This blew me over !

[royoftherovers]

https://jalopnik.com/toyota-and-yamaha-are-developing-a-455-hp-v8-that-runs-1848561318

[Malc1]

if they pop that engine into a new concept Lexus Ls700 then I might be the first off the blocks to enjoy one from them ............. if i live that long eh !  🤩

Malc

[DavidCM]

I think I'm right in saying that Yamaha helped a lot in designing the LFA engine.

The exhaust manifolds coming out of the top of the block are....em...unusual.Perhaps they will poke up vertically through the bonnet.

 

[Mr Vlad]

That engine conversion to hydrogen has been out a while. There's a video on YouTube by a smart Alec dismissing it as viable in a car.

I'd love to find that video but where that smart Alec ucked up was he compared that hydrogen engine But in the RCF against the Toyota Mirai. Its because the size of tank to run the RCF will be so big there wouldn't be any passenger room. However that hydrogen V8 in a large car let's say a LC700h then that would work. In fact any car the same size as the Mirai or bigger. 

No brainer in my book. Just wish I had the funds. Ho hum.

[Malc1]

16 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

Just wish I had the funds

I was reading a while back that Toyota would only LEASE the Mirai to owners  ...... thinking I'm assuming,  that the final ownership and any transient problems in early technology manifesting would be the responsibility of Toyota to sort out  .  but that might have changed by now of course

Malc

[Mr Vlad]

Really? I didn't know that but didn't James May actually buy one outright? There are or were a few for sale on autotrader.

[Malc1]

2 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

There are or were a few for sale on autotrader

there's just the one 66 plate with a single mile covered so's I'm thinking the leasing option is there and until the Hydrogen Fuel is around then the Police will still be the only users and with a plentiful supply of " local " fuel to get 'em out and about chasing after those hill billies around Heathrow, Southall and the like where the police have them 

Malc

[Mr Vlad]

Oh. That's less than I saw a couple weeks ago. I like the Mirai. There's something about it. It looks great especially in that metallic red. Road tests I've seen praise the car highly. 

[Rabbers]

24 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

…  I like the Mirai. … looks great …

Almost as nice as the ES, in fact. 

[ColinBarber]

23 hours ago, DavidCM said:

I think I'm right in saying that Yamaha helped a lot in designing the LFA engine.

Yamaha do head design work for Toyota across most their engines going back to the 1960s, including on the Toyota 2000GT.

[dutchie01]

 

Toyota, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Mazda, Subaru.

Talking about a formidable engineering powerhouse!

On a sidenote, Ineos Granadier was supposed to offer a Hydro version of the new car but this is scrapped as there are simply no fuelling stations.

[DavidCM]

43 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Yamaha do head design work for Toyota across most their engines going back to the 1960s, including on the Toyota 2000GT.

Not only the engine,their music division also provided the gorgeous wooden dashboard.

[Shada]

Stick that engine into a gen 4 is saloon and open a few fueling stations near me and il place an order tomorrow 😀

[ganzoom]

12 hours ago, Shada said:

Stick that engine into a gen 4 is saloon and open a few fueling stations near me and il place an order tomorrow 😀

When do you think that will be? I'm approaching 100k covered in EVs soon, even with me mainly charging at home, 30% of charging was done on the road due to the number of road trips we do.

This summer we are off to Itay and Switzerland. The ferry is booked, accommodation sorted. Next summer it'll be Portugal. 

When do you think the hydrogen powered car that is yet to be made, you are yet to buy will be able to do this. 12 months time? 12 years? Never? 🙂

[ganzoom]

On 1/28/2023 at 5:34 PM, Mr Vlad said:

No brainer in my book. Just wish I had the funds. Ho hum.

There is a Mirai forsale on AT for £30k, that's cheaper than what our IS300H cost. Why don't you buy it and show us how amazing hydrogen fuel cell cars are?

