GS F Aftermarket immobiliser

[hockeyedwards]

So, over the past few months there has been a spate of car thefts from our estate. Primarily BMW's, so I presume they must be an easier target or more sought after. Neighbours camera footage shows they were just extending key signals from the house and driving the cars off within seconds. I have a Faraday pouch for all keys when not in use, my F sits behind the house tucked away and in view of several neighbours with a lamp post illuminating the area with decent image quality cameras covering the area. So I have been fairly confident that the car is safe.

However, recently I have noticed a new attack making waves where through the wheel arch, would be car thieves are fooling CANBUS system into allowing access and starting of the car and driving. The limit being how quickly they can access behind wheel arch covers. Whilst again I am confident the car is safe behind the house, I am more concerned of leaving it in car parks etc when out for dinner/ events some evenings.

Therefore I decided to have an aftermarket immobiliser fitted. Initially I wanted a Ghost system, just because most car owners I had spoken to, had gone with it. However, after consulting a fitter (who came recommended), he swayed me across to a Starline system. It has the exact same functionality as a Ghost BUT he could not speak highly enough of the customer support side of things in comparison to Ghost. So I went ahead and had it installed on Wednesday.

It is brilliant, I can disarm the system with my phone, key tag, special button sequence or emergency pin entry. If someone had the time to attempt to override the system, they need my installers security card, the system is useless to them without it. If I have my phone or key tag, there is no delay in normal routines, I can just jump in, foot on pedal and push start as normal, now just with an added bleep to confirm system is disarmed. I tested the customer suppoert by phoning up, answered in 4 rings, the tech who installed it has my car 'logged' so if I have any issues, I can contact him and he can troubleshoot. I am still reading through the manual (inner geek cant help it) but I feel totally at ease and that the car is more than safe!

[wendle]

i have the Ghost fitted, touch wood i haven't had any issues over the past 3 years so i can't comment on the customer support side of things, only that the guy who fitted it spent a long time telling and showing me how it all worked, he also rang me a week later to make sure i was happy with everything.

[hockeyedwards]

14 minutes ago, wendle said:

i have the Ghost fitted, touch wood i haven't had any issues over the past 3 years so i can't comment on the customer support side of things, only that the guy who fitted it spent a long time telling and showing me how it all worked, he also rang me a week later to make sure i was happy with everything.

Of course, it might be one of those things you never have an issue with. Sods (cousin of Murphy) law, says it'll happen to me though haha! Same price for either system so I wasn't upsold or anything and the fitter came recommended from a friend and we chatted for a while after install was complete and made sure I was happy with it.

[Flytvr]

Thanks for the info Kieran. I hadn't heard of the CAN BUS attack.

Personally, I'd rather they just took the car and I never saw it again. 

Speaking from experience, it's not nice having car thieves in your house in the early hours - especially if they have the balls to ask for the keys / Ghost code etc

I think I'll buy some good old fashioned crook locks. May not be the best devices, but at least they are visible.

[Herbie]

43 minutes ago, Flytvr said:

I think I'll buy some good old fashioned crook locks. May not be the best devices, but at least they are visible.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I appreciate that a Ghost or Starline may be a good thing but the scrotes will have already gained access into your pride and joy before these things begin to do their job, whereas I would rather deter them from thinking of my car as a target in the first place.

A big, bright yellow, steering wheel lock (in my case a Stoplock Pro Elite), which is highly visible from outside the car will hopefully make them think it's not worth the hassle and move on to an easier target.

[wendle]

25 minutes ago, Herbie said:

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I appreciate that a Ghost or Starline may be a good thing but the scrotes will have already gained access into your pride and joy before these things begin to do their job, whereas I would rather deter them from thinking of my car as a target in the first place.

A big, bright yellow, steering wheel lock (in my case a Stoplock Pro Elite), which is highly visible from outside the car will hopefully make them think it's not worth the hassle and move on to an easier target.

Agree party in what you have said

cars are stolen for various reasons, from the guys who have just come out of a pub and don’t want to walk home to the cars stolen by professionals to order.

so I think it would depend on who you are trying to protect you car from.

Iam not saying a professional gang can’t get round the most advanced system available, but if they can remove a CAT from a car in seconds then a steering lock is not going to be a problem 

[Herbie]

51 minutes ago, wendle said:

but if they can remove a CAT from a car in seconds then a steering lock is not going to be a problem 

I know what you mean but in various tests and reviews, the Stoplock Pro Elite took more than five minutes to defeat with hammers, chisels and saws; that's five minutes of noise and hassle that the scrotes don't want.

