Electric charging for 450h

[RKane]

I'm new to Lexus and ordered a 450h at the end of last year, so still a while to wait.

Some of you will have had the car for some time now so I was wondering what the experience has been with charging the hybrid. It is worth installing a fast charger in the garage or is it adequate to charge using the existing 3 pin plugs? Any recommendations for a wall charger as there seems to be a few to choose from.

Any thoughts welcome!

[Vira]

Congrats on the decision. I have not received my car yet but I went through the same questions. In the end, cost and convenience were the most important considerations.

A good access to a granny charger might work perfectly if you are happy with a 7-9 hrs of charging times and have an easy access to a standard power socket. Might end up saving 1K£ approx.

On the other hand, if you want always want a 2-3 hrs charging time or charging via power socket is an inconvenience or impossible then your option might be limited. 

As I mentioned, I had the same dilemma however this was solved by my wife when she decided to order a full EV for herself.

[HMT]

Hi, like you 2 am awaiting a 450h (ordered in June and told about a year for delivery) 

I looked at various forums and got a very mixed bag of opinions regarding the granny charger from great to the extreme  “don’t use it’s a fire hazard” 

I have decided against the fast charger in the short term, and will use the slower granny charger for a few months to see how it works out.  If it works out then have saved a few £’s if not then will get a charger installed.

l did look at a few suppliers and found out that their estimates are for a standard installation and this standard varies.  As my fuse box is at the back of the house then mine would not be standard and would be an addition few hundred.

look forward to views from those that have already got their cars and their experiences.

[RXtoNX]

@RKaneMine was delivered back in Aug & I was one of the fortunate ones who had the charger supplied & installed FOC from Lexus.

Lexus sub contracted British Gas for this but their normally supplied charger only communicates via mobile phone signals which, if you live in an area where the signal is hopeless like I do is a waste of time. In the end they changed it to an Easee One charger which communicates via WiFi, a much better option.

The Easee One charger, I understand, is capable of charging at 22kwh which, although the Lexus will regulate this to the car’s charging speed of 7kwh, means that it will also charge a full EV car.

 

@HMTThe charger installation doesn’t necessarily have to be connected directly to your fuse box. Mine is connected to the meter but to do this an isolator switch needs to be fitted inside the meter box with a further small box alongside (can’t remember the name of it)

It leads to a neater installation if your fuse box in inside the house and the meter & box is on an outside wall of the house

[HMT]

26 minutes ago, RXtoNX said:

@RKaneMine was delivered back in Aug & I was one of the fortunate ones who had the charger supplied & installed FOC from Lexus.

Lexus sub contracted British Gas for this but their normally supplied charger only communicates via mobile phone signals which, if you live in an area where the signal is hopeless like I do is a waste of time. In the end they changed it to an Easee One charger which communicates via WiFi, a much better option.

The Easee One charger, I understand, is capable of charging at 22kwh which, although the Lexus will regulate this to the car’s charging speed of 7kwh, means that it will also charge a full EV car.

 

@HMTThe charger installation doesn’t necessarily have to be connected directly to your fuse box. Mine is connected to the meter but to do this an isolator switch needs to be fitted inside the meter box with a further small box alongside (can’t remember the name of it)

It leads to a neater installation if your fuse box in inside the house and the meter & box is on an outside wall of the house

Thanks for the info.  Unfortunately my meter is also at the back of the house about 2ft down and outside from the fuse box, so again not a standard fit.  Both ways would require a long run to the front driveway and even worse to the garage.

[Harrier Man]

Like Paul, I was lucky enough to get the charger paid for by Lexus (actually, it was a deal clincher; without the offer, I would have ended up with a RAV4 PHEV). I use it about 20% of the time, 75% of chargers are from a so-called granny charger, the remainder is from the public charging network. How you use the car will largely determine the best set-up for you. For me, most of the time, an overnight charge is fine but a couple of times a week, I get home from work and want a fast charge before going out again.

Lexus Battery management is good and well designed so I wouldn't worry about always using the fast charger (7kW) but, generally, I think slow charging is better for Battery life; hence why I use the domestic charger most of the time.

[F.A.]

3 hours ago, RXtoNX said:

@RKaneMine was delivered back in Aug & I was one of the fortunate ones who had the charger supplied & installed FOC from Lexus.

Lexus sub contracted British Gas for this but their normally supplied charger only communicates via mobile phone signals which, if you live in an area where the signal is hopeless like I do is a waste of time. In the end they changed it to an Easee One charger which communicates via WiFi, a much better option.

The Easee One charger, I understand, is capable of charging at 22kwh which, although the Lexus will regulate this to the car’s charging speed of 7kwh, means that it will also charge a full EV car.

