All-Season v Summer tyres on our SUVs

[Sundance]

I've discovered something interesting about my recently purchased RX400h in that it has three Summer tyres (Avon ZX7) and one All-Season tyre (Avon AS7) fitted. I've not yet investigated what lies under as the fifth tyre.

Historically, with previous cars, I've not been keen on Avons as I think they're of softer rubber whereas I've looked more favourably on Goodyears as I believe them to be of harder rubber and consequently last longer. But now I'm faced with a predicament.

Firstly, all 4x tyres have good tread so actually there is no reason why I should change them immediately.

Secondly, whilst I don't think it's illegal to have an All-Season and a Summer tyre on the same axle I'm not entirely sure whether it's actually sensible although to date I've not noticed any problems.

Thirdly, I'm likely to remain a softy Southerner and down here we rarely have any snow so, as and when I do decide to change, is it really necessary to even consider All-Season tyres?  If I do, my initial research has uncovered the Bridgestone "Weather Control A005 EVO" as a favourite all-rounder circa £147 per corner (Blackcircles).

[Las Palmas]

Summer tyres for summer, winter tyres for winter, in countries where summer is summer and winter is winter. If UK is that I do not know, but Denmark, Norway and Sweden used to be that and while still living there 2 set of wheels for whichever car we had there.

Here summer is summer all year and summer tyres it is.

All year tyres are a compromise and when security is more counting than convenience and laziness compromise is compromise.

[stepheneric]

31 minutes ago, Sundance said:

I've not yet investigated what lies under as the fifth tyre.

Suggest you have a look, you maybe surprised and find a ZX7  which will match the other three. Problem solved

[Herbie]

Goodyear Vector 4Seasons are superb all-season tyres and what I would use in a heartbeat if I could get them in the 20" size.

There's no real need whatsoever for winter tyres in this country, although possibly in deepest, darkest Scotland it's a different story. I was 65 last week and I can remember some cracking snowfalls during my childhood and teenage years but I haven't seen anything like that for more than 30 years. Even the cold snap over Christmas hardly produced enough to have a snowball fight, let alone build a snowman.

[Jgtcracer]

Ive got Pirelli Scorpion Verde all season tyres on the wife's car and have been very impressed with them.   In the recent cold snap my street ended up being compacted snow on a light hill.  Car didn't bat an eyelid and even struggled to loose grip when I give it a little beans to get the rear end out.  I get the 'All seasons are a compromise' argument but in reality when every day driving on 4x4s they are brilliant for our conditions.  I live in southern Scotland.

For what its worth, my car was stuck on the drive at the same time and has Michelin Pilot Supersports fitted.

[Sundance]

1 hour ago, Las Palmas said:

Summer tyres for summer, winter tyres for winter, in countries where summer is summer and winter is winter. If UK is that I do not know, but Denmark, Norway and Sweden used to be that and while still living there 2 set of wheels for whichever car we had there.

Here summer is summer all year and summer tyres it is.

All year tyres are a compromise and when security is more counting than convenience and laziness compromise is compromise.

If only our weather in the UK could be so simply defined John. Given that our Summers can often be Winter and visa-versa I'm investigating a premise that there may be an argument over here for All-Season tyres. Not so of course in Europe where not only is the weather more delineated but there are clear laws relating to what tyres and when.

[Sundance]

1 hour ago, stepheneric said:

Suggest you have a look, you maybe surprised and find a ZX7  which will match the other three. Problem solved

It will certainly answer one question Stephen but, as explained, there are others on my mind.

[Harrier Man]

I would always put tyre performance over looks but in my humble opinion, I think an SUV looks better on chunkier tyres than the more rounded summer tyres.

[Spottedlaurel]

I did have a pair of CrossClimates on mine, thinking I would eventually fit them all round but by the time the rears needed doing then the fronts weren't far off so I went for all-season Continentals on all four corners. No snow to try them on yet, but certainly no complaints in cold/damp/frosty conditions, likewise they were just fine driving around France last year in 40-degree heat and running at 130km/h on the autoroute.

