Research shows it costs more to run an EV on long journeys

[wharfhouse]

11 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

I still buy an actual, physical, newspaper three or four times a week as well as a couple of printed magazines monthly.

I’m always surprised how many other people I know do too, as registering for numerous online platforms is tiresome and nowhere near as easy to read as the printed article.

Am I a Luddite? Hopefully…I take such labels as a compliment!

I still subscribe to the odd hard copy magazine (though yacht and not car related...) the rest of my news I get on Google News on my mobile phone - I don't subscribe to any of the newspapers / publications though. It seems Google News sometimes displays the whole article but other times pops the pay wall up and so I skip past those with the pay wall and read the news articles that open for free. 

[dutchie01]

I was in Portugal this week visiting a business friend and he took me out in his Merc GLS 7 seater with 6 pot diesel and 4wd. Ohh how nice a drive it was with air suspension and no electronic dash all buttons galore. The entire EV discussion doen not exist at all in Portugal !

[Las Palmas]

For whoever is interested there is hydrogen news in the links below.

If you do not like to go through all the accept or reject cookies, I recommend to use the browser: https://brave.com/download/

 

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/green-hydrogen-data-center-ecl/8557028/?awt_a=1jpsU&awt_l=IFzTR&awt_m=fwn3IOLYxe5DlsU

 

BP Hydrogen:

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/hydrogen-hub-bp-germany/8557015/?awt_a=1jpsU&awt_l=IFzTR&awt_m=fwn3IOLYxe5DlsU

 

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/hydrogen-pipeline-h2med/8557006/?awt_a=1jpsU&awt_l=IFzTR&awt_m=fwn3IOLYxe5DlsU

 

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/fuel-cell-truck-ael/8557018/?awt_a=1jpsU&awt_l=IFzTR&awt_m=fwn3IOLYxe5DlsU

[Mincey]

The company I used to work for has now got a Hydrogen division. 

[GSLV6]

If we ignore the point of use, the over riding argument against EV's lies in the recycling.  Currently only about 2% of LiIon batteries are recycled world wide and then it takes huge amounts of energy to do it which offsets the claims of efficiency of use at point of use. Add to that losses in the transmission system and burden on the grid and you start to wonder of any of these globalist elite types know their backsides from their elbows.  Here's one of many articles on the subject:

https://cen.acs.org/materials/energy-storage/time-serious-recycling-lithium/97/i28

Most so-called safe collection and recycling companies simply collect the waste batteries and ship them for onward processing, a vast majority of which centres on the extraction of the precious metals, discarding or incinerating the rest.  The belief that has been spread via propaganda in the mainstream media regarding "green energy" stubbornly refuses to publish any of this data.  Considering the high efficiency of modern petrol engines, it seems to many right thinking people that it remains by far the most sensible choice until a truly viable alternative is properly established.

Adding ever more ethanol to petrol also comes with risks too, not least to the health of the engine, specifically the fuel delivery system.  The whole  knee jerk policies of the UK (and other) governments in net zero emissions is a lie and is truthfully unobtainable and that will remain the case.  It won't stop them decimating our economies and pushing us towards 3rd world standards of living trying though whilst it remains part of the hard left core policies.  Ironically it will hit the worlds poorest the hardest.

As to the future, government policy will force petrol suppliers to keep prices inflated artificially high.  There will be no incentive to lower costs for a product that will drop off in demand as their overheads of production and transport will still need accounting for, plus the added threats of punitive road taxation increasing year on year to force more people over to a technology they can see makes no sense nor comes with the stated eco credentials one you drill deep enough and discover the truth.  Had more widespread investment been made in nuclear power stations this might have swayed the argument but that's never going to happen now without massive foreign investment which we will pick the tab up for.

 

[Mr Vlad]

came across this video. I thought what a good video as it kinda shows extremes between EV and Diesel and what each is actually capable of.

 

[dutchie01]

Interesting article about the global EV market and Toyota

 

https://thedriven.io/2023/01/30/toyota-faces-disaster-unless-new-ceo-performs-miracle-pivot-to-electric-vehicles/amp/

 

[Mr Vlad]

Yes very Interesting and full of other stories as if that The Driven is actually a bed for EVangelists. Funny how I've read articles contradicting that one. 