Everyone can talk about stuff, it's action that counts. Prove me wrong about hydrogen as a fuel, show us how great these cars are to use in the real world and I might even consider replacing our IS with one.

[Las Palmas]

31 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

There is a Mirai forsale on AT for £30k, that's cheaper than what our IS300H cost. Why don't you buy it and show us how amazing hydrogen fuel cell cars are?

Everyone can talk about stuff, it's action that counts. Prove me wrong about hydrogen as a fuel, show us how great these cars are to use in the real world and I might even consider replacing our IS with one.

Talking about a possible perfect power source pollutes less than destroying the world digging for materials to make power plants that needs to be replaced every not that many years, that are functioning only for the people having own charging points home, and that cost more to recycle in pollution and money than the value of the materials being brought back from that.

On top of that most of the car batteries are made in, and help funding the gentle political system in China.

[ganzoom]

55 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Talking about a possible perfect power source

I live in the real world. There are hydrogen fuel cells cars you can buy today, there are hydrogen fuel stations in the UK, yet why is no one here buying them if hydrogen is so amazing as a fuel. Its a simple question to answer?

I'm all for innovation and pushing past barriers, but I also live in the real world. When someone (on here maybe) can demonstrate to me the real life practicalities of a hydrogen fuel cell car I will happily be the 2nd follower.

So please point me in the direction of that person.

[Las Palmas]

24 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

I live in the real world. There are hydrogen fuel cells cars you can buy today, there are hydrogen fuel stations in the UK, yet why is no one here buying them if hydrogen is so amazing as a fuel. Its a simple question to answer?

I'm all for innovation and pushing past barriers, but I also live in the real world. When someone (on here maybe) can demonstrate to me the real life practicalities of a hydrogen fuel cell car I will happily be the 2nd follower.

So please point me in the direction of that person.

You may have charging station home, may not need to drive longer than the capacity of the Battery in your car, have funds enough to buy a new when Battery is no longer up to your standards, have time enough to wait for a charging place should you drive longer distance than the Battery in your car is able to without charging.

Lucky you. I believe you are among a very little percentage of world's population. And maybe do not care the least about the suckers that have less than you.

[08ISF]

17 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

I live in the real world. There are hydrogen fuel cells cars you can buy today, there are hydrogen fuel stations in the UK, yet why is no one here buying them if hydrogen is so amazing as a fuel. Its a simple question to answer?

I'm all for innovation and pushing past barriers, but I also live in the real world. When someone (on here maybe) can demonstrate to me the real life practicalities of a hydrogen fuel cell car I will happily be the 2nd follower.

So please point me in the direction of that person.

Hydrogen fuel cell cars are expensive because of low production volumes and there are few refuelling points because few people can afford to buy them. It's a chicken and egg situation. If we could persuade our stupid and venal politicians to properly get behind hydrogen instead of just dribbling out a few quid here and there to give the semblance of some support, we could develop it to the point where it becomes viable. Hydrogen has a few technical problems and some consequent economic problems, but nothing like the socio-political, material supply and economic problems that are coming our way with the current obsession with electric cars. Unfortunately there is a very strong lobby out there that keeps rubbishing the hydrogen option. Toyota and Hyundai are obviously not quite convinced.

[Mr Vlad]

Gang. You quoted me about its a no brainer wish I had the funds. You then went off on a tangent. You seem to have an EV and the superb is300h. You seem to me to be an EVangelist with the way you state things on this thread. 

I'd actually like to have the Mirai But I'm not in the wealth category to afford one. 

A reason why hydrogen cars aren't really available here in Blighty is because there's hardly any fill up stations here, 7 I think, and there are too many 'experts' who dumb down the idea of hydrogen. Some countries actually have a decent percentage of hydrogen cars.

Your EV you obviously like and that screenshot you posted means didlysquat to me because your car from its inception cost 70X more pollution than what was produced by a petrol car.

There are arguments a plenty about the pros and cons of EV'S. 

