20 mins to get there a further 20 mins to get back and disrupt the day working from home, additionally there will be no parking or if there is a small space which is extremely unlikely it will need a 10 point turn to get the ES in it! Agreed to send pictures of which no receipt was acknowledged that they were suitable. An email chase from me to check if there was any consideration if bolt on parts are covered has not had a reply! Not feeling the premium service from Lexus and I feel a non premium make dealer would probably have provided better service to this point. Will allow additional time and then further chase if still silent. In all honesty in my opinion the local Ford and Toyota (same franchise ironically) provide better customer service.

Cs150 · March 28, 2023

Had a formal response for the corrosion issues it is detailed below, make of it what you will:

Corrosion around the cast mount fittings is quite normal – has been touched in with a small amount of paint to improve its appearance but won’t give us any problems in the long term.