What's the problem with electric vehicles

[Mincey]

The thoughts of Rowan Atkinson: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/03/electric-vehicles-early-adopter-petrol-car-ev-environment-rowan-atkinson

[Las Palmas]

9 minutes ago, Mincey said:

The thoughts of Rowan Atkinson: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/03/electric-vehicles-early-adopter-petrol-car-ev-environment-rowan-atkinson

Mr. Bean plays a fool in a brilliant way, and though having read that he has an IQ a lot above normal, he was slow to realize that batteries are a stupid way to store electric power.

Better late than never.

[Las Palmas]

Did not tell you, that what he mentions, is what I have been writing since a couple of years now.

I have been harsh claiming that politicians are all corrupt and idiots when telling us that the only way to go is to put a Battery in a car and all will be fine, but was I wrong?

I have not been speaking kind about people claiming that EV cars are the solution and they did not believe me. But was I wrong?

I have mentioned that many of the engines in the existing fleet of autos can have their engines rebuild to be used on other fuel types. Was I wrong?

Sorry to now say that common, general IQ is the biggest problem for human race.

[Mr Vlad]

2 hours ago, Mincey said:

The thoughts of Rowan Atkinson: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/03/electric-vehicles-early-adopter-petrol-car-ev-environment-rowan-atkinson

This is perhaps the outright Best article on cars to date. Presented articulately and in a language anyone can understand. 

Mr R Atkinson deserves a huge thanks from us 'petrolheads' and a massive pat on the back.

I just hope those thick headed brain dead politicians read that article and take note.

[Las Palmas]

41 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

This is perhaps the outright Best article on cars to date. Presented articulately and in a language anyone can understand. 

Mr R Atkinson deserves a huge thanks from us 'petrolheads' and a massive pat on the back.

I just hope those thick headed brain dead politicians read that article and take note.

Just hope.

Hope in one hand and spit in the other and see which hand you get most in.

[Las Palmas]

Let me first admit that this has very little to do with errors or faults on electric cars, but since Mr. Bean and The Guardian entered praising other ways to store power here in this thread it just might be OK anyway.

 

 

Unleashing the Power: Liquid Hydrogen Fuels Debut Race Car

By FRANKIE WALLACE      https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/author/frankiew/

The H2-powered Toyota Corolla has completed a 24-hour race at the Fuji International Speedway

Toyota brought its liquid hydrogen fuelled Corolla to the Fuji International Speedway in Oyama, Shizuoka Prefecture in Japan, representing the first time a race car in any race worldwide has been powered by liquified H2.

Toyota is using the race car to learn more about its operation than is available through research.

The liquid hydrogen Toyota Corolla completed the 24-hour race, providing the automaker with invaluable data.  The extreme conditions provided by racing offer the automaker insight into issues that can occur with the vehicle that aren’t possible in conventional research.  The goal of this use of the race car is to learn enough to accelerate commercial sale development.

Toyota has already entered races using H2-powered Corollas. That said, those cars were powered by the fuel in its gas form. This began in May 2021.  That said, by switching from gas to liquified H2, there is greater energy density within the same fuel tank volume. This one change doubled the vehicle’s range.

 

Toyota hopes to use what it learns about liquid hydrogen cars to broaden decarbonization options.

“The potential for engine-based decarbonization will expand,” said Toyota President Koji Sato at a recent media conference. “There are still many challenges for mass production, but breakthroughs can be found in the field.”

 

The race car used a hydrogen internal combustion engine (ICE) not unsimilar to the configuration of vehicles with gasoline-powered engines. This is unlike the fuel cells that power the Mirai and other H2 gas-powered vehicles.

Fuel cell vehicles run on electricity generated using H2. With an ICE design, the car uses many parts and technologies common in gasoline ICE vehicles, only they are fueled by H2 instead.

Liquid hydrogen challenges

Among the primary challenges of working with liquid hydrogen is that the fuel has to be kept colder than -253ºC. This requires additional technology for the fuel pumps as well as other components.

