Why Lexus is yet to break into the UK mainstream

[dutchie01]

3 hours ago, malcolmw said:

Mercedes dealership experience huh?

A while back I went to the Merc dealership in Salisbury (in my Aston DB9 to make them take me seriously as a potential customer!) and test drove an AMG GT Coupe. It was fast and a bit cramped for me but they let me take it out for an unaccompanied drive for an hour or so. I took it back and expressed general interest and said I would think about if I wanted to spend £100K plus.

I never heard from them again.

Astounding arrogance.

Heres another one. I wanted to buy a 1 yr old GLA for my wife asked for a testdrive reply was that would be possible after i buy the car first. I thought it was a joke but they were serious! Left the building and will take the bus rather than buy a car from those arrogant self centred space cadets again. I wish they lots of competition from China.

[dutchie01]

2 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

Your experience Malc has reminded me when I had my first Lexus. is300h which I wasn't happy with. I wentvto the big BMW dealer in Leeds and had my eye on the active hybrid 3 series 3.0. I was impressed and said I'd have it. What would you give me for my car? Never heard back from them.

BMW? heres another one. I needed an official offer for my new companycar and had the spec fully worked out and written on a paper. Entered the dealer explained the situation and told him, it was Friday, i could send him an order by Monday. And what was the reply?.......  tadaaa here it comes... Could you possibly come back next week Sir, we are redecorating the showroom and installing the new 5 series for the display this weekend. I left in total confusion, it is extremely difficult buying a new car from a dealer!

[Mr Vlad]

Not laughing at you Bernard but your post. So unbelievable that they'd do that that's its hilarious. 

[Rabbers]

1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

BMW? …… I left in total confusion, it is extremely difficult buying a new car from a dealer!

Maybe he thought he was doing you a favour? 

[Linas.P]

On 1/7/2023 at 11:09 AM, Mr Vlad said:

Whether Lexus want to be mainstream or not I think there will be conflict within. Yes the German cars are seen as snobbish but isn't that purely down the the crooked motoring press? Crooked yes. I think their reviews are cough cough bought. 

I actually don't think motoring press is "crooked", however I think they have different consumers in mind than majority of people on this forum (not all but majority). This needs to be understood before watching nay review - they don't care what will happen to car after 5 years, they don't care about maintenance costs (as these simply cannot be objectively judged) and they don't care that some cars will get more faults than others..

First of all, that motoring press does not care about reliability and that is fine, they are not some sort of long terms maintenance reviews... their reviews are "as is today, brand new car for x amount of money". And yes indeed BMW, MB and Audi simply makes more competitive, more appealing product. More faster, more efficient, better equipped and cheaper, so on the face of it they are just better cars when considering brand new car.

Secondly, they don't need to deal with any bad customer service (unless it is Ferrari) and to be fair they do mention this e.g. I have seen several reviews where reviewers pointed out that Lexus ES300h is "total mehh, but you get Lexus dealership experience and reliability" and that is more than fair. In the end of the day reliability and dealership experience is just 2 of 100 criteria and there is good chance you never have to bother about either of them. 

... and why this is? Because for majority of new car buyers that is simply not relevant and on top of that, even if they wanted to review certain aspects there is no way to objectively judge them. Even if say they take car on long review (they do that and sometimes drive a car for a 6-12 months) and even if in that period they had a fault... there is no way for them to extrapolate it and tell whenever they are the only ones or if it is the only car with issue. They have sample size of 1! So I think reviews are fine as they are and with right perspective I was never mislead or misunderstood them. 

Take example of BMW E92 M3 vs. Lexus IS-F... or BMW F82 M4 vs. RC-F... were M3/M4s overall better cars? Yes... they were better suited for what they were designed to do, they handled better, they were faster, they were more pleasant to drive etc. etc. And for somebody with £80k burning the pocket brand new BMW M3/M4 was better buy. Not only they got more for their money, not only they enjoyed the cars more, but as well they kept more value and thus worked out cheaper. Yes that is true for 3-5 years old cars. However, if we do the same review now comparing 15 years old BMW M3 and 15 years old IS-F, then even same reviewers would make totally different conclusions, because M3 is just disaster waiting to happen, whereas IS-F despite not being on the edge in every aspect it is reliable car which can be enjoyed to this day. 

The thing is - people simply do not buy brand new cars in cash and do not keep them for 10 years... this is simply not how majority of cars are sold and therefore not relevant for the motoring press and I would argue for average buyer either. It is only relevant for car enthusiast who buy used cars and keep them for long time which is minority of buyers and importantly, they are NOT important for car companies as they directly do no contribute anything to their companies. 

[dutchie01]

So, reliability for new cars is not so important? I beg to differ as not all new cars are leased or fleet vehicles. There is a large part of the market that buys new privately. I am slowly slowly nearing my retirement so will have to buy a private car for myself for the first time since 1987.. The number one topic for me will be reliability as i do not want to fork out my reduced income to silly repairs. So the choice will be Toyota or Lexus as far i can oversee it now. Toyota s number one salesargument is the world famous reliabilty of the cars and this made them the number one worldwide. Kia/Hyundai saw sales grow rapidly when they started with an 8 yr warranty. Fiat and Alfa saw sales collapse because of bad reliability and wasnt it the Chairman/MD of range rover that told the press they are missing 100,000 orders p.a. because potential customers have no faith in their reliabilty?

[Rabbers]

28 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

….  so will have to buy a private car for myself for the first time ... The number one topic for me will be reliability as i do not want to fork out my reduced income to silly repairs. So the choice will be Toyota or Lexus ….