 

@HMTThe charger installation doesn’t necessarily have to be connected directly to your fuse box. Mine is connected to the meter but to do this an isolator switch needs to be fitted inside the meter box with a further small box alongside (can’t remember the name of it)

It leads to a neater installation if your fuse box in inside the house and the meter & box is on an outside wall of the house

I think you need 3 phase electrics to be able to offer 22kw charge speeds. Most houses in the UK will only have single phase electrics which is limited to 7kw. 

[The_Doctor]

3 hours ago, RXtoNX said:

The charger installation doesn’t necessarily have to be connected directly to your fuse box. Mine is connected to the meter but to do this an isolator switch needs to be fitted inside the meter box with a further small box alongside (can’t remember the name of it)

It's called a matt:e I believe it's an additional isolator / earth leakage detector / load management device - at least in my (outside) installation the matt:e and a breaker are fitted in an external box which BG deemed was "non standard" and charged me £80 for.

[Ken R]

I took delivery of my 450h+ in March last year and was also fortunate to have a 7kw charger supplied by Lexus and fitted by British Gas direct from the meter with an isolator switch etc. It has been relatively trouble free but any issues I have had have been swiftly solved by the BGEV team. Full charge from empty takes around 2 and a half hours. A 22kw fast charger would need 3 phase electrics.

The car is brilliant and the wait will be worthwhile!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RXtoNX]

24 minutes ago, The_Doctor said:

It's called a matt:e I believe it's an additional isolator / earth leakage detector / load management device - at least in my (outside) installation the matt:e and a breaker are fitted in an external box which BG deemed was "non standard" and charged me £80 for.

👍

That’s the one

 

[RKane]

Thanks for the replies everyone - that's really useful info.

I'm now thinking that it makes sense to have the installation so there is a choice for a fast charge if needed and a slow charge to help preserve the Battery. And of course for the future possibility of a full EV.

The Lexus spec says the car comes with a 6.6KW AC charger with Type 2/Mennekes inlet, I'm guessing that refers to what is onboard the car and I would need to buy a cable with the wall unit. It also comes with a Household charging cable (7.5m, BF socket).  Is the household charging cable complete with 'granny charger' or is that something different?

[Ken R]

You should get a 3 pin charging cable and a 7kw charging cable with the car.

[Harrier Man]

Both cables that come with the car are 5m long; this needs to be borne in mind when siting the charger. You don't need to buy a cable with the charger but you may feel it worth buying a charger that has a cable permanently attached (can't remember the name for that, 'tethered' maybe?) I say this because the car's fast charging cable is quite heavy and awkward to keep plugging in and unplugging.

[The_Doctor]

1 hour ago, Harrier Man said:

Both cables that come with the car are 5m long; this needs to be borne in mind when siting the charger. You don't need to buy a cable with the charger but you may feel it worth buying a charger that has a cable permanently attached (can't remember the name for that, 'tethered' maybe?) I say this because the car's fast charging cable is quite heavy and awkward to keep plugging in and unplugging.

Yes a "tethered" charger is one that has a cable permanently attached. Harrier Man is right, the cable is a bit of a handful (but at least being a Lexus they provide a bag to store it in and a cloth to wipe it down when it's wet!

[Addh]

I originally ordered a POD point with the OZEV grant but had to cancel the order because the NX hadn't been added to the list of approved vehicles in time. I started with the supplied 3 pin cable but had to use an extension cable as didn't have an outside socket and it was a bit of pain. Now got a Wallbox charger (it was the cheapest option and the grant is no longer available unless you live in a flat) via Evolution Solutions for about £900 (they do 0% finance). Standard installation - tethered cable and is much less hassle being able to park, take the plug out of the holder and plug in. The wallbox unit works fine and the app shows detailed info on charging sessions, cost etc.

Note: you only need a 7kW charger - using a 22kW fast charger doesn't reduce charging time because the car can only charge at 6.6kW max.

[Mobeam]

Had my 450h for past 4 weeks. Using a OHME wallbox charger which was used on previous car BMW. Purchased March last year and just managed to get the £350 Gov allowance at that time. Not sure of costs to install right now.

Charger has tethered cable attached [which I would recommend]....so..... as long as you can park near to it on house drive then just jump out and plug in. Charger will cut out when car Battery gets to 100%.

Car charges at 6.6 kw in approx 2.8 hours each night....current cost about £2.90 per charge.

No issues and charger app shows all info like costs, Kw used, etc each day/month so know exactly how much I am spending. 

 

 

 

 

 

[RKane]

Thanks for the further replies - all good info. I have a much clearer picture of what I need now.

[dts439]

I have the car in garage so its simple to just use the granny charger and a 13 amp socket to charge it overnight.  Seems to charge slightly quicker than 8 hours from 'empty' as well.  If/when we get a full EV we'll put in a charging point but seems pretty pointless at present for us.

Hope your wait is not too long, they are great alll rounders.  What colour/spec have you gone for.