All I'll say is when the electricity system fails and we're in blackouts because there are too many EV charging and you're stuck I'll still be trundling along in my wonderful V6 is250 🙂

[Malc1]

41 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

when the electricity system fails and we're in blackouts

and the electricity enabling the petrol diesel hydrogen fuelling pump to pump, goes down ......  but hey, I remember back in olden times one could use the handle to pump the petrol up from the tank in the ground to refuel your car .......  am i really that old ?  and yes i did use to work at a petrol station in Chislehurst Kent and the boss told us how to etc .........  back in the 1960's 

And when BP starts pumping out hydrogen Fuel from it's new production facility plant maybe a year or two hence,  in the north of England to put a hydrogen refilling pump in each of it's 1200+ petrol stations throughout the Kingdom then we will all be buying Toyota Mirais and the new Hydrogen Lexus Ls700 that I'm going to commission 🤩

[Las Palmas]

42 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

and the electricity enabling the petrol diesel hydrogen fuelling pump to pump, goes down ......  but hey, I remember back in olden times one could use the handle to pump the petrol up from the tank in the ground to refuel your car .......  am i really that old ?  and yes i did use to work at a petrol station in Chislehurst Kent and the boss told us how to etc .........  back in the 1960's 

And when BP starts pumping out hydrogen Fuel from it's new production facility plant maybe a year or two hence,  in the north of England to put a hydrogen refilling pump in each of it's 1200+ petrol stations throughout the Kingdom then we will all be buying Toyota Mirais and the new Hydrogen Lexus Ls700 that I'm going to commission 🤩

If BP does so here too, I will go back to BP; this little island only needs 1 hydrogen fuelling station.

Now Shell Super V Power etc. is 1.479€ and having a Shell card I get 10 cents cheaper each L.

[Rabbers]

19 hours ago, DavidCM said:

… their music division also provided the gorgeous wooden dashboard.

And was to remain an example of good quality coming at a high price.  Before I took delivery of a new IS250 some years ago my dealer saw a scratch in the wood of the Yamaha-manufactured centre console and ordered a replacement.  When I signed off on the warranty transaction a few weeks later I noticed, flicking through the dealer’s accompanying file, that the price of the replaced section was listed at €3900 excl. VAT.

[Shahpor]

There is a another big problem for hydrogen cars as well: are they too late?

This article has a good breakdown on what manufacturers are planning for the next 7 years:

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-10119941/Electric-cars-Guide-manufacturers-models-future-plans.html?ico=mol_desktop_electriccars-newtab&molReferrerUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-11681341%2FHow-lack-chargers-soaring-power-costs-sent-electric-vehicle-revolution-reverse.html%3Futm_source%3DLexusOwnersClubUK%26utm_medium%3DForumLinks%26utm_source%3DLexusOwnersClubUK%26utm_medium%3DForumLinks

So, as you can see, Alfa Romeo, DS, Jaguar, Jeep, Mercedes, Peugeot will be all-electric by 2025!  Audi to stop developing ICE's by 2026 and Vauxhall pure EV by 2028.

Now, I know that that is still up to 5 years away, but product lifecycles means that most will be working on those cars right now, and if the platform is EV only, it is unlikely that it can be converted to feature a Internal Combustion Engine easily or cheaply.  Even the ones that have committed to 2030 will probably start working on the new cars once their current ones come to the end of their lives.

So, unless we get a breakthrough in hydrogen power soon, it may be irrelevant how good it is because most manufacturers will have moved on.  In fact, correct me if I am wrong, but aren't Toyota the only one who claim to be working on hydrogen power publicly?

Either way, despite Toyota being the largest car manufacturer in the world, they be facing a flow that is too strong to go against.

All the means that we may have a VHS vs Betamax situation where the technology that wins may not necessarily be the best one.

[dutchie01]

Hydro wont happen this decade at least. Car manufacturers have invested billions into EV production and that return on investment has to be made first