What's the problem with electric vehicles

[The-Acre]

4 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

This does not change the mind of the ones that have done the right thing. They do not care about anything else than they can be able to walk on the streets and know that the pollution from making their cars that drive around without noise are made somewhere else where poor people live. It will be a little different when they start digging for rare earth in their own backyards.

I think the problem is innocent ignorance. The general population don't really research before buying, but even if they did, would they turn a blind eye?  

[Las Palmas]

48 minutes ago, The-Acre said:

I think the problem is innocent ignorance. The general population don't really research before buying, but even if they did, would they turn a blind eye?  

Innocent till proven guilty.

The politicians cannot claim not knowing anything of what they are doing. They are not bribed. Oh no! That is not permitted. They are being influenced, by lobbyists that are paid. Unfortunately for some politicians they are being caught in knowing they are lying, some even receiving a little gift or two for helping the lobbyists, but that is OK, because now they know better. And continue to do what is in their best interest.

Yes, stupid people know nothing. They are not bad, and it is not their fault they have little brains, or care little about other people, or are racists.

It is a shame there are so many of them.

[DBIZO]

37 minutes ago, The-Acre said:

I think the problem is innocent ignorance. The general population don't really research before buying, but even if they did, would they turn a blind eye?  

I'm sceptical doing their research would change much. First off, it's an arduously complicated picture with no clear-cut answers other than the best thing for the environment if you don't buy a new car and don't drive around, unless you really really really need to. If you do your research, the first thing you'll encounter is a vast repository of videos and articles that profess EVs green credentials and that it's the future, and how fossil fuel cars are outdated and a thing of the past. To question that you'd need to keep digging for hours, days even, and engage in complex arithmetics about what's better in total cost of ownership, utility, environmental effect etc.

[DavidCM]

I skimmed through an article on EVs recently,not with any great interest, as if I wanted to drive a milk float,I'd get a job with Express Dairies.

On a more serious note though,has anybody thought about disposal/recycling dead EV Battery packs?They weigh hundreds of kg. and the article mentioned that only Lithium salts could be extracted for recycling.Also,the Battery packs themselves are large and heavy.What will happen to them?

Apparently solar panels also have a limited life and again have very limited recyclability.Where will they go?

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, DBIZO said:

I'm sceptical doing their research would change much. First off, it's an arduously complicated picture with no clear-cut answers other than the best thing for the environment if you don't buy a new car and don't drive around, unless you really really really need to. If you do your research, the first thing you'll encounter is a vast repository of videos and articles that profess EVs green credentials and that it's the future, and how fossil fuel cars are outdated and a thing of the past. To question that you'd need to keep digging for hours, days even, and engage in complex arithmetics about what's better in total cost of ownership, utility, environmental effect etc.

Cut it down to cost and nothing else is not that difficult.

Walking instead of driving a car is better for environment, but maybe not for economy.

Destroying the planet to get something that there suddenly will be no more of might not seem so smart.

And prioritising clean air in the city you live in and screw the people that live in the places where materials for the batteries are dug out and where the batteries are made is not very nice in my eyes. What I mean about people that can accept that is not polite enough to write here.

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, DavidCM said:

On a more serious note though,has anybody thought about disposal/recycling dead EV battery packs?They weigh hundreds of kg. and the article mentioned that only Lithium salts could be extracted for recycling.Also,the battery packs themselves are large and heavy.What will happen to them?

Apparently solar panels also have a limited life and again have very limited recyclability.Where will they go?

EV batteries, solar panels, wind mills, when they are dead, they will be landfill - somewhere. Maybe a new mountain? The materials in them that is precious will be taken out and the rest disposed of. 5% of batteries or maybe a little more will be reused with a lot of power to get the rare metal out of the glue and other garbage that is bonding the batteries. Solar panels maybe not quite so bad and wind mills have much larger percentage of reusable material, but still a lot of resin (glue) and other stuff that is not economic to reuse.

