What's the problem with electric vehicles

[Linas.P]

As I have said, I am neither pro, nor anti-BEV... but where I see ******* I say it is ******* and when somebody points out that "statisticalllyy BEVs being less likely to set themselves on fire" I just point out that it doesn't add-up. They have pros and they have cons, being easy to put out when they go bust isn't one of the pros for sure. As well I would like to point out that it is "mostly" Teslas that burn, but maybe that is as well flawed statistics because Teslas are the most common type of long range BEVs and they as well most likely to be sensationalised. But to say they are safer than ICE is just not true either.

Risks exist everywhere, but to bur alive in your BEV is probably out there with shark attacks... just not the thing that happens often enough to justify a fear. That said I definitely would not want to be firefighter trying to put one out!

[toffee_pie]

19 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

As I have said, I am neither pro, nor anti-BEV... but where I see ******* I say it is ******* and when somebody points out that "statisticalllyy BEVs being less likely to set themselves on fire" I just point out that it doesn't add-up. They have pros and they have cons, being easy to put out when they go bust isn't one of the pros for sure. As well I would like to point out that it is "mostly" Teslas that burn, but maybe that is as well flawed statistics because Teslas are the most common type of long range BEVs and they as well most likely to be sensationalised. But to say they are safer than ICE is just not true either.

Risks exist everywhere, but to bur alive in your BEV is probably out there with shark attacks... just not the thing that happens often enough to justify a fear. That said I definitely would not want to be firefighter trying to put one out!

Risks are more likely with an electric car because batteries can spontaneously combust at any given moment. Firefighters hate them and all that nasty chemicals isn't good.

 

[wharfhouse]

The start of a hydrogen fuel cell alternative is starting to take shape with this roll out in the UK of hydrogen fuel stations no more than 100 miles apart - focused on commercial vehicles first but open to cars too. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/hydrogen-back-menu-uk-fuel-infrastructure-takes-shape

[ganzoom]

13 hours ago, wharfhouse said:

The start of a hydrogen fuel cell alternative is starting to take shape with this roll out in the UK of hydrogen fuel stations no more than 100 miles apart - focused on commercial vehicles first but open to cars too. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/hydrogen-back-menu-uk-fuel-infrastructure-takes-shape

So does mean some of the pro hydrogen fans on this forum are finally going to man-up and take action versus keep on talking hot air :).

[Mr Vlad]

Gang. Not many talk hot air on this forum. As for me. Yes I'm all for hydrogen for vehicle propulsion. I'm not anti EV but I hate the thought of it being thrust down my throat. I'm absolutely pro petrol and diesel propulsion for cars.

The infrastructure for hydrogen is certainly on an upward motion but it will take time.

Each method of vehicle propulsion has its merits. Again me it makes sense to have an EV but I can't justify or afford the cost.

[toffee_pie]

EVs reek of skulduggery behaviour and going on, most likely NDA agreements protect against anything from leaking into mainstream media

 

[dutchie01]

15 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

EVs reek of skulduggery behaviour and going on, most likely NDA agreements protect against anything from leaking into mainstream media

 

Oh dear, you seem pretty paranoid. 
i wonder if there are any owners of the UX electric that can tell us their experiences of driving on a daily basis. Anyone?

[toffee_pie]

40 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

Oh dear, you seem pretty paranoid. 
i wonder if there are any owners of the UX electric that can tell us their experiences of driving on a daily basis. Anyone?

Oh dear, you again. 

Covid deniers, that's what you folks say isn't it, everything they said is not a lie, politicians are up to their eyeballs with lawyers now - look at the state of them

The problem is that people are brainwashed into this communism regime taking grip on the western world- electric cars are more skulduggery, ULEZ zones cycle lanes 20mph limits flower beds taking up parking space - anyone with half a brain can see all isn't quite right. Or maybe I'm just too paranoid - to you it's perfectly normal. 