Toyota had intended to make a race in March the first time it used this race car. However, an engine room fire during a test run meant that the vehicle had to be withdrawn close to the last minute. The automaker used that experience to make modifications to the vehicle, which made it possible to participate in this most recent race.

 

[Las Palmas]

Congratulation

Greenland

You have the first (to my knowledge) government doing what was promised before election.

Previous governments have corrupted your country with allowing polluting it.

The previous Danish governments have permitted the US to make air base in Thule and the radioactive pollution made there has never really been done anything to clean up. Costly and so far, far, away.

Previous governments have permitted a company to search for minerals in the ground and they have found abundance of the precious minerals that are needed in batteries, laptops, magnets, military equipment (fighter jets), rocket science, smartphones and windmills. Enough to make the country (and of course the company) extremely rich.

Unfortunately, such riches in minerals are sometimes / often found together with other stuff, such as Thorium, and Uranium, not that uranium ore is not something that can be sold. But it is making it maybe not possible or at least economically viable to get out of the ground without damaging / destroying the land.

So, the brave government made a law prohibiting digging where it will be likely that the surrounding area will be damaged by radioactivity. Strange as it will only be damaged in 10 – 20 thousand years, what is that compared to immense riches?

The company (Energy Transition Minerals) that has searched for minerals and spend money on doing that are of course not happy and will take the case to court. The area called Kuannersuit has one of the maybe biggest amount and concentration of precious minerals, Iit thus looks like the death knell for a project that has caused great debate in Greenland in recent years.

Because although Kuannersuit (in Danish = Kvanefjeld) contains valuable minerals, which Greenland could make a fortune from, and which could contribute to the country's economic independence, the mountain also contains radioactive substances, which in the worst case can / will cause catastrophic damage to the environment.

I wish the government of Greenland luck. They will need it. They will be fought by politicians from more than one country and remember that being corrupt and greedy are virtues for politicians.

Here are a few pictures of what the US left on Greenland and have no interest whatsoever to clean, It may not be possible to clean the radioactive materials that are now down in the ground and below-lying water.

[ganzoom]

23 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

This is perhaps the outright Best article on cars to date. Presented articulately and in a language anyone can understand. 

Mr R Atkinson deserves a huge thanks from us 'petrolheads' and a massive pat on the back.

I just hope those thick headed brain dead politicians read that article and take note.

The best point about the article is recognition that ALL CARS are the problem, regardless of how they are powered.

We returned from our half term holiday from Scotland this weekend, it took nearly 9hrs to cover just 330 miles.

This wasn't because of our EV, but because there are so many cars are the roads everywhere where even 3/4 Lane Mways became car parks.

We ofcourse added to the 'problem', was there a real 'need' for us to travel to Scotland for a holiday - ofcourse not. But with personal transportation so cheap why wouldn't you??

The real irony is Scotland was experiencing unusually warm weather - 24 degrees. But instead of thinking, maybe we are contributing to global warning with unnecessary travel, my thought was - If Scotland warmed up, it would be a great holiday destination all year round!!!

The answer to the 'problem' of EVs, is actually very clear, cheap personal transportation is simply not sustainable in anyway or form. But as long as we all have air con and our own homes don't get flooded, most us really don't care enough to modify our behaviour.

 

[Mr Vlad]

Yes Scotland is a fabulous place to visit. Dependant on time of travel there it takes just over 4.5 hours from Manchester to Edinburgh in a truck at 02.30am. But because of the return trip 'home' it usually takes between 6 and 8 hours back. M6 is a wonderful road but ruddy hell it's full of morons making it rubbish for the rest of us.

Yes that article mentioned All methods of fuelling travel. It also mentioned being duped into buying BEV. You've chosen the tesla for your own personal reasons which is fine. But where I feel disheartened by BEV owners is they don't give a rats ***** about how the batteries got made. If they did then no BEV's would be sold. That's how I personally see it and why I'd Never go BEV even if it did make economic sense which actually it doesn't now.