[Harrier Man]

On 1/25/2023 at 2:36 PM, Addh said:

I originally ordered a POD point with the OZEV grant but had to cancel the order because the NX hadn't been added to the list of approved vehicles in time. I started with the supplied 3 pin cable but had to use an extension cable as didn't have an outside socket and it was a bit of pain. Now got a Wallbox charger (it was the cheapest option and the grant is no longer available unless you live in a flat) via Evolution Solutions for about £900 (they do 0% finance). Standard installation - tethered cable and is much less hassle being able to park, take the plug out of the holder and plug in. The wallbox unit works fine and the app shows detailed info on charging sessions, cost etc.

Note: you only need a 7kW charger - using a 22kW fast charger doesn't reduce charging time because the car can only charge at 6.6kW max.

Note there are warnings about using an extension cable. There are others on this forum better qualified than me but my understanding is that a typical extension lead from B&Q and the like is potentially dangerous to use as it does not have the current carrying capacity for car charging. Specialist extension cables are available if essential and when you see the price, you'll know why they are different to a household cable. I got one from toughleads.co.uk (£20 indoor only cable, £26 for outdoor use cable). They also have a page toughleads.co.uk/pages/safely-charging-your-electric-vehicle that explains the issues better than I have.

[MWC]

I took delivery of my NX 450h+ last August and have done around £3500 miles to date.  The majority of my local driving is in EV mode, and charged overnight for just over £1 thanks to the cheap overnight tariff.  I had an Ohme charger installed before I took delivery of the car, and this works well.  I wouldn't use public charging as it's cheaper to drive in normal hybrid mode than pay for that.  I have not used the 13A socket slow charger.  The car has worked out well fro me, and I've only put petrol in 3 or 4 times, and then only a full tank if I plan a long journey.

[BillSt]

I also got my 450h+ in aug. I spend 6 months of the year in Spain where electricity rates are lower than UK so use granny leads to date. Only put 23lt of fuel in in 3 months. Intend to fit solar panels next trip but still considering whether solar Battery is needed so charging can be overnight.

[Warthog001]

I also have an OHME charger but originally ordered a Pod Point unit based on reviews. Luckily, I found out in time that my electricity supplier didn't support Pod Point or my vehicle - so no cheap tarrif! 

I opted for untethered as I needed a 10m cable. It's a bit less convenient than tethered but I only use it twice a week, so no big deal. Also, if the cable gets damaged it's cheaper to replace.

For the original poster -RK - You Tube 'wisdom' recommends matching the supplier to the charger rather than the vechicle, which I have done and it works very well.  Current price £949 (OHME ePod untethered - standard installation) also my installation was easier than 'standard' so only paid £905.  Very fair.

[CGJ]

A car charger will complete a full charge for the 450h+ in circa 2.5 hours. I have a Zappi charger and moved my electricity supplier to Octopus as they have a tariff from 11:30pm to 05:30am at 7.5p. the Day rate is standard. All other electrical house items will benefit from this rate too. I let Octopus control the charging schedule and not either the car or the Zappi so it's really easy.

 The 3 pin standard charger provided will take several hours. I only plugged it in once to make sure it worked then put it away in the garage. We also have solar panels but at 7.5p it makes sense to use Octopus and use the solar for everything else. Hope this helps. 

[Ken R]

If your wall charger is not compatible with the Octopus lowest rate they also offer a tariff that charges 9p between 12.30am and 4.30am. There is a slight premium over the standard rate outwith these hours.

[Jim1977]

In terms of the electrical safety of regular use of a granny charger, I can recommend the Speak EV forum. It’s a discussion point that crops up a lot and there are a fair few electricians in the group.

There is certainly not consensus on the issue. The best advice seems to be that if you want to rely on the granny charger as the primary method of charging, the circuit for the socket being used needs to be investigated. Is it on a ring, is it a spur off a ring, is it something dodgy like a spur off a spur. Is it a radial circuit. What else is on the same circuit sharing the supply etc

The granny is going to be pulling over 2kW constant draw for many hours, likely at night, unattended. This comes down to risk judgement. Would you happily leave a fan heater running all night on full power while asleep, and do so using the same plug and socket several times a week for years. 

It will likely be ok, but think of it in those terms to judge the risk.

Personally, I would suggest getting a Zappi or similar spec home charge point. Aside from the safety, which is a subjective point as detailed above, you unlock the convenience of charging far more quickly, and the ability to take advantage of cheap time of use products like Intelligent Octopus Go. 

You’re not going to get your money back on the cost of the install in cheaper electricity, but the convenience and safety are metrics only you can judge the merit of. 

You may decide that once you’ve enjoyed the electric experience, you want a full EV as a second car, and the Zappi will better suit that.

Once you get a car with a plug, many will start to consider how they use electricity, and often solar panels and a Battery follow. Funds allowing, an EV (or PHEV), solar and Battery are together greater than the sum of each part. We did this some years ago and even running an EV our annual electricity bill is less than a tank of petrol.

If you decide to switch to Octopus feel free to use my £50 referral code “Warm-Burn-664”