Combustion engine cars account for less than 1 percent of global greenhouse gases in the UK anyway so let me go for a drive in my 3 litre petrol and see all the dead bodies, I can't sleep at night knowing what I am doing.

Wait for them riots to kick off, the world is getting divided into a tiered society which is ironic as that's the entire plan. On one side you have people who's brains are full of brainwashing ideology,  that's you clearly and on the other half you have people who are saying wtfurk is going on with everything.

BTW there's ample coverage all over the interweb and YT about people who aren't happy with electric cars, but like I said a few days ago all we seem to hear on mainstream media is the good stuff.  

I can lease out a 50k EV tomorrow, no problem but what good would it ever do me, absolutely nothing is the answer. I would be forever paying that thing off and like the Porsche Taycan guy on YT said you will never own them cars. Zero benefit to me 

[dutchie01]

and now for something completely different.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-delays-vote-combustion-engine-phaseout-after-german-pushback-2023-03-03/

 

 

[toffee_pie]

There should have been a referendum in the first place but govs thought that they can ban combustion engine cars made since the 1800s in a two minute climate change speech - I suspect it will be pretty challenging to get what they want with the hundreds of millions of combustion engine cars in the world.

[Mr Vlad]

That YouTube guy with the Porsche taycan he's called Lee. I've stopped watching him because I think he's a fraud. Nearly a year ago he swore blind he's getting rid of the Taycan for a petrol Cayman. Blimey he even did a video with the journey to swap cars but low and behold months later he's still driving the Taycan. He's two faced and stupidly unrealistic. He deliberately goes out of his way to slag off a car I believe he actually loves. Possibly an ulterior motive to stop folk buying EV'S so what chargers are out there are enough and he doesn't have to wait.

Great news and well done Germany for delaying the rollox of banning ice cars.

[toffee_pie]

Number of cars without MOTs on UK roads is set to hit all-time high as cost-of-living crisis bites, research shows..

If people can't afford a MOT there isn't much hope getting an electric car - it's a control thing absolutely.

No idea who that Lee guy is but you can see articles on the bad side of them all over, it's just that it won't make mainstream media, just like that tainted city on wired - will that be on the BBC, no chance.

 

 

[toffee_pie]

Gone quiet - but people can’t help but see the 'banking crisis' - its more skullduggery - and goes back to what I said long ago about crashing global economies - a meltdown - starting in the USA of course with its dollar in order to bring in a digital currency - the BoE have been developing this for years as have all the western economies, all they need is an excuse to bring it out. 

Everything essentially goes back to that UN Rio Summit meeting in 1992 - unfortunately many can’t see past this nonsense going on which is all to do with carbon credits and control of your movement, wealth and freedom - the folks saying what is wrong with digital currency just have no idea - EVs are just part of this future taking shape - like people need to spend 50k to get from A to B.

Govs have essentially used Net Zero as an excuse to get whatever they want and people are sleep walking into a dystopian matrix

[Mr Vlad]

Not sure if this thread suits what I'm about to say but hey it's my thread and I'm knackered but with all this utter rollox about ULEZ clean air zone rollox but what the hell are those poor folk in London who use the busses to get around only to find 15 or so routes have been axed !!!! What are they meant to do? Get an EV? I don't cocoa. Get on a bicycle? Doubt it. Use a car? Probably. Oh and get stung for that so called clean air tax. It's a tax on the poor and who ever devised this tax needs horse drawn and quartered. The evil bar steward.

[Glyn Jennings]

What bothers me about electric cars most apart from the high initial cost and the depreciation as they get older because people want the latest technology is charging when you go on holiday. Ever year I rent a cottage in Cornwall and by the time I would arrive in an electric car it would need charging. The cottage has no outside power connection and I am also LED to believe if you charge via a normal 3 pin socket that can put a strain on the electric circuit causing overheating. The other alternative is to find a proper charging point.  Bearing in mind the amount of cottages and other accommodation, the number people needing to charge their car in peak holiday periods is going to be phenomenal and that's not what I want when I go on holiday..