I really should save what I read.

[wharfhouse]

2 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

Interesting article about the global EV market and Toyota

 

https://thedriven.io/2023/01/30/toyota-faces-disaster-unless-new-ceo-performs-miracle-pivot-to-electric-vehicles/amp/

 

I suspect Toyota are playing the long game - yes, they haven't done so well with the initial launches of EVs but the way much of the public seems to be swinging against EVs right now (which may force government hands) so long as they don't alienate their customer base (which is by it's demographics generally risk averse and not looking for cutting edge tech) they could easily leap frog the current BEV technology (as what we have is clearly still in it's infancy and may look very different in a few years) and take a lead in the future.

[Las Palmas]

NewHydrogen green hydrogen generator prototype unveiled

By BRET WILLIAMS https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/author/bret-2-2-2/

The company plans to use this prototype for the incorporation of next generation innovations.

NewHydrogen recently unveiled a new green hydrogen generator prototype that it says features a “novel low-cost and high-performance catalyst technology.”

The company develops next generation technology for the production of low-cost renewable H2.

The green hydrogen generator protype will act as a platform the company will use for the incorporation of further cutting edge electrolyzer component innovations as NewHydrogen develops them.

NewHydrogen is currently using a systematic acidic water splitting test involving commercial platinum and iridium-based catalysts in order to establish performance benchmarks for current commercial catalysts and to form a standard testing protocol. This is to prepare for the fuel cell performance evaluation its technology will be required to undergo.

Larger catalyst quantities that have consistency across the characteristics of their materials will be needed for the electrolyzer platform prototype’s full operation. Because of this, NewHydrogen has boosted the synthesis of its own noble catalysts ahead of the performance evaluations. The consistencies include electrolytic cell activity transition, hydrogen production rate, long-term stability, specific energy consumption and the new catalyst overall cost estimations.

One of the goals of the green hydrogen generator is to more affordably produce renewable H2.

As the use of renewable H2 is expected to take off in coming years, with various industries rolling out their low-carbon and zero-carbon strategies in the face of the climate crisis, one of the largest challenges to the widespread adoption of this clean fuel is cost.

That said, as the price tag associated with fossil fuels such as oil and natural gas continue to climb, and as the price of renewable H2 continues falling, automakers, industries and governments are seeing hydrogen as a fuel with rising potential. With technologies such as the prototype from NewHydrogen helping to accelerate the rate at which renewable H2 becomes affordable, the viability and affordability of using this fuel continues to improve.

“We are very pleased with the progress being made in our green hydrogen program at UCLA,” said NewHydrogen CEO Dr. David Lee in a news release about the green hydrogen generator prototype. “We look forward to seeing more exciting achievements as we methodically expand our technology focus beyond catalysts in 2023.”

 

Second-gen Toyota Mirai FCEV showcased at Auto Expo in India

The hydrogen vehicle is one of the most prominent models showcased at this year’s event.

The Toyota Mirai was recently showcased at Auto Expo 2023, from January 13 – 18 at India Expo Mart, Greater Noida UP, India, and is the country’s first hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicle (FCEV).

Toyota is assessing the Mirai for India.

The Auto Expo is not the first time that the Mirai hydrogen fuel cell vehicle has been brought to India, however. Back in March 2022, the automaker began a pilot project with the hydrogen car to evaluate it for the Indian market.

Ever since, the Toyota Mirai has been part of a study to analyze the business case for fuel cell electric vehicles in India. This study began after the Japanese automaker signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) with the International Centre for Automotive Technology (iCAT).

 

The Toyota Mirai is liked by India’s Union Road and Transport Minister for its eco-friendliness.

Though not the only environmentally-friendly car that Toyota has showcased at the 16th annual Auto Expo, The Mirai’s clean powertrain technology, in particular, is reportedly well liked by Union Road and Transport Minister Nitin Gadkari, who has previously used the car.

 

[Las Palmas]

Waste-to-hydrogen aviation project collaboration announced by Raven SR

By ANGIE BERGENSON - https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/author/angie-2-2-2-2-2/

Raven SR has teamed up with H3 Dynamics for a decarbonization project.

