Are you happy with your ES ?

Linas.P · February 6, 2023

8 minutes ago, beyond the blue said:

The only similarity l can see in those steering wheels is they are both circular, in my opinion.

At least we all agree they are circular, otherwise it may be a little awkward 😄

Cs150 · February 6, 2023

4 hours ago, Linas.P said:

My time is my business.

As well there is no reason to get pi... about it - just recognise different opinion exists, this is not some sort of religious cult where only positive things can be said about the brand and all negative things are no allowed, regardless if they justified, objective or even subjective. This is public forum, people will have different opinions about things, even if unpopular. I am sure you want to have your cake and eat it too, but sadly when I hear ES mentioned and see people self-congratulating on the amazing decision they have made I want into that action too 😄

So you had your little party here congratulating each other and justifying - "why buy it" and I think it is ok for me to come and provide little bit of balancing to say what I think about the car after trying it (and it's it's identical twins), what I liked about it and what I didn't... and why in the end I decided I would not buy it (cannot say never, because for the right price any car could become appealing). I am sure that from 100 customers walking into Lexus dealership there is some proportion who decide - yes it is for me, and there is certain proportion who decide - no it isn't... I just represent that second group.

Lexus Avalon... sorry that is Toyota ES

It is for sure unusual for someone that does not own an ES to spend significant time researching the vehicle and then significant time posting how poor it is. Almost the sign of an unbalanced person you could argue. Maybe focus on researching and posting about superior vehicles...

Linas.P · February 6, 2023

1 hour ago, Cs150 said:

It is for sure unusual for someone that does not own an ES to spend significant time researching the vehicle and then significant time posting how poor it is. Almost the sign of an unbalanced person you could argue. Maybe focus on researching and posting about superior vehicles...

Ohhh Carl... we been over this "does now own, so should not comment" statement quite a few times already around here, it is ridiculous to suggest that somebody has to own something to have opinion on it. You don't need to own gold to know how gold looks like... If anything me not owning something makes my opinion less likely to be biased, whereas you owning ES makes you more biased. Bias is natural, nothing wrong with that - as long as we identify it and recognise it for what it is. I am generally interested in all things motoring, all things cars and as owner of 6 Lexus cars over the years I happen to be quite familiar with the brand. The only thing that is for sure unusual here is that you are worrying where somebody else spends their time and what they research - that is certainly not something you should be worried about...

As well - I am very far from focusing on ES, honestly one of my least favourite subjects... if you have a look I am sure you will find that from over 7000 comments I made the ES sub-forum has the lowest share.

To summarise - I have tried ES and I didn't like it (no surprise really considering what I value in cars), I have already mentioned what I didn't like and there is no point repeating it. That said those who been around this forum for longer time will know that there was extensive discussion about FWD and RWD and how FWD isn't an issue (or is it?!), yet what I found interesting and main reason why I decided to comment (which usually I don't do on ES topics) is that a lot of feedback was linked to wrong wheel drive, despite owners religiously claiming it is not an issue. Let's just recognise there are drawbacks in FWD and move on...

Cs150 · February 6, 2023

34 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

As well - I am very far from focusing on ES, honestly one of my least favourite subjects...

Ok fair point, bye bye then...

Dippo · February 6, 2023

I've owned a 5 series for 3 years (520D), an E Class for 3.5 years (E220D), and I'm now in an ES. I would say they are definitely competitors. If you move to the larger engined models then clearly the ES does not compete - but there is a significant price premium for those variants. The main advantage the German makes had over Lexus in the past was that you could personalise the cars a lot more from the option list; since the advent of the WLTP fuel economy reporting requirement, the Germans have also moved towards packs rather than individual option choice.

Linas.P · February 6, 2023

1 hour ago, Dippo said:

I've owned a 5 series for 3 years (520D), an E Class for 3.5 years (E220D), and I'm now in an ES.

Yes that is true actually... I guess my perspective is little bit flawed as if I would have gone for BWM/MB I would have never considered the entry level models and when it comes to 530/E300 the ES looks bad by comparison. I kind of said it compares quite well to lower end Audi A6 (both being FWD), but it is kind of true that there isn't much benefit in RWD in cars like 520/E220... that said E220 handles quite well, pulls strong and yet gets 55MPG with ease. I probably would still take E220 over ES300h, but at that level I see them being not far apart really.

That said when looking at used cars, the price difference just isn't there despite BMW costing nearly £60k when new e.g. cheapest ES300 F-Sport vs. comparable BMW 530e:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301243547399

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212152548351

Sure - it could be argued that is for a reason... as 30k miles ES will be more or less as new... that said I doubt there would be much wrong with 24k miles BMW either.

Hadrian · February 9, 2023

On 2/6/2023 at 1:32 PM, royoftherovers said:

Neither would i Ed.

As i previously said, the wrong choice of words :wink3:

royoftherovers · February 9, 2023

50 minutes ago, Hadrian said:

As i previously said, the wrong choice of words

In which case Ed, I suppose I must reserve the right to disagree with your correect choice of words !🤣🤣

Lucca · October 20

I'm happy with the ES 300h but I wish it had regular seats instead of bucket seats, which are terrible.