[Las Palmas]

23 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Yes that article mentioned All methods of fuelling travel. It also mentioned being duped into buying BEV. You've chosen the tesla for your own personal reasons which is fine. But where I feel disheartened by BEV owners is they don't give a rats ***** about how the batteries got made. If they did then no BEV's would be sold. That's how I personally see it and why I'd Never go BEV even if it did make economic sense which actually it doesn't now.

Which is why everybody should applaud the government in Greenland for risking a hefty fine for not allowing exploitation and destruction of their country. Any government in the world is supposed to take care of their country and their people and so far, no other government in the world have cared the least about doing just that.

The government in Greenland is also risking a lot of other consequences and will definitely be blamed by many influential people.

Hope they are able to keep those exploiting out of the country and throw away the influence from Denmark that has never done anything good to the country. All Denmark has done is to try to bullish and alcoholise them, take the fish and their children in order to make them good Danes and tell the people there that it is OK to let US have bases there and destroy the country. Stupid Trumpet wanted to buy the island.

[DavidCM]

Hydrogen cars don't have to look like a Toyota Mirai...the latest from Alpine(being a Renault you'd better go for extended warranty).

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, DavidCM said:

Hydrogen cars don't have to look like a Toyota Mirai...the latest from Alpine(being a Renault you'd better go for extended warranty).

Sweet design.

Not many roads are well enough for such a low-lying speedster.

[toffee_pie]

Its pretty obvious that the problem with EVs is not the non existent fumes getting emmited from the rear of the vehicle but the abhorrent manufacturing process involved in making even a single one - you see people having an EV but requiring another combustion car to do long trips -  - if it makes you carbon neutral and you can afford the monthly payments I guess it will make your life more comfortable in the end.

[Mr Vlad]

Can't see someone with a BEV and an ICE car being carbon neutral. For one the, as you oh so correctly put, abhorrent mining of precious minerals metals etc to manufacture the batteries costs what around 70% more than producing an ICE car. What did Volvo say? It'll take about 10 years of running the BEV before it starts to become carbon neutral. 

Now because I'm a working class fella my view is those with a BEV and an ICE car are rich snobs or lottery winners which in that case good on them.

[DBIZO]

21 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

Its pretty obvious that the problem with EVs is not the non existent fumes getting emmited from the rear of the vehicle but the abhorrent manufacturing process involved in making even a single one - you see people having an EV but requiring another combustion car to do long trips -  - if it makes you carbon neutral and you can afford the monthly payments I guess it will make your life more comfortable in the end.

Carbon neutral, as in how? In absolute emissions terms, there is no such thing as carbon neutral transport, and that includes legging the distance. Unless your diet is tree bark. It's quite a perversion when EVs theoretical carbon benefit gets bigger the more miles you drive them, the equivalent when retailers say the more you spend the more you save. It's a false choice fallacy in two ways: 1) these comparisons ignore that a lot of the miles are optional, people could chose to drive less, and keep their cars longer, which would actually reduce emissions by many tonnes per year per household 2) EVs likely encourage higher-mileage driving behaviour for often beneficial mileage cost, further encouraged by the sustainability myth.

Besides, careful with the EVs, no fumes = clean air implication. A modern petrol, and even diesel cars are so heavily filtered that very little amounts of particles escape. Research has found that rubber dust is orders of magnitude bigger a problem. And the tyre emission problem gets worse with EVs.

An ongoing research based out of the UK suggests particles from EV rubber can be much higher, about 20% on average, that of engine cars due to higher loads but also because of higher torque will wear the tyre faster.
 

EVs make air quality worse, maybe except in central London where the traffic is very slow stop and go.