My conclusion is that they appear to have no downside in summer use and will hopefully be better in winter, so all-seasons suit the RX well.

[royoftherovers]

Just now, Spottedlaurel said:

I did have a pair of CrossClimates on mine, thinking I would eventually fit them all round but by the time the rears needed doing then the fronts weren't far off so I went for all-season Continentals on all four corners. No snow to try them on yet, but certainly no complaints in cold/damp/frosty conditions, likewise they were just fine driving around France last year in 40-degree heat and running at 130km/h on the autoroute.

My conclusion is that they appear to have no downside in summer use and will hopefully be better in winter, so all-seasons suit the RX well.

All Seasons are fine with temps down to around -7 c.

If one drives sensibly having regard to the prevailing conditions one has no need to be a trained Rocket Scientist, or a Clarkson Student (or a Company Car Diver ?) to know what steps to take.

[Sundance]

1 hour ago, Herbie said:

Goodyear Vector 4Seasons are superb all-season tyres and what I would use in a heartbeat if I could get them in the 20" size.

There's no real need whatsoever for winter tyres in this country, although possibly in deepest, darkest Scotland it's a different story. I was 65 last week and I can remember some cracking snowfalls during my childhood and teenage years but I haven't seen anything like that for more than 30 years. Even the cold snap over Christmas hardly produced enough to have a snowball fight, let alone build a snowman.

Good shout Herbs, I agree on your Goodyear choice and they are indeed available in 18s, more expensive but maybe worth it in the long run if I take the All-Season route. 

And I agree about the lack of need for Winter tyres in the UK so I could opt for the Goodyear Asymmetric 'Summer' tyre, they're about the same price as the Bridgestone All-Season.

Back to my main predicament, albeit not immediate. Is there a logical argument for All-Season tyres in Southern UK?  For example, do they wear noticeable quicker than 'ordinary' tyres given the very occasional advantage that they might offer?

In a former life when I was traveling daily throughout the South of England in my trusty 2.0L Peugeot diesel I was getting easily 25k miles and sometimes even 30k + miles out of a set of Goodyears, superb tyre. But now I'm in the 3-4k miles max per annum in a completely different vehicle, so how long might any tyres last on my 400h?

If there's unlikely to be much difference between the All-Season and the Summer tyre and I could get 2-3 years out of them then I might as well opt for the former and cover all eventualities ... I'm guessing that might be sensible. 🤔

[First_Lexus]

2 hours ago, Sundance said:

Historically, with previous cars, I've not been keen on Avons as I think they're of softer rubber whereas I've looked more favourably on Goodyears as I believe them to be of harder rubber and consequently last longer. But now I'm faced with a predicament.

My family and I have had Avon Tyres on many cars over the years, including on my NX and Honda CR-Vs. We’ve always found them to be rather good…

I’ve never had all season tyres, instead preferring a set of Summer and a set of Winter tyres on two sets of wheels. In terms of Winter tyres I found Vredestein to be very poor (despite good reviews) whereas Falken Eurowinter on three different cars were exceptional. Bridgestone Blizzak also good, but not as good as the Falken.

[Las Palmas]

58 minutes ago, Sundance said:

If only our weather in the UK could be so simply defined John. Given that our Summers can often be Winter and visa-versa I'm investigating a premise that there may be an argument over here for All-Season tyres. Not so of course in Europe where not only is the weather more delineated but there are clear laws relating to what tyres and when.

You have the sea around all of the island, just like we have here, only your island is larger. Here all year long sea is about 20°C and the island is then never really cold, only happened once on top of the mountain I have seen snow and that is 2000m above sea level. Temperature here at night is seldom below 15, so summer tyres all year.

While still living in the cold north we had Continental winter tyres and in summer same brand. Maybe not the cheapest, but long living. When temperature got a bit too hot for winter tyres, we kept those still on as better drive slow on winter tyres even if not really needed, than suddenly find out it would have been better to keep the winter tyres on.