GMB · October 21

7 hours ago, Lucca said:

I'm happy with the ES 300h but I wish it had regular seats instead of bucket seats, which are terrible.

Similar for us too. The bucket seats ( pretend sporty? ) in the IS200t are not bad but a bit awkward, but the ISF seats are the best and most comfortable that I have ever had.

Ian J. Parsley · October 25

Simple answer - yes.

I actually moved from IS to ES via (mark 1) NX; the NX was my least favourite and I'd probably say my current ES, even though it's a base model, is marginally my favourite.

The ES is a big (but therefore also spacious) car; yet when you drive it it doesn't really feel like it.

It is front-wheel drive, unlike the IS, so think of it as a luxury vehicle to travel in rather than as a sports saloon.

GMB · October 25

48 minutes ago, Ian J. Parsley said:

It is front-wheel drive, unlike the IS, so think of it as a luxury vehicle to travel in rather than as a sports saloon.

I don't really consider the IS hybrid cars as sporty even if they call some of them F sports 😄. The RWD vs FWD is an old chestnut topic. In my experience of both, at this level of performance it does not make a lot of difference. Torque steer being the main issue. However on really powerful cars RWD or AWD is by far the only realistic choice. My summary - FWD good grip on snow or ice; RWD better handling feedback and precision; AWD better all round but not always necessary especially in good dry conditions. Just my thoughts on the matter.

beyond the blue · October 25

I purposely asked for nothing to do with sporty when l bought my ES, no sporty seats, no sporty tyres, no sporty styling not even a sporty name or badge. I went with a simple ES premium edition and it's great. It doesn't have seats that rearrange my kidneys or neck when I get in. I never even switch it to sports mode.

GMB · October 25

In my experience with Lexus when they give you sporty they also remove the suspension and damping. Crash bang wallop all the way and keep dodging grids and potholes.. Mind you it was nice to leave a recent Golf GTi in the dust yesterday from the lights and he was going for it based on the din from his engine.😁. I think he was a bit surprised😇

Linas.P · November 1

On 10/25/2024 at 12:48 PM, GMB said:

I don't really consider the IS hybrid cars as sporty even if they call some of them F sports 😄. The RWD vs FWD is an old chestnut topic. In my experience of both, at this level of performance it does not make a lot of difference. Torque steer being the main issue. However on really powerful cars RWD or AWD is by far the only realistic choice. My summary - FWD good grip on snow or ice; RWD better handling feedback and precision; AWD better all round but not always necessary especially in good dry conditions. Just my thoughts on the matter.

I agree with you here and had said so my self, at the level of performance 300h offers it could be Any Wheel Drive. I have issues with ES and that it is FWD, but driving ES300h I definitely didn't feel like it was letting me down because it was FWD (there are many reason why it is let-down, but driving wheels don't even crack the top 10). So really at this sort of sub-200hp category RWD vs. FWD discussion is purely academical. It would be nice if it was RWD, sure... it would be nice if it would be Lexus also... (sorry I had to poke at it! 😄) but it isn't really that important. Same applies to IS/GS300h - they are RWD... so what? There simply is not power to really takes advantages of it. On ES/IS/GS350 - that would be very important topic.

As for FWD being better in snow and ice... I would argue not the case, going-up the icy hill, actually better in RWD, or reversing with FWD up the hill. So for me FWD really just means cheaper car, better packaging/interior space for same price point. It is a money saving measure. In very small car (say original Mini) that is the only way to do it, in large car like ES it is really just penny pinching. The only sort of "benefit" if that could be called benefit - FWD is more natural and for inexperienced driver easier to control, basically turn the wheels, mash the throttle and car goes into that direction, on RWD throttle control is more important and sometimes you need to turn wheels in opposite direction, which is a matter of experience.

Notamech · November 4

On 1/25/2023 at 10:05 PM, Hadrian said:

We presently have the IS300h, which we have been more than happy with, in just over four years, the only thing that failed was a spark plug. Later this year we are looking at a replacement, something from around 2020. I initially looked at the NX, but now have been looking at the ES300h, as it is only fractionally bigger than our IS, so will still fit in our garage. From the various videos I have watched it seems a very nice car, and comes with a lot of bells and whistles. I'd like to hear people's experiences of ownership.

I recently moved from an IS300h to a facelift GS300H and its a massive step up in terms of quality and feel. This feels like a proper luxury sedan. I imagine it will be the same moving to an ES300H. Also the GS300H to me feels like a bigger car despite minor size differences on paper. I recommend trst driving an ES to see if its something you will be able to manage for your daily use. E.g I didnt go for the ES because of the size it was too big for my use case and i feel i got almost all of the bells and whistles i wanted in the GS in a slightly smaller package and a lower price. But the rear space is much bigger in the ES than the GS. The GS was only marginally more than the IS.

Driving wise depending on how you drive honestly if you're happy with your IS i dont think you will feel much of a difference power wise. The IS to me did feel sportier and faster than the GS. But i now prefer the softer wafty ride of the GS and it does have sufficient power for my use. The ES from what i understand has a similar soft wafty ride and good low end torque which helps with daily driving e.g accelerating on roundabouts etc.