We screw ourselves by the way we live.

Left-overs from nuclear power may be more dangerous than the left-overs from our preferred so-called green energy producers, but much smaller in volume and for the time being might be what can help us most.

Water running down from mountains have provided countries like Norway and Sweden with enough electricity for many years, till suddenly much more electricity was needed. Why?

Much of the power, we think we need, is used transporting things we do not really need around the world. Oh yes, we do need it to keep economy growing so the rich can get richer and the poor can go drown themselves.

The moon has been walked on, and not many recognise that it provides the largest power source in the world: The tide. Nobody cares to use that.

Confusion and stupidity are destroying the planet we are leaving to our children. Or do we think that they will be so much smarter that they can clean up the mess we leave?

[The-Acre]

2 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

Innocent till proven guilty.

The politicians cannot claim not knowing anything of what they are doing. They are not bribed. Oh no! That is not permitted. They are being influenced, by lobbyists that are paid. Unfortunately for some politicians they are being caught in knowing they are lying, some even receiving a little gift or two for helping the lobbyists, but that is OK, because now they know better. And continue to do what is in their best interest.

Yes, stupid people know nothing. They are not bad, and it is not their fault they have little brains, or care little about other people, or are racists.

It is a shame there are so many of them.

Whether EV's take off to the extent that Greta and others hope for I'm probably getting too old to know the end result. I'm a great fan of the ICE car and I really hope that in the years I have left I don't submit to a car that goes along sounding like a washing machine on spin cycle and has a dodgy recycling future. My current vehicle on the other hand is very recyclable. Plus I can do just about any repairs to it myself without the risk of touching the wrong part and having my hair stand on end or worse!

[toffee_pie]

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/paper/2023/the-digital-pound-consultation-paper

The Bank of England are keeping quiet about the Digital Pound, all part of the plan and another weapon for carbon and social credits and control of ones wealth - Digital currency is forecast by the conspiracy theories to take over the west, when is a conspiracy theory not a conspiracy theory you might ask... this attitude of politicians gets them whatever they wish

'Shut up and do as you're told': Ex-minister Jacob Rees-Mogg tells military top brass - Dec 2022. 

 

[Las Palmas]

1 minute ago, toffee_pie said:

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/paper/2023/the-digital-pound-consultation-paper

The Bank of England are keeping quiet about the Digital Pound, all part of the plan and another weapon for carbon and social credits and control of ones wealth - Digital currency is forecast by the conspiracy theories to take over the west, when is a conspiracy theory not a conspiracy theory you might ask... this attitude of politicians gets them whatever they wish

'Shut up and do as you're told': Ex-minister Jacob Rees-Mogg tells military top brass - Dec 2022. 

 

Digital currencies are badly needed. Which other ways are there for people buying what is illegal on the dark web? Does Bank of England support that? What are you saying? You are a naughty one.

 

[toffee_pie]

15 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Digital currencies are badly needed. Which other ways are there for people buying what is illegal on the dark web? Does Bank of England support that? What are you saying? You are a naughty one.

 

 

 

It's all about control, everything is digital, electric cars are digital too. You need to read between the skulduggery bs happening - of course the science will tell you why you need this, they telling you what they want you to know - covid was all about control - hardwiring your brains for the future.

And like electric cars, squiggle lines, bike sheds, flower beds, picnic tables, ULEZ zones, cycle lanes and 15 minute commutes there's no referendum with digital currency either - having a referendum would just throw a spanner in the works it seems 

[toffee_pie]

1 hour ago, DavidCM said:

I skimmed through an article on EVs recently,not with any great interest, as if I wanted to drive a milk float,I'd get a job with Express Dairies.

On a more serious note though,has anybody thought about disposal/recycling dead EV battery packs?They weigh hundreds of kg. and the article mentioned that only Lithium salts could be extracted for recycling.Also,the battery packs themselves are large and heavy.What will happen to them?