[Herbie]

3 hours ago, Flytvr said:

Speaking from experience, it's not nice having car thieves in your house in the early hours - especially if they have the balls to ask for the keys / Ghost code etc

Thankfully we've never experienced this and hopefully never will, but don't misunderstand me; if someone is stood in our bedroom threatening me with violence unless I hand over the keys etc., then not only will I hand them over but I'll also gift-wrap them in a nice bow and give them a bottle of champers too

[ColinBarber]

Luckily we don't have Range Rovers with a plastic tailgate and an alarm that will deactivate by cutting a wire. This guy has an additional immobiliser so kept the car but he still has to deal with the damage.

https://tekdeeps.com/went-down-to-my-range-rover-and-noticed-a-hole-in-the-trunk-a-new-way-to-steal/

[F.A.]

I like the idea of this, but can never find an installer that I trust around our area.
I also find that no one (including some car enthusiasts) seems to know what the GSF is. Most think it’s a normal Lexus Hybrid, so with that in mind, is it that desirable to thieves?  

[hockeyedwards]

43 minutes ago, F.A. said:

I like the idea of this, but can never find an installer that I trust around our area.
I also find that no one (including some car enthusiasts) seems to know what the GSF is. Most think it’s a normal Lexus Hybrid, so with that in mind, is it that desirable to thieves?  

So the slightly funny part about that is, there wasn't a go to software package for the GS F (nor the RC F) 😆 for him to just 'drag and drop', he was on the phone to the tech department and they customised one over the phone. When he ran 2016 GS or RC software, it would allow some of the cylinders to fire, but it sounded like a 70's American V8, proper lumpy noise, kinda funny.

He came as a recommendation and was such a lovely guy, had been doing it from 20 years old and happily explained stuff to me as I would periodically go and refresh his tea and ask some Q's.

@Flytvr I see your point and I guess ultimately, if they really want it, they'll find a way. Sorry to hear about your personal experience. If it came to it life/ death/ harm to family, would just give them the spare tag and off they pop.

[Flytvr]

16 hours ago, Herbie said:

Thankfully we've never experienced this and hopefully never will, but don't misunderstand me; if someone is stood in our bedroom threatening me with violence unless I hand over the keys etc., then not only will I hand them over but I'll also gift-wrap them in a nice bow and give them a bottle of champers too

I totally agree. It’s a car “Have the keys, and would you like a coffee to go? Sugar?”.

What’s often forgotten is the  psychological impact of having your home violated. It’s not nice.

[hockeyedwards]

1 hour ago, Flytvr said:

I totally agree. It’s a car “Have the keys, and would you like a coffee to go? Sugar?”.

What’s often forgotten is the  psychological impact of having your home violated. It’s not nice.

'Please only put 99 octane in her and to really bring the car alive SS mode and manual' 😆

[Hillie]

On 1/6/2023 at 10:29 AM, hockeyedwards said:

So, over the past few months there has been a spate of car thefts from our estate. Primarily BMW's, so I presume they must be an easier target or more sought after. Neighbours camera footage shows they were just extending key signals from the house and driving the cars off within seconds. I have a faraday pouch for all keys when not in use, my F sits behind the house tucked away and in view of several neighbours with a lamp post illuminating the area with decent image quality cameras covering the area. So I have been fairly confident that the car is safe.

However, recently I have noticed a new attack making waves where through the wheel arch, would be car thieves are fooling CANBUS system into allowing access and starting of the car and driving. The limit being how quickly they can access behind wheel arch covers. Whilst again I am confident the car is safe behind the house, I am more concerned of leaving it in car parks etc when out for dinner/ events some evenings.

Therefore I decided to have an aftermarket immobiliser fitted. Initially I wanted a Ghost system, just because most car owners I had spoken to, had gone with it. However, after consulting a fitter (who came recommended), he swayed me across to a Starline system. It has the exact same functionality as a Ghost BUT he could not speak highly enough of the customer support side of things in comparison to Ghost. So I went ahead and had it installed on Wednesday.