Never had all season tyres, but sure that the German brand will have such also.

38 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

All Seasons are fine with temps down to around -7 c.

If one drives sensibly having regard to the prevailing conditions one has no need to be a trained Rocket Scientist, or a Clarkson Student (or a Company Car Diver ?) to know what steps to take.

But below minus 7 what then?

Sometimes when road is minus just 5 and a bit of rain is falling because air is plus, ice can form quickly.

[Prince Bob]

2 hours ago, Sundance said:

I've discovered something interesting about my recently purchased RX400h in that it has three Summer tyres (Avon ZX7) and one All-Season tyre (Avon AS7) fitted. I've not yet investigated what lies under as the fifth tyre.

Historically, with previous cars, I've not been keen on Avons as I think they're of softer rubber whereas I've looked more favourably on Goodyears as I believe them to be of harder rubber and consequently last longer. But now I'm faced with a predicament.

Firstly, all 4x tyres have good tread so actually there is no reason why I should change them immediately.

Secondly, whilst I don't think it's illegal to have an All-Season and a Summer tyre on the same axle I'm not entirely sure whether it's actually sensible although to date I've not noticed any problems.

Thirdly, I'm likely to remain a softy Southerner and down here we rarely have any snow so, as and when I do decide to change, is it really necessary to even consider All-Season tyres?  If I do, my initial research has uncovered the Bridgestone "Weather Control A005 EVO" as a favourite all-rounder circa £147 per corner (Blackcircles).

I had a similar predicament. Front tyres needed replacing, do I replace all 4 tyres with all seasons, or do I just fit some summer tyres on the front?

I believe the Bridgestone duelers I had were the oem tyre but I wasn't impressed with the wet weather performance so went for the Goodyear Efficientgrip SUV summer tyre. The professional and owner reviewed seemed good (maybe sponsored?)

The tyre is much improved in the wet, able to apply full power without torque steer and the traction/stability killing the progress and no more crabbing either. 

I do live in the South though so we don't get much snow and I don't rely on the car to get work so summer seems ideal, my be different if I lived up north where there is real snow. The average temp in the UK last year was 13c and summer tyres work best in temps above 7c

 

[VFR]

44 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

You have the sea around all of the island, just like we have here, only your island is larger. Here all year long sea is about 20°C and the island is then never really cold, only happened once on top of the mountain I have seen snow and that is 2000m above sea level. Temperature here at night is seldom below 15, so summer tyres all year.

While still living in the cold north we had Continental winter tyres and in summer same brand. Maybe not the cheapest, but long living. When temperature got a bit too hot for winter tyres, we kept those still on as better drive slow on winter tyres even if not really needed, than suddenly find out it would have been better to keep the winter tyres on.

Never had all season tyres, but sure that the German brand will have such also.

But below minus 7 what then?

Sometimes when road is minus just 5 and a bit of rain is falling because air is plus, ice can form quickly.

Why not go and read the hundreds of buyers reviews of Cross Climate Tyres (and other brands) from your year round warm island.

No do not laziness stop you as you may learn something ?

[Las Palmas]

54 minutes ago, VFR said:

Why not go and read the hundreds of buyers reviews of Cross Climate Tyres (and other brands) from your year round warm island.

No do not laziness stop you as you may learn something ?

I do not doubt that these people believe what they write.

That does not change the fact that a compromise is what it is. And when not needing to have tyres that can drive in negative temperatures, who would be idiot enough to buy a compromise, that on top of that is more expensive than a tyre that is perfect for living here?

By the way have been in car business many years and am sure of what I have learned. Different driving styles and different climate will not have same as best.

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, Prince Bob said:

I had a similar predicament. Front tyres needed replacing, do I replace all 4 tyres with all seasons, or do I just fit some summer tyres on the front?

