EGR

[Heliwilly]

The 2009 Lexus is220d that my daughter bought is fitted with a turbo, is that u usual? I ask because I want to take off the EGR to give it a good clean and have been looking at a few you tube videos, all of which show the part that is fitted on top of the egr with 2 nuts has the pipe from it exiting towards the rear of the engine. On my daughters car it faces towards the front. I am curious as to why the difference?

What would a good cleaning fluid to use to clean out the carbon. I saw a before and afer test using a well known egr cleaner, used in accordance with the instructions and there was no difference at all. 
I was hoping that there is a preferred fluid to get rid of the carbon?

 

[Linas.P]

Most of diesel cars made in last 30 years are Turbo-Diesel... so no it is not unusual... NA diesels haven't been made since late 80s.

EGR will require a lot of "mechanical" help to clean... so in principle just soak it with WD40... then scrub scrub scrub with all sort of brushes and maybe occasional screwdriver and then just blast what remains with brake cleaner. If I am not mistaken EGR body is aluminium, so don't destroyed it with steel brushes.

There are dedicated sprays which supposedly melts carbon build-up, but they are meant for thin layers of carbon on valves and cylinder walls, not literal bags full of soot.

That is more or less what the engine should look like:

[Spock66]

26 minutes ago, Heliwilly said:

What would a good cleaning fluid to use to clean out the carbon. I saw a before and afer test using a well known egr cleaner, used in accordance with the instructions and there was no difference at all. 

I'd suggest trying carb cleaner, good for baked on soot in my experience.

[Heliwilly]

Linas P, On this car of my daughters, the egr is in the same place, but in the diagram you shared the tube that comes out of egr vertically and the bends to the rear of the engine, bends to the front of the car on my daughters???

[Linas.P]

I have checked again and it seems workshop manual has a picture of left hand drive car (quite common for that to be the case in manuals). Maybe it in right hand drive car it goes other way... I guess right hand drive IS220d owners will have to confirm.

[Heliwilly]

Linas P, On this car of my daughters, the egr is in the same place, but in the diagram you shared the tube that comes out of egr vertically and the bends to the rear of the engine, bends to the front of the car on my daughters???

[Heliwilly]

I am still trying to understand the workings of this egr. I understand the principle of it, taking a portion of the exhaust gas and feeding it back into the inlet manifold to reduce nitrous oxide being expelled out of the exhaust. How does this work on the lexus? Where, on the egr is the exhaust gas input and where is the output? All information gratefully received. Thanks.

Bill W.

[Shahpor]

That looks like someone has bypassed the EGR altogether.

There are a couple of picture if you scroll down this thread:

Not recommended for emissions reasons, bur supposedly makes the car run better.

[Heliwilly]

Hi Shahpor, The way the pipework looks in the thread you recommended look exactly the same as are in my daughters car. Looks like the EGR has been bypassed!!!!

Bill W.

[Linas.P]

20 hours ago, Shahpor said:

That looks like someone has bypassed the EGR altogether.

There are a couple of picture if you scroll down this thread:

Not recommended for emissions reasons, bur supposedly makes the car run better.

Wouldn't that just put more soot into DPF, sort of pushing the issue further and making it more costly at later date? It seems MOT does not check EGR if this car passed, but generally not acceptable solution.

I guess my point is that EGR delete only makes sense together with DPF delete, which as discussed is highly immoral and highly illegal... 

OP - I think you should check if your car still has DPF, as that might not be there either... 

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, dking22 said:

Very lucky if someone already deleted egr and dpf. a trouble free car 😁

Yeah... and basically scrap. Because you can't drive it on the road. 

[Chizabc]

Tell that to the 10s of 1000s of people driving diesels with DPF/EGR deletes 🤣🤣🤣.

You can argue that its immoral and illegal, but to claim its basically scrap because the DPF has been gutted is ludicrous.