Apparently solar panels also have a limited life and again have very limited recyclability.Where will they go?

The WEF don't give two fudges the damage to the environment batteries are causing, they have enlisted the help of subject matter experts to convince people that two tonnes of metal with half a tonne of lithium batteries is the way of the future and is fantastic for the environment too. 

I pulled a spreadsheet together with 9 auto manufacturers and calculated roughly how many batteries are needed for 2 million sales per year up to 2030 with a slight percent increase year on year - the result is a figure so large it's worthy of inclusion in the Oxford dictionary as a word used to save greenhouse gases.

[Las Palmas]

13 minutes ago, toffee_pie said:

It's all about control, everything is digital, electric cars are digital too. You need to read between the skulduggery bs happening - of course the science will tell you why you need this, they telling you what they want you to know - covid was all about control - hardwiring your brains for the future.

I’m sorry.

I cannot see any meaning in any of this you write.

Sounds as if you are angry and have completely lost ability to communicate.

[The-Acre]

18 minutes ago, toffee_pie said:

It's all about control, everything is digital, electric cars are digital too. You need to read between the skulduggery bs happening - of course the science will tell you why you need this, they telling you what they want you to know - covid was all about control - hardwiring your brains for the future.

And like electric cars, squiggle lines, bike sheds, flower beds, picnic tables, ULEZ zones, cycle lanes and 15 minute commutes there's no referendum with digital currency either - having a referendum would just throw a spanner in the works it seems 

I won't shop anywhere where they won't take cash, so many more should do the same while we still have it!

[toffee_pie]

17 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

I’m sorry.

 

I cannot see any meaning in any of this you write.

 

Sounds as if you are angry and have completely lost ability to communicate.

 

You need to approach this BS with an open mind - When they said you will own nothing its largely due to the controlling measures taking shape - namely net zero which in turn is forming a carbon credit-based system where governments will have more control of your wealth - it’s all about control but if you are brainwashed you wouldn’t know any different. The great reset refers to the resetting of your brain to accept this new way of life as normal - by endless propaganda, news feeds, experts, doctors and so forth - Quite frankly if you think everything happening is ok it’s a clear indicator its working

Going back to ULEZ zones for example, how do you think people can afford electric cars to be 'exempt' and carbon green as it were - most people cant - if you go into London most of the cars are out of scope to the average person. - they are restricting freedom of movement as will be apparent next year in Oxford - I am sure there will be riots then like there was during the covid lockdowns.

[toffee_pie]

https://www.cashisfreedom.uk/

[toffee_pie]

17 minutes ago, The-Acre said:

I won't shop anywhere where they won't take cash, so many more should do the same while we still have it!

Thats well and good but you wont decide what is happening in the future, I wont drive an Electric Car but thats not stopping them taking over society.

[dutchie01]

Sorry, i wasnt paying attention, i thought the thread was about electric cars and what is wrong with them etc. We are just in the beginning of EVs. All major manufacturers ( except Toyota) started investing billions in the transformation from ICE to BEV years ago. Designing cars, productionfacilities, securing batterysupply and truly changing all sales from fossil to electric. Only a handful of models have hit the market so far mainly the expensive ones with rapid expansion to cheaper models to follow. For instance VW will soon launch ID2 and ID1 with the latter designed at a pricepoint of 15k. Batteries will become smaller and faster to charge. So called batterymining ( cobalt, lithium ) will be regulated and monitored with Indonesia and australia  as main suppliers. Indonesia as thirld world country has attracted billions of investment for this creating tens of thousands of jobs. What is wrong with todays EV world? cars are too expensive, too heavy, charging infrastructure in most countries including UK is not good enough. Tomorrows world will bring a much wider choice of cars, cheaper better and easy to own. 

[The-Acre]

21 minutes ago, toffee_pie said:

Thats well and good but you wont decide what is happening in the future, I wont drive an Electric Car but thats not stopping them taking over society.