I believe the Bridgestone duelers I had were the oem tyre but I wasn't impressed with the wet weather performance so went for the Goodyear Efficientgrip SUV summer tyre. The professional and owner reviewed seemed good (maybe sponsored?)

The tyre is much improved in the wet, able to apply full power without torque steer and the traction/stability killing the progress and no more crabbing either. 

I do live in the South though so we don't get much snow and I don't rely on the car to get work so summer seems ideal, my be different if I lived up north where there is real snow. The average temp in the UK last year was 13c and summer tyres work best in temps above 7c

 

That is the big problem with reviews. Who know what is genuine and what is not? Who is paid or working for the company?

My experience is based on what I have been driving and I will not say that no other tyres are good, but will say that Continental make strong tyres that can be used on really rough roads. Had a MB350 in Africa where roads probably are a lot worse than in UK. Heavy and strong car and tyres and no flats where many other had worse luck. Continental bike tyres are as good as Maxxis (used by many professionals (have friends that are)) on not extreme trails; for downhill Schwalbe are better (in my opinion), but they do not make car tyres.

[Neil E]

 

59 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

I do not doubt that these people believe what they write.

That does not change the fact that a compromise is what it is. And when not needing to have tyres that can drive in negative temperatures, who would be idiot enough to buy a compromise, that on top of that is more expensive than a tyre that is perfect for living here?

By the way have been in car business many years and am sure of what I have learned. Different driving styles and different climate will not have same as best.

 

I have experience of using the latest Michelin Cross Climate 2 on the GS and they do work well enough in snow to cope and they still perform very well in Summer. They are a good alternative to 2 sets of tyres if you don't live on a hill farm in the Cairngorms.🙂 I read the reviews, trusted the advice and it proved to be sound.

I have V rated Hankook Winters on the RX at present, I would recommend them. Yokohama and Continental were excellent Winter tyres too. 

Going back to the original question, Summer or All season? I would say a UK RX should not have Summer only tyres as that limits its capability. I know it doesn't come equipped with diff locks but with sensible footwear, there's not much to stop the RX from making progress no matter the weather or terrain.

 

[Sundance]

12 hours ago, First_Lexus said:

My family and I have had Avon tyres on many cars over the years, including on my NX and Honda CR-Vs. We’ve always found them to be rather good…

I’ve never had all season tyres, instead preferring a set of Summer and a set of Winter tyres on two sets of wheels. In terms of Winter tyres I found Vredestein to be very poor (despite good reviews) whereas Falken Eurowinter on three different cars were exceptional. Bridgestone Blizzak also good, but not as good as the Falken.

Now there's affluence for you, 2 sets of wheels & tyres, not sure I'd go that far. But hey, horses for courses, although like others have commented I really don't think it either practical or economical to have 2x sets of tyres in the UK unless you're in the Highlands of Scotland or maybe the Outer Hebrides. I certainly couldn't justify the cost not to mention the seasonal storage and changeover hassles.

[royoftherovers]

12 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

You have the sea around all of the island, just like we have here, only your island is larger. Here all year long sea is about 20°C and the island is then never really cold, only happened once on top of the mountain I have seen snow and that is 2000m above sea level. Temperature here at night is seldom below 15, so summer tyres all year.

While still living in the cold north we had Continental winter tyres and in summer same brand. Maybe not the cheapest, but long living. When temperature got a bit too hot for winter tyres, we kept those still on as better drive slow on winter tyres even if not really needed, than suddenly find out it would have been better to keep the winter tyres on.

Never had all season tyres, but sure that the German brand will have such also.

But below minus 7 what then?

Sometimes when road is minus just 5 and a bit of rain is falling because air is plus, ice can form quickly.

Winter Tyres if colder than -7 John.

[Sundance]

Thanks for all the chat everyone, some good posts, I think I'm veering towards All-Season boots with the added bonus that they will look more 'rugged' on the car as Malcolm has suggested and might even be more practical.