 

[Linas.P]

28 minutes ago, Chizabc said:

Tell that to the 10s of 1000s of people driving diesels with DPF/EGR deletes 🤣🤣🤣.

You can argue that its immoral and illegal, but to claim its basically scrap because the DPF has been gutted is ludicrous.

First of all they shouldn't be driving and there is nothing to be proud of... it is like saying there are people fly tipping, throwing tyres into bushes and pouring used oil into the rivers. There are penalties for this sort of thing, sadly not harsh enough and not enforced enough. And thanks to "10s of 1000s" doing it we may end-up all losing rights to drive the cars altogether... still feel proud of it?

As for car without DPF being scrap... is not as ludicrous as it sounds... if you get your DPF stolen from IS220d, the insurance will 100% write it off... and even if you insist on keeping it most likely the car is not going to be economical repair. It is approximately £1000 for OE part (used original £500, even aftermarket ones are like £300-400), add fitting to that, add fixing EGR to what it suppose to be and we arrive to the price of £1500... which is more or less what IS220d is worth. So it is uneconomical repair and would be scrapped by anyone with any standards... for example no used car dealer would touch it, because it would be illegal to sell (not road worthy car). Basically, if any car dealer would buy it by mistake and realise that is the case they would list it as "spares and repair" for £500, because it just can't be sold as road legal car. 

Now sure in reality there are all kinds of dodgy dealers, but they all have a risk ending-up like a well know Dudley guy... and that is £10,000 fine and suspended jail time for fraud. Not exactly the risk I would take to flip £1500 worth of car for £100 profit.

[Chizabc]

4 hours ago, Linas.P said:

First of all they shouldn't be driving and there is nothing to be proud of... it is like saying there are people fly tipping, throwing tyres into bushes and pouring used oil into the rivers. There are penalties for this sort of thing, sadly not harsh enough and not enforced enough. And thanks to "10s of 1000s" doing it we may end-up all losing rights to drive the cars altogether... still feel proud of it?

As for car without DPF being scrap... is not as ludicrous as it sounds... if you get your DPF stolen from IS220d, the insurance will 100% write it off... and even if you insist on keeping it most likely the car is not going to be economical repair. It is approximately £1000 for OE part (used original £500, even aftermarket ones are like £300-400), add fitting to that, add fixing EGR to what it suppose to be and we arrive to the price of £1500... which is more or less what IS220d is worth. So it is uneconomical repair and would be scrapped by anyone with any standards... for example no used car dealer would touch it, because it would be illegal to sell (not road worthy car). Basically, if any car dealer would buy it by mistake and realise that is the case they would list it as "spares and repair" for £500, because it just can't be sold as road legal car. 

Now sure in reality there are all kinds of dodgy dealers, but they all have a risk ending-up like a well know Dudley guy... and that is £10,000 fine and suspended jail time for fraud. Not exactly the risk I would take to flip £1500 worth of car for £100 profit.

Where did I indicate it was something to be proud of? I didn't, I said that many people do it and drive their cars perfectly happily, so the idea that this car would be instant scrap because the DPF is gutted is nonsensical.

Making false equivalencies that driving a diesel car with DPF gutted is somehow comparable to dumping used oil in a river shows just how moronic/one-eyed your viewpoint is.

Again, I'm not arguing for the morality of driving a car without a DPF, I'm just stating that if this particular car has its DPF gutted, it will most likely pass MOT fine and in all probability, it will drive better, and be more reliable than a comparable car with its DPF intact.

[Mr Vlad]

A good few years back I had a 2.0l diesel Ford mondeo. The first mondeo I ever had. 140bhp but was a bit gutless. After reading a post on the Ford forum I went to the same place for an egr gutting and remap. Transformed the car. Oh it passed 2 MOT'S after with no advisories. The MOT hasn't changed since and I haven't heard of any car failing one after a 'proper' dpf delete. By proper is the seam removed the inners removed and the seam re welded.

Your personal views towards this Linas are your personal views and yes they upset/wind up others. 