[Glyn Jennings]

5 hours ago, Glyn Jennings said:

What bothers me about electric cars most apart from the high initial cost and the depreciation as they get older because people want the latest technology is charging when you go on holiday. Ever year I rent a cottage in Cornwall and by the time I would arrive in an electric car it would need charging. The cottage has no outside power connection and I am also led to believe if you charge via a normal 3 pin socket that can put a strain on the electric circuit causing overheating. The other alternative is to find a proper charging point.  Bearing in mind the amount of cottages and other accommodation, the number people needing to charge their car in peak holiday periods is going to be phenomenal and that's not what I want when I go on holiday..

[toffee_pie]

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/will-the-2030-ban-on-petrol-and-diesel-be-pushed-back-heres-why-car-dealers-bosses-think-it-will/281367

I love the way your guy comments

Tom Barnard, editor of EV website Electrifying.com, told Car Dealer that he thinks it may already be too late to change the date of the ban – and doing so would be ‘crazy’.

‘Car makers have a long history of trying to fight against legislation that will cost them money, even if it’s for the greater good,’ he told Car Dealer.

‘Think of CFCs in air conditioning, lead in petrol, catalysts and asbestos brakes. Change is difficult, but they adapt and move on, and it would seem crazy to go back.’

Barnard said it would be ‘unfair for the heel-draggers’ to push the deadline back, but that he thought hybrids could be the saving grace for the industry.

Do these guys think batteries grow on trees? I was with some friends last weekened and EVs were discused a bit, when I said a EV has about 400/500kg of lithium batteries per car one guy said - really, i didnt know that.  Tom should have said, hang on a minute combustion engines cars account for less than 1 percent of global greenhouse gases in the UK - what is the problem here exactly.

With EVs no one is ever goiing to tell you anything but what they want you to know

And this is a great article as posted before

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/workers-are-dying-in-the-ev-industrys-tainted-city

[toffee_pie]

The skulduggery goes on at night all over the country

knocking listed building, 100 year old trees, putting up flower beds, squiggle lines, concrete, cameras and general climate bs - it would be funny if it was a joke

[Mr Vlad]

Well said Eric. 

That Barnard bloke. I'd love to fire a bullet though his head. What a self centred pillock. 

Watched a Scotty Kilmer video earlier about a bee em M3 6 potter. He actually loves that car. Anyway he said some ruddy good stuff. EV'S are Not the answer. He likes the idea of Hydrogen and what an Australian university is doing with salt water to make hydrogen. He even mentioned Methane. 

[toffee_pie]

23 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Well said Eric. 

That Barnard bloke. I'd love to fire a bullet though his head. What a self centred pillock. 

Watched a Scotty Kilmer video earlier about a bee em M3 6 potter. He actually loves that car. Anyway he said some ruddy good stuff. EV'S are Not the answer. He likes the idea of Hydrogen and what an Australian university is doing with salt water to make hydrogen. He even mentioned Methane. 

The best BMWs were 6 pots, its the only type of BMW I would ever have

[Bluemarlin]

On 3/3/2023 at 2:37 PM, toffee_pie said:

There should have been a referendum in the first place but govs thought that they can ban combustion engine cars made since the 1800s in a two minute climate change speech - I suspect it will be pretty challenging to get what they want with the hundreds of millions of combustion engine cars in the world.

Indeed. Technology and progress was at its peak in the 1800s, and since then the illuminati have continually eroded our freedoms with the imposition of indoor toilets, central heating, air travel, electricity, medicine etc. They even removed our freedom to die in unsafe work conditions, or keep slaves. Where will it all end?