[Las Palmas]

10 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

Can't see someone with a BEV and an ICE car being carbon neutral. For one the, as you oh so correctly put, abhorrent mining of precious minerals metals etc to manufacture the batteries costs what around 70% more than producing an ICE car. What did Volvo say? It'll take about 10 years of running the BEV before it starts to become carbon neutral. 

Now because I'm a working class fella my view is those with a BEV and an ICE car are rich snobs or lottery winners which in that case good on them.

No sure I will call them snobs. Rather people that care nothing about environment and what they will leave to coming generations or somebody plain stupid that believe everything they are told by politicians, which mean they are not just stupid but also naive.

Only one country has so far had  politicians that actually did (at least they are still trying but being fought by powerful enemies) what they promised before being elected. Greenland that has one of the largest sources for minerals to many things, but the new government promised to make it illegal to dig out if that at the same time would hurt the environment. Unlucky for the mining company there are lots of radioactive materials next to the minerals so the promise the government now have made law is making enemies with lots of funds and such is dangerous. All other countries should be ashamed of what they are doing, but they have no such feelings as all that count is money!

On 6/4/2023 at 8:02 AM, Las Palmas said:

Congratulation

Greenland

You have the first (to my knowledge) government doing what was promised before election.

Previous governments have corrupted your country with allowing polluting it.

The previous Danish governments have permitted the US to make air base in Thule and the radioactive pollution made there has never really been done anything to clean up. Costly and so far, far, away.

Previous governments have permitted a company to search for minerals in the ground and they have found abundance of the precious minerals that are needed in batteries, laptops, magnets, military equipment (fighter jets), rocket science, smartphones and windmills. Enough to make the country (and of course the company) extremely rich.

Unfortunately, such riches in minerals are sometimes / often found together with other stuff, such as Thorium, and Uranium, not that uranium ore is not something that can be sold. But it is making it maybe not possible or at least economically viable to get out of the ground without damaging / destroying the land.

So, the brave government made a law prohibiting digging where it will be likely that the surrounding area will be damaged by radioactivity. Strange as it will only be damaged in 10 – 20 thousand years, what is that compared to immense riches?

The company (Energy Transition Minerals) that has searched for minerals and spend money on doing that are of course not happy and will take the case to court. The area called Kuannersuit has one of the maybe biggest amount and concentration of precious minerals, Iit thus looks like the death knell for a project that has caused great debate in Greenland in recent years.

Because although Kuannersuit (in Danish = Kvanefjeld) contains valuable minerals, which Greenland could make a fortune from, and which could contribute to the country's economic independence, the mountain also contains radioactive substances, which in the worst case can / will cause catastrophic damage to the environment.

I wish the government of Greenland luck. They will need it. They will be fought by politicians from more than one country and remember that being corrupt and greedy are virtues for politicians.

Here are a few pictures of what the US left on Greenland and have no interest whatsoever to clean, It may not be possible to clean the radioactive materials that are now down in the ground and below-lying water.

[ganzoom]

54 minutes ago, DBIZO said:

 

An ongoing research based out of the UK suggests particles from EV rubber can be much higher, about 20% on average, that of engine cars due to higher loads but also because of higher torque will wear the tyre faster.
 

EVs make air quality worse, maybe except in central London where the traffic is very slow stop and go.

 

You cannot be serious? Or are you?

The tires on our 2.5ton EV lasts 20k+ miles. Tires on my old BMW 335i barely made it past 10k, and my only DC2 Integra Type R barely 8k. 

My last two combustion cars also chewed through brake pads+discs every 15k or so, the EV has needed only one set of new pads+discs in over 65k miles.

 

[ganzoom]

57 minutes ago, DBIZO said:

EVs likely encourage higher-mileage driving behaviour for often beneficial mileage cost, further encouraged by the sustainability myth.

We do loads of unnecessary miles in our EV, but not because I believe in tree hugging, but because I have access to FREE charging forever on the current car.

Just planning our summer road trip to Italy, on the way back will swing by Stelvio :).