[Linas.P]

On 2/25/2023 at 2:54 AM, Chizabc said:

Where did I indicate it was something to be proud of? I didn't, I said that many people do it and drive their cars perfectly happily, so the idea that this car would be instant scrap because the DPF is gutted is nonsensical.

Making false equivalencies that driving a diesel car with DPF gutted is somehow comparable to dumping used oil in a river shows just how moronic/one-eyed your viewpoint is.

Again, I'm not arguing for the morality of driving a car without a DPF, I'm just stating that if this particular car has its DPF gutted, it will most likely pass MOT fine and in all probability, it will drive better, and be more reliable than a comparable car with its DPF intact.

Oh... so dumping cancer causing pollution into the air and causing cancer is NOT equivalent to dumping oil into the river? If you not arguing with the mortality then what are you arguing about? By the tone of your comment it sounds like "it is okey to kill other people around you" just because you can't be bothered to maintain your car. 

Having no DPF is literally worse than dumping tyres, or oil to the river.... because that mostly stay in the river, it may hurt wildlife, but it does not hurt other people unless they happen to use water from that river  - soot and particulate matter literally poisons everyone around you! It is you who is moronic and single minded if you don't get basic things like this.

On 2/25/2023 at 12:27 PM, Mr Vlad said:

A good few years back I had a 2.0l diesel Ford mondeo. The first mondeo I ever had. 140bhp but was a bit gutless. After reading a post on the Ford forum I went to the same place for an egr gutting and remap. Transformed the car. Oh it passed 2 MOT'S after with no advisories. The MOT hasn't changed since and I haven't heard of any car failing one after a 'proper' dpf delete. By proper is the seam removed the inners removed and the seam re welded.

Your personal views towards this Linas are your personal views and yes they upset/wind up others. 

Law is not personal view mate... that is before we even consider morality of it. 

You have a little bit less gutless car at the cost of what exactly? killing people around you? What do you think it is some sort of joke? 

Sure NOx isn't confirmed to be the cause of health issues it is just "suspected", same for CO2 - it is not directly causing any harm (inert gas otherwise). But soot and ppm below 2.5nm is 100% cancerogenic - when you breath it in it is small enough to dissolve in the blood and cause cancer. As well it never leaves our bodies, so if you ever breath it in, it stay in your body until death, there is no way to remove it. DPF is specifically fitted to diesel cars to filter it out and burn it out to less harmful CO2.

So no - it is not personal opinion - people who do it should be brought in front of their families and shot in the face... maybe that will teach them the lesson! 

[Chizabc]

 

I never said it was morally good, I just said that his car is not gonna necessarily fail MOT and be scrap just because his DPF is gutted.

 

[Linas.P]

11 hours ago, Chizabc said:

 

Power stations do not blow ppm into your face (besides they should have filters as well, whenever they have is another matter), the diesel cars without DPF on the road does! So there is difference here.

Carbon dioxide is not toxic, it may be cause for climate change, but it is not cancerogenic in itself - soot and ppm are cancerogenic by themselves. So it is you who trolling here!

You never said it is morally bad - and that is the same as saying it is good, there is nothing in your comment to suggest you are against it, so therefore you are in support of it.

Gutted DPF/EGR is MOT fail - £1000-2500 fine as well as per Road vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 2000 61A.3.1. So I suggest you get into grips of reality before posting shaite yourself!

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/diesel-particulate-filters-guidance-note/diesel-particulate-filters

[Spacewagon52]

Please can we calm this a bit chaps.

[Chizabc]

They emit it into the environment, ergo blowing it into your face.

I never said fishing is morally bad either, doesn't mean I think its morally good.

I don't have an opinion on the morality of it, I don't really care if I'm honest. The fact is there are much bigger causative agents of carcinogen release that we should be more worried about.

If the DPF is gutted, it will not be picked up on MOT, so how will the car be instant scrap? As I said, you are scaremongering.