Of course that's true but unless people make a stand we may as well just roll over and accept it. There does seem to be a move in the right direction but it needs to be discussed and shared.

[dutchie01]

you dont need to drive an EV if you dont want. Until 2035 you can still buy a brandnew fossil car and drive it for another 20 years. And the second hand cars will be available for even longer 

[toffee_pie]

With a digital currency the government will have control of your money the same way they have control of your movement with electric cars and digital vasccine ID passports also - they will basically have control of every aspect of your life, Chinese poeple know all about it.

The only people who think all this stuff happening is ok clearly are just in a stupor trance from the endless BS we are exposed to 24,7 365.

[toffee_pie]

1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

you dont need to drive an EV if you dont want. Until 2035 you can still buy a brandnew fossil car and drive it for another 20 years. And the second hand cars will be available for even longer 

You dont but our hands are forced by the Gov and most of the decent ones will be over 30 years old in 2030 which is a bit of a stretch - maybe their plan will implode when people arent buying EVs they cant afford or dont want

[toffee_pie]

1 hour ago, The-Acre said:

Of course that's true but unless people make a stand we may as well just roll over and accept it. There does seem to be a move in the right direction but it needs to be discussed and shared.

A referendum is a good starting point but politicians vote themselves into power now - tax payers are just an annoyance

When I get my council tax bill, I will ask them (nicely) if they have plans in place like Oxford or other similar ‘Climate’ events and who has decided on these actions and how are these new plans allocated tax payers’ money in the same way its sent to the fire brigades, police, road maintenance etc. – the new climate improvements (lets call them that for now) don’t have any agreement with council tax payers like myself and I assume a large amount of other people.

The climate scheme in Oxford, assuming they go ahead are clearly a blatant controlling exercise - they are calling it an experiment but how do you judge that?  its more than likely they will continue with it regardless of the outcome of the 'trial' and extend it to other cities

[Shahpor]

4 hours ago, DavidCM said:

I skimmed through an article on EVs recently,not with any great interest, as if I wanted to drive a milk float,I'd get a job with Express Dairies.

On a more serious note though,has anybody thought about disposal/recycling dead EV battery packs?They weigh hundreds of kg. and the article mentioned that only Lithium salts could be extracted for recycling.Also,the battery packs themselves are large and heavy.What will happen to them?

Apparently solar panels also have a limited life and again have very limited recyclability.Where will they go?

This article gives a good idea of what can be done with used batteries.

https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/ev-battery-recycling-what-happens-to-dead-batteries

[The-Acre]

9 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

A referendum is a good starting point but politicians vote themselves into power now - tax payers are just an annoyance

When I get my council tax bill, I will ask them (nicely) if they have plans in place like Oxford or other similar ‘Climate’ events and who has decided on these actions and how are these new plans allocated tax payers’ money in the same way its sent to the fire brigades, police, road maintenance etc. – the new climate improvements (lets call them that for now) don’t have any agreement with council tax payers like myself and I assume a large amount of other people.

The climate scheme in Oxford, assuming they go ahead are clearly a blatant controlling exercise - they are calling it an experiment but how do you judge that?  its more than likely they will continue with it regardless of the outcome of the 'trial' and extend it to other cities

I couldn't agree more but will there be referendums, of course not. It'll be imposed on us just like the covid rules. I'm fully expecting Brighton (which is 12 miles from us) to soon become a ulez zone followed by a 15 minute city.  All of course without public consultation. On the EV thing, our local Sainsbury's, and it's a big one, has just two charging points!

[Las Palmas]

9 hours ago, Shahpor said:

This article gives a good idea of what can be done with used batteries.

https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/ev-battery-recycling-what-happens-to-dead-batteries

Can you find any place informing how much energy needs to be used and pollution will come from recycling the batteries. I cannot. Can you find anywhere telling you if it will be considered economically worth to recycle the batteries as no matter how much something is needed it will only be done if profiting.