Renewable fuels company, Raven SR, has announced a memorandum of understanding (MoU) with H3 Dynamics, a developer of hydrogen aviation technologies, to partner on waste-to-hydrogen energy systems to support the adoption of H2 at airports and to help decarbonize airport operations.

Raven SR and H2 Dynamic want to build green H2 aviation hubs for airports around the world.

The two companies are combining their expertise and technologies to bring their global waste-to-hydrogen aviation project to fruition.

Raven SR technology converts organic waste and landfill gas to hydrogen and Fischer-Tropsch synthetic fuels. The hydrogen production technology that is used is highly efficient and does not rely on fresh water as a feedstock. Instead, it uses the Raven SR’s Steam/CO2 reformation process, which can deliver fuel with low to negative carbon intensity.

 

The technology has a modular design, providing a scalable way to locally produce renewable hydrogen and synthetic liquid fuels from local waste. Moreover, in addition to generating much of its own power onsite, lowering reliance on the local power grid, it is also capable of being independent of the grid.

As for H3 Dynamics, the company intends to work with its technology and manufacturing partners to build hydrogen power systems componentry to meet the necessary certification requirements mandatory within an airport and aircraft environment.

Taras ****ewycz, CEO of H3 Dynamics, said, “H3 Dynamics will deploy decarbonization use cases that have a more immediate impact, so that the infrastructure built today can also welcome hydrogen aircraft in the future.”

[Mr Vlad]

WOW technology is moving quite nicely isn't it. Its starting to look like last months news is totally out of date. 

[wharfhouse]

1 minute ago, Mr Vlad said:

WOW technology is moving quite nicely isn't it. Its starting to look like last months news is totally out of date. 

Agreed - anyone who buys a BEV today other than a new one on a fairly short term lease or PCP (with a strong final guaranteed value) is going to get stung as new tech flows through - could really hurt anyone buying a used one a few years old for cash with a view to running it longer term (like many of us do with ICE cars). 

[Mr Vlad]

Mmmmmm. I'm not so sure about those purchasing, by whatever means, an EV will get stung because of the growth of technology. EV'S are here to stay. However they're Not the answer to pollution. They are only part of the answer. Hydrogen will again only be part of answer. 

I wonder what the latest is now between running cost comparisons between petrol/diesel and EV. 

[wharfhouse]

7 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Mmmmmm. I'm not so sure about those purchasing, by whatever means, an EV will get stung because of the growth of technology. EV'S are here to stay. However they're Not the answer to pollution. They are only part of the answer. Hydrogen will again only be part of answer. 

I wonder what the latest is now between running cost comparisons between petrol/diesel and EV. 

What I meant is the both EV tech is moving forwards at a pace and alternative tech to BEV (such as hydrogen) seems to be now gathering some momentum. Those leasing / PCP (with a strong guaranteed final value) new cars for the short term (2 or 3 years) and so able to change cars regularly will be OK (other than eg frustrating issues with infrastructure) but I wouldn't want to be in the position of buying a BEV now with a view to keeping it long term or buying second hand (where many will be looking more closely at what it's worth when reselling or to run long term). 

[Mr Vlad]

Yes. Me thinks I may have slightly gotvtge wrong end of the stick so to speak. 

[08ISF]

On the subject of hydrogen:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1092555/hydrogen-strategy-update-to-the-market-july-2022.pdf

It seems that someone , somewhere, in government is actually looking at it. Whether they are taking it seriously enough or funding it enough remains to be seen.  🤫 I suspect not.

[Mr Vlad]

Yes hydrogen is steadily getting talked about more but in an industrial manner and logistics. 

Below is an interesting video comparing old and new.

 

 

[Mr Vlad]

Back to the subject of this thread. Considering the price of fuel and charging rates nowadays this video is very surprising with its findings.

 

[Las Palmas]

26 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Back to the subject of this thread. Considering the price of fuel and charging rates nowadays this video is very surprising with its findings.

Funny is that whatever is true today may be wrong tomorrow.

Nobody know where different governments in the world find out to take the money from; if it is electricity, gasoline, food or air we breathe.

Gasoline here (super Shell V Power etc.) cost 1.48€ and for returning customers registered with them it is 0.1€ less each L.