I personally didnt buy an EV to be green, I bought one because it let's me run a sub 5 second to 60mph SUV for less money than our IS300H. Why woudlnt you drive it everywhere if you had essentially free fuel :).

 

[DBIZO]

21 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

 

You cannot be serious? Or are you?

The tires on our 2.5ton EV lasts 20k+ miles. Tires on my old BMW 335i barely made it past 10k, and my only DC2 Integra Type R barely 8k. 

My last two combustion cars also chewed through brake pads+discs every 15k or so, the EV has needed only one set of new pads+discs in over 65k miles.

 

I'm merely quoting a multi-year study that's based on measurements. I should have linked but forgot. The most recent release on their data: How tyre emissions hide in plain sight — Emissions Analytics

 

Three points:

- Wear is not the same as tyre particle emissions (colloquially rubber dust); emissions is part of the wearing process, but still.

- I can only suspect you're not really comparing similar tyres, a suspect those were performance tyres? 

- The choice is not between BEVs and pure combustion; a decent hybrid doesn't 'chew through' brakes pads and discs either, if you drive sensibly, quite the opposite, but I suspect you already know that.

[DBIZO]

25 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

We do loads of unnecessary miles in our EV, but not because I believe in tree hugging, but because I have access to FREE charging forever on the current car.

Just planning our summer road trip to Italy, on the way back will swing by Stelvio :).

I personally didnt buy an EV to be green, I bought one because it let's me run a sub 5 second to 60mph SUV for less money than our IS300H. Why woudlnt you drive it everywhere if you had essentially free fuel :).

 

That's dandy but the problem is, EVs are favoured by all sorts of policy, and heavily subsidized through tax relief and no duty paid on 'fuel', on account of green credentials.

[Las Palmas]

11 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

Can't see someone with a BEV and an ICE car being carbon neutral. For one the, as you oh so correctly put, abhorrent mining of precious minerals metals etc to manufacture the batteries costs what around 70% more than producing an ICE car. What did Volvo say? It'll take about 10 years of running the BEV before it starts to become carbon neutral. 

Now because I'm a working class fella my view is those with a BEV and an ICE car are rich snobs or lottery winners which in that case good on them.

I wonder from where Volvo will get the electricity in order to call a car carbon neutral if it has been running 10 years. If they sell the car in Germany more than 30% of electricity in that country is made from burning coal (lignite).

Meaning that all charging their EV's in Germany are doing what they can to pollute.

[dutchie01]

13 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

According to the Global Energy Monitor in India and China they will open 700 new coalburners or 3 a week.

whatever we do or dont do in the west will be a drop in the ocean. That of course does not mean we can carry on as usual but only on a truly international scale this can be tackled. However people will have different priorities in different countries like providing food for the family or getting a job. In this part of the world we have the luxury that we do have all so we can glue ourselves to tarmac or throw soup at paintings. Better to do that in China i think.

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

 we can glue ourselves to tarmac or throw soup at paintings. Better to do that in China i think.

You think ! ? ? ?

Committing suicide will help a lot?

Better tell the idiots that bought EV's because they were given a lot from stupid governments, that the claim they came with first : That they bought electric cars to save the planet was nothing but stupid people talking and that they might have been not knowing what damage Li-Ion excavating and manufacturing does to the planet, but that today there is no such excuse as it has been told often enough that our corrupt governments are just not wanting to admit that they were bribed into their politics and ideas that we have electricity and batteries and nothing is the problem. Those politicians are now having no excuse for not knowing what they have done, but so far only one government in the world is against excavating rare minerals if doing that cause danger for the planet:

BRAVO GREENLAND

[dutchie01]

Pffff thesame broken record time and again. I am out

[Las Palmas]

19 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

Pffff thesame broken record time and again. I am out

Good to see. Will not miss you.

Yes. and all other countries continue to go on as planned due to nobody care about what will happen to the planet and how we leave it to our children.