That just leaves the question of durability. What mileage should I expect out of them on my 400h using them all year round in the UK? Anyone have any experience of this compared with 'ordinary' Summer tyres? 🤔

[First_Lexus]

54 minutes ago, Sundance said:

I certainly couldn't justify the cost not to mention the seasonal storage and changeover hassles.

The cost is an issue for some, accepted - but one I was prepared to live with. The grip with Winter tyres when the weather was cold was so much improved it was scary to think people were still on Summer tyres. All Season are likely a more pragmatic solution though. I don’t have a second set now as my mileage is much reduced with working at home.

In terms of storage, both Honda and Lexus store for free the set not in use. Change over is with an annual service - bolt off / bolt on - so no charge there either. They don’t take up much garage space if dealers are unwilling to store.

From memory the second set of wheels from Honda cost about £400, with tyres on top. The second set of Lexus wheels were a free gift when I bought my new NX as the experience had a few glitches…and I sold those onto a member here when I moved to the RX. 

 

[JamesIS220]

I bought some new Goodyear Ultragrip 9 winter tyres around a year before the last Beast from the East 2018? Bought them for my 1996 Volvo 940 automatic petrol.

I purchased a used set of alloys from a 940 for £45 and had the goodyears fitted.

My Summer tyres are Michelin energy savers and the slightest incline the rear wheels were spinning.

The Winter tyres are simply amazing. Found the steepest hills in the beast from east and could stop and steer as well as pull away. Slight slip, then could feel tyres biting into the snow and off you go. No traction control on a 940 only ABS, no snow mode on auto gearbox.

Still have 2 with 5mm of tread and replaced one that was worn on edge and one punctured on a sidewall so bought last old stock matching one and a good used one with 6.8mm of tread. The 5mm tread tyres are still in good condition as no cracks or perishing.

James.

[Bluemarlin]

21 hours ago, Sundance said:

Back to my main predicament, albeit not immediate. Is there a logical argument for All-Season tyres in Southern UK?  For example, do they wear noticeable quicker than 'ordinary' tyres given the very occasional advantage that they might offer?

 

In a former life when I was traveling daily throughout the South of England in my trusty 2.0L Peugeot diesel I was getting easily 25k miles and sometimes even 30k + miles out of a set of Goodyears, superb tyre. But now I'm in the 3-4k miles max per annum in a completely different vehicle, so how long might any tyres last on my 400h?

If there's unlikely to be much difference between the All-Season and the Summer tyre and I could get 2-3 years out of them then I might as well opt for the former and cover all eventualities ... I'm guessing that might be sensible. 🤔

I don't know if there's a perfectly logical argument one way or another.

Historically I've always had summer tyres and, with a few exceptions, they've been fine. Those exceptions being when we do see the occasional snow in the south, it's been harder, particularly in some rear wheel drive cars, so on some occasions it meant not driving until things cleared.

I now have Cross Climates, in part because of a planned winter drive across France/Germany/Switzerland, involving some snowy mountains and heavy rain/snowfall, where they performed flawlessly. They also handled well on a very hot drive across France in the summer, and during the summer here.

How long they'll last I can't say, as I've only had them about 18 months/10k miles, but they're showing little signs of wear, so who knows. My guess is that's is as much down do weight of car and driving style as it is anything else. Personally, knowing that I can drive safely and comfortably on the rare occasions conditions might be more challenging down south, is more important to me than any potential differences in longevity.

I'm sure there are some differences in performance between winter,  summer and all season tyres, depending on prevailing conditions, so any single year round tyre choice will have an element of compromise. That said, I would imagine that most of these differences are more apparent in testing, where they're pushed to limits most drivers would  never see, and that any good quality tyre would be sufficient for most people, if driven sensibly and according to the conditions.

[Sundance]

5 minutes ago, Bluemarlin said:

Personally, knowing that I can drive safely and comfortably on the rare occasions conditions might be more challenging down south, is more important to me than any potential differences in longevity.

This wise sentence could well be the cherry on what will be a 'making-my-mind-up' cake, thanks. 😉