It is brilliant, I can disarm the system with my phone, key tag, special button sequence or emergency pin entry. If someone had the time to attempt to override the system, they need my installers security card, the system is useless to them without it. If I have my phone or key tag, there is no delay in normal routines, I can just jump in, foot on pedal and push start as normal, now just with an added bleep to confirm system is disarmed. I tested the customer suppoert by phoning up, answered in 4 rings, the tech who installed it has my car 'logged' so if I have any issues, I can contact him and he can troubleshoot. I am still reading through the manual (inner geek cant help it) but I feel totally at ease and that the car is more than safe!

I spent some time looking at the Ghost II and more recently the Starline CAN bus car security solutions based on the positive reports for the Starline system here and elsewhere on the internet. However my background research suggests Starline to be a Russian company,  HQ and production located in St Peterburg with most tech support being distributed accross mutliple Russian / CIS cities.  With the current geo-political situation (Ukraine situation) and total embargo on all electronic components being shipped into Russia,  personally I have my doubts about the viability of this system going forward.  If someone could eliviate my concerns then this would be helpful.

https://www.alarmstarline.com/about/

starline_catalogue.pdf
 

[hockeyedwards]

Offt Saturday evening politics, heavy, haha! If it concerns you that much, get a ghost...

However! Quick skim (and I do mean quick) of the online documents seems to highlight that it would be already assembled advanced electronics that are banned, with them being researched/developed/manufactured in Russia, would to me suggest they just need the raw materials/ components? - which I'm sure they can gather from some well known Middle Eastern/ Asian countries.

I would also believe that the sanctions are aimed at disabling/ hindering their military manufacturing capabilites not bringing down their car security systems (who knows, could be their achilles!!!) Also seems to be more restrictions on exports from Russia than imports into, but geared more towards commodoties - which make up a very large portion of their export (pre Ukraine war). China being their largest buyer (assuming the data from 2021 would project similarly into 2022)

Happy Saturday! 😛

[Flytvr]

Thinking about this. Why would anyone rob a GSF? What would a thief do with one? If I was going to take a car, I’d take a car that was common, where I could dismantle and sell off the parts.

Surely (and hopefully), an F car getting nicked is rare?

[wendle]

20 minutes ago, Flytvr said:

Thinking about this. Why would anyone rob a GSF? What would a thief do with one? If I was going to take a car, I’d take a car that was common, where I could dismantle and sell off the parts.

Surely (and hopefully), an F car getting nicked is rare?

stolen to order by professional thieves which is why i feel a staring lock would not be adequate. 

[Hillie]

6 hours ago, hockeyedwards said:

Offt Saturday evening politics, heavy, haha! If it concerns you that much, get a ghost...

However! Quick skim (and I do mean quick) of the online documents seems to highlight that it would be already assembled advanced electronics that are banned, with them being researched/developed/manufactured in Russia, would to me suggest they just need the raw materials/ components? - which I'm sure they can gather from some well known Middle Eastern/ Asian countries.

I would also believe that the sanctions are aimed at disabling/ hindering their military manufacturing capabilites not bringing down their car security systems (who knows, could be their achilles!!!) Also seems to be more restrictions on exports from Russia than imports into, but geared more towards commodoties - which make up a very large portion of their export (pre Ukraine war). China being their largest buyer (assuming the data from 2021 would project similarly into 2022)

Happy Saturday! 😛

Yeah,  it is kinda heavy for a Saturday evening and the post was not intended as dissaproval of your choice.  If offence was caused I apologise and none was intended.    I will continue to look at Ghost and other electronic security or mechanical security options with due consideration for long term warranty support which IMO in this instance has risk.

For general reference and sharing of knowledge I can advise that the majority of semiconductor manufacturers are conforming to the government embargos and all sales of components into Russia are blocked, whether they are commerical, industrial, automotive or military.  There is no allowance for the end market or product use.  You are correct they can and do obtain devices by indirect routes but the semi vendors and government agencies are chasing these avenues down. This is really a serious topic in the semiconductor industry.  The concern being the redirection of non military grade devices to the military sector.   e.g. A microprocessor, memory or power device intended for a car security system,  or a washing machine being found inside a drone or missile. The penalties at a company AND personal level for infringment of these embargos is significant.

[Flytvr]

11 hours ago, wendle said:

stolen to order by professional thieves which is why i feel a staring lock would not be adequate. 

 But what’s the demand for GS-F spare parts?
 