Seriously though, I have mixed views on EVs and the desire to eliminate the combustion engine. It may not be the best idea, or even the most helpful with regards to the environment. That doesn't mean that every ill thought out scheme is some kind of global conspiracy to control people, when it's just as likely to be a mixture of good intentions, mixed with poor decisons, based on politicians trying to chase votes by appearing to take action on climate change.

For sure it's a mess, with a variety of arguments on either side, and no clear path to a consensus on what the future should look like. Yes, the rich and powerful have a greater ability to influence things, or at least shield themselves from the worst excesses of incompetence, but that's always been the case. Equally though, for all the claims about governments taking more and more control over people, there has never been a time when increasing numbers of diverse and historically marginalised groups have had more freedoms and protections. Being poor once meant you couldn't afford to feed and clothe your kids, let alone own a car, and now it means you can't afford Sky Sports, and have to finance your car instead of buy it outright.

In the end it's a matter of perspective. The paranoid can take the facts and paint a picture of oppression and control, where the optimist might take those same facts and see progress, opportunity and hope. The reality is probably somewhere in the middle. It's been said that there are some things you can't change, but you can change how you react to them. The world, or society, isn't coming to end, it's just changing, as it always has. As such, one can choose whether to live in a constant state of fear, frustration and anxiety, or to pick the battles you can win, take the rest as it comes, adapt and make the most of your life.

[Mr Vlad]

That's one of the very best posts I've read Bill. Superbly put. Right down the middle and oh so true.  👍

[toffee_pie]

The problem with electric cars and it's pretty obvious is that it's pricing large swathes of people off the road, coupled with the less than green credentials of electric cars and the contribution of combustion engine cars to the global greenhouse gas footprint. 

I'm on this earth 49 years and during that time I've learnt many a thing, one being to never trust a politician, ever - they are the same the world over.

Talking about adapting to life changes, there's adapting and there's clearly anti democratic change's that we are seeing taking shape that go way past what's deemed normal.

[dutchie01]

Its a pity some people can or do not want to see the bigger picture of the developing BEV market. Introduction of the first models was at the top end of the range as the new technology was very expensive and the only way to have some sort of businesscase was to introduce expensive models. If you take a snapshot of todays market you ignore whats coming. Car manufacturers have introduced their top models and are now on it in the middle range followed shortly by the cheaper models. In the automotive world it is commonly expected that by 2025 production of BEV cars is more profitable than ICE. Very soon you will see cars costing 20k then 15 k then 10 k and yes China plays a role here. City cars with a small Battery and fast charging are expected all over the place. 

To put things in perspective the alternative to BEV is the old proven technology using petrol or diesel. So how is that in "mining"?

well not always the best chaps

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2022/jun/01/oil-pollution-spill-nigeria-shell-lawsuit

Seems nothing is perfect apart from using a bicycle!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[toffee_pie]

3 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

Its a pity some people can or do not want to see the bigger picture of the developing BEV market. Introduction of the first models was at the top end of the range as the new technology was very expensive and the only way to have some sort of businesscase was to introduce expensive models. If you take a snapshot of todays market you ignore whats coming. Car manufacturers have introduced their top models and are now on it in the middle range followed shortly by the cheaper models. In the automotive world it is commonly expected that by 2025 production of BEV cars is more profitable than ICE. Very soon you will see cars costing 20k then 15 k then 10 k and yes China plays a role here. City cars with a small battery and fast charging are expected all over the place. 

To put things in perspective the alternative to BEV is the old proven technology using petrol or diesel. So how is that in "mining"?

well not always the best chaps

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2022/jun/01/oil-pollution-spill-nigeria-shell-lawsuit

Seems nothing is perfect apart from using a bicycle!

 

 

 

 

 

 

When electric cars aren't made with half a tonne of lithium batteries I'll reconsider, until then your deluded to think they are good for the planet.

Dirty oil has been used since the 1800s and we seem to be doing just fine, considering this global environmental impact in the UK is less than 1 percent. Obviously the automotive industry isn't the problem here.