[Mr Vlad]

More stuff found how ownership of a petrol car is cheaper than an EV. This video is from a well to do guy who has Porsche cars. Porsche Taycan service time 🫨

 

 

[DavidCM]

No surprises there.Porsche certainly know how to charge.I know because I ran one for 7 odd years.I couldn't make out whether it was a minor or major service....I'd have thought £750 ish for the basic (major) service would be fairly cheap for a Cayman/Boxster level.. probably not too different to what I was paying about 10 years ago..so it may have been a minor service.

Either way,I don't know why he was wondering how much it would cost.I know that my minor service in 2 weeks time will be £305,less 15% LOC disc.He surely would have asked the cost when booking.

It all correlates to the fact that if you buy a car at twice the average cost,your running costs will be double (ish).

[Las Palmas]

10 Hydrogen fuel cars worth your attention in 2023

Hydrogen fuel passenger cars aren’t mainstream yet, but here are some models for you to watch.

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/hydrogen-fuel-cars-10/8557113/?awt_a=1jpsU&awt_l=IFzTR&awt_m=iG0jJYl3_e5DlsU

 

On 2/1/2023 at 5:19 PM, Mr Vlad said:

Yes hydrogen is steadily getting talked about more but in an industrial manner and logistics. 

Below is an interesting video comparing old and new.

 

 

USA:

Clean hydrogen tech development to get $47 million government funding boost

Projects funded under this opportunity will advance the DOE’s Hydrogen Shot goal.

The Hydrogen Shot goal is to lower the cost of clean hydrogen to $1 per kilogram within ten years. The projects that receive funds under this latest Biden-Harris Administration clean hydrogen tech funding opportunity will decrease costs, enhance hydrogen infrastructure, and improve hydrogen fuel cell performance.

 

U.S. Department of Energy (DOE), recently announced up to $47 million in funding to speed up the research, development, and demonstration (RD&D) of affordable clean hydrogen tech.

This clean hydrogen tech funding opportunity focuses on specific projects and applications.

Clean hydrogen tech is expected to play a critical role in lowering emissions from hard to decarbonize sectors in the U.S. Among these sectors include heavy-duty transportation, and industrial and chemical processes.

The up to $47 million in H2 funding will focus on affordable and durable fuel cell technologies as well as RD&D of key hydrogen delivery and hydrogen storage technologies. Fuel cell RD&D projects will concentrate on applications for heavy-duty trucks to lower CO2 emissions and eliminate tailpipe emissions that contribute to air pollution.

“This funding will advance cutting-edge research and drive down technology costs to help unlock the full potential of clean hydrogen energy—providing another valuable resource to combat the climate crisis while creating economic opportunities in communities across the country,” said Granholm.

This is the second time in recent months that the Biden-Harris Administration has announced funding through the DOE for clean hydrogen tech development. Back in December 2022, the Biden-Harris Administration announced $750 million in funding to accelerate clean hydrogen technologies to advance electrolysis technology, reduce the cost of clean H2 and fuel cells, and deliver long-term support for hydrogen hubs. This most recent funding opportunity is administered by DOE’s Hydrogen and Fuel cell Technologies Office (HFTO).

[First_Lexus]

On 2/1/2023 at 11:42 AM, Mr Vlad said:

However they're Not the answer to pollution. They are only part of the answer. Hydrogen will again only be part of answer. 

This is a very interesting thread with some fascinating links.

I’m rapidly coming to the conclusion that the ‘answer’ to pollution isn’t the EV, or hydrogen…but is actually greater availability and use of public transport.

The more I think about it, the more I think that - cities and large towns especially - would be so much nicer without traffic. I’m increasingly using the train whenever possible as driving has rather lost its appeal. Railway worker strikes notwithstanding!

I really do think that a political party who genuinely invested in affordable public transport across the country might get quite a lot of support. The sort of system this country had up until the mid-1960s and before the explosion in private car ownership.

 

[Mr Vlad]

Ed. The buildings in the cities produce something like 20X more pollution than the cars in that city do.

An affordable public transport system won't happen again until their propulsion methods are much greener. The use of green hydrogen,which as it happens is on the up and up slowly but surely, will help greatly towards public transport vehicles.