On another note, if it’s a determined professional attempting the theft, let them have it

[wendle]

43 minutes ago, Flytvr said:

 But what’s the demand for GS-F spare parts

there isn't, the cars are stolen to order from abroad, within 2 hours of your car missing it has probably already left the country

 

44 minutes ago, Flytvr said:

 

On another note, if it’s a determined professional attempting the theft, let them have it

There are professional thieves who rob houses but you don't leave your front door open

[hockeyedwards]

11 hours ago, Hillie said:

Yeah,  it is kinda heavy for a Saturday evening and the post was not intended as dissaproval of your choice.  If offence was caused I apologise and none was intended.    I will continue to look at Ghost and other electronic security or mechanical security options with due consideration for long term warranty support which IMO in this instance has risk.

For general reference and sharing of knowledge I can advise that the majority of semiconductor manufacturers are conforming to the government embargos and all sales of components into Russia are blocked, whether they are commerical, industrial, automotive or military.  There is no allowance for the end market or product use.  You are correct they can and do obtain devices by indirect routes but the semi vendors and government agencies are chasing these avenues down. This is really a serious topic in the semiconductor industry.  The concern being the redirection of non military grade devices to the military sector.   e.g. A microprocessor, memory or power device intended for a car security system,  or a washing machine being found inside a drone or missile. The penalties at a company AND personal level for infringment of these embargos is significant.

No offence taken in the slightest, the joys of ambiguity! I took it as a point of discussion, so no harm done 🙂

[Flytvr]

9 hours ago, wendle said:

there isn't, the cars are stolen to order from abroad, within 2 hours of your car missing it has probably already left the country

 

There are professional thieves who rob houses but you don't leave your front door open

Nobody is saying ‘leave the door open’, but there gets to a point where a determined robber may well decide to break in and threaten family. “Tell me the Ghost code or I’ll XYX”. It’s a car!

Anyway, what’s the official number of GSFs stolen in this country? I’ve never heard of one. I had one in my possession for almost a year. Nobody even looked at it.

I think it’s a far fetched argument that a GSF is going to be nicked to order 😂

[ubersonic]

11 hours ago, wendle said:

there isn't, the cars are stolen to order from abroad, within 2 hours of your car missing it has probably already left the country

I never really understood the idea of cars nicked to order in this country.

I mean, if you're nicking a RHD vehicle to order then you're buyer is going to be in either the Australia/NZ area, Japan, South-East Africa, or India.

At least two of those have the F cars as domestic models where they're a more common sight than in the UK so importing a nicked one with the wiper stalk on the wrong side seems a bit dense when you could just buy locally, then you have to factor in that nicking Japanese cars from Japan to use in Aus/NZ/India would save a load on shipping compared to UK.  So the only real market would be South-East Africa.

Which is weirder still as who in Africa has the money to pay for a crew to steal them a car and ship it halfway round the planet, but decided they absolutely must have a forty grand used Lexus GS with the engine from an RCF (I'm not trying to hate on the GSF, but there's a reason it's the worst selling car Lexus UK have ever offered without a V10, the market for potential buyers is tiny).

[F.A.]

2 minutes ago, ubersonic said:

I never really understood the idea of cars nicked to order in this country.

I mean, if you're nicking a RHD vehicle to order then you're buyer is going to be in either the Australia/NZ area, Japan, South-East Africa, or India.

At least two of those have the F cars as domestic models where they're a more common sight than in the UK so importing a nicked one with the wiper stalk on the wrong side seems a bit dense when you could just buy locally, then you have to factor in that nicking Japanese cars from Japan to use in Aus/NZ/India would save a load on shipping compared to UK.  So the only real market would be South-East Africa.

Which is weirder still as who in Africa has the money to pay for a crew to steal them a car and ship it halfway round the planet, but decided they absolutely must have a forty grand used Lexus GS with the engine from an RCF (I'm not trying to hate on the GSF, but there's a reason it's the worst selling car Lexus UK have ever offered without a V10, the market for potential buyers is tiny).

I think you might find that the GS460 sold in lower numbers than the GSF 😂

[hockeyedwards]

A car 'stolen to order' doesn't necessarily mean it is being sold on as a complete car. You may be able to look up and watch a documentary about car stealing gangs. They are usually stolen, taken immediately to their nearest safe location/ workshop and stripped down for parts and then exported to wherever the demand may be or sold on through 'legitimate' sources. The added hoops they have to jump through now are trackers, so dumping a car somewhere obscure overnight to see if it is recovered etc. Although sad, it did make for an interesting watch.

I had my car stolen as teenager, 2006 Suzuki Swift, I very much doubt that was an 'in demand' example as a whole car, so likely broken for parts (bastards, I loved that car! 😆)