That is exactly the scenario that LED me to buy my first Lexus.  And it was Lexus rather than Toyota because the quality and “prestige” were closer to what company cars had accustomed me.  I have been congratulating myself for the goodness of my choice ever since. 

[Mr Vlad]

Your post Linas where you said the BMW M3 is a better car than the RCF because its faster and quicker and handles better. I have to beg to differ. Just because a car is faster than another doesn't mean its better. If I had the money I'd have the RCF over the M3 because it looks oh so much better. The way one would feel in the RCF would be better but most of all the actual ride in the car would be better. The M3 suspension is hard and yes I've been in one a couple years ago. The sound system in the RCF wipes the floor with what BMW provide. 

As for the older models you're bang on in what you said 👍

[Las Palmas]

Linas is right. Lexus buyers are minority.

That is part of why Lexus is not mainstream.

Toyota is, and I think that is what Toyota is going for. Getting more customers to go for Toyota instead of Lexus. New Prius is interesting.

It is hard to have too many models and competition from Korea is biting. New cars from Hyundai are interesting.

Toyota is not going all electric. There is a reason. They want to stay on top of the car business market. When suddenly most of the EV's want new batteries in not very many years Toyota will have something to offer, as will GM, Hyundai and Mercedes. Audi, VW etc. group are a dying dinosaur.

[Spacewagon52]

A cracking thread with honest opinions. 

1) If you had to choose a NEW car that someone (company) else would pay for and you knew you were getting another new car in three years,  what would you choose?

2)   If you decided to buy a NEW car with your own money (an inheritance - pension pot - savings?) - what would you choose?

The two choices, I am sure, would be totally different!

MY CHOICE:-

1) BMW - MB - Tesla - Land Rover - Jaguar

2) Lexus / Toyota / Honda

 

What would you do?

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

So, reliability for new cars is not so important? I beg to differ as not all new cars are leased or fleet vehicles. There is a large part of the market that buys new privately. 

For me reliability is important, because I am not buying new and not even planning to buy new, but for new cars - yes it is not a major priority as long as it is "sufficient". Let's me clarify what sufficient actually means and it quickly becomes apparent why Alfa, Fiat or Rangerover is missing clients and why Hyundai/Kia gained them. For Alfa, Fiat or Rangerover the quality was or still is SO HORRIBLE that cars don't last even the first 3 years without major repair and that is an issue (so that is insufficient), however if car can survive first 3-5 years, then this argument becomes moot And BMW, Audi and MB can easily last that long (so it is sufficient). To illustrate it better - imagine Lexus offers 100 years warranty and costs £100k to buy, or it offers 10 years warranty and costs normal £40k to buy... which one would you take? Same here - for somebody buying MB now with clear intention to trade-it for new car in 3-5 years, 5 years warranty is all they need! 

Then we need to separate luxury and non-luxury brands - generally speaking median luxury car buyer is way more interested in performance, features and "luxury" than reliability, likewise median buyer of such cars is either rich enough to replace brand new car every few years or leases cars every few years, so again if car last 3-5 years... luxury car owners won't be impacted. Another important factor to understand - car manufacturers DO NOT care about used car market and what people buying used cars thinks about them. Honestly, if you not buying brand new, then you practically do not exist from their perspective... even nearly new cars sales are just "charity" for them, because profit margins are extremely thin... the only reason they are bothered at all is because PX helps them to shift new cars... that is all.

For economy cars like Kia/Hyundai and Toyota... the argument is completely different, reliability and running costs is much higher on the criteria list than it is for luxury brands, cars are more affordable so more people can buy them outright and less people need to finance them, likewise more people keep them for longer. So that becomes serious choice. Example of longer warranty really explains this very well - did Kia/Hyundai became more reliable due to increased warranty? NO. So really the only thing people care about is not if the car will break-down, but rather how much it will cost them out of pocket to fix it, this circles back to my previous point - most of luxury car buyers buys cars for 3-5 years and they are covered by warranty, as long as car does not break down excessively and does not leave owner stranded in the middle of nowhere (like Rangerovers), it really does not matter that car will turn itself in steaming pile of **** after 5 years / 60k miles. 

I understand your perspective, but reality is that people like you are absolute minority... just look at statistics and you will see that 60% of cars are leased and this proportion is even higher for luxury brands. Even the ones that are not leased are generally on some other form of financing. Very few people buy cars in cash and even fewer keep them for over 5 years. Now sure - retired people usually represents the demographics that has savings, has paid out mortgages, does not have child support costs and more likely just to buy cash and keep the cars for longer, however people buying new cars in such situation is still minority and paying outright likewise minority within minority. 

Finally, I am not taking anything away from Lexus - it is most reliable brand out there, 10 years warranty is unheard in luxury segment and can't be beaten... but as a matter of fact is does not really add much value to most of the buyers Lexus cares about. For Lexus is more of PR exercise to offer it, because their cars are build so well that they can actually last those 10 years without major warranted issues. The big problem that again - most of new luxury car buyers will not look for 10 years horizon and thus all this adds very little value. I honestly cannot care less that ES300h will last me 10 years and it will be warranted, because I will NEVER buys such cars as it simply does not interest me... yet I would gladly buy RC350 with 5 years warranty for the same price... Lexus would capture larger market if they would offer wider range of models, more engine and transmission options and just generally better price... even if that would make their cars as fragile as competition and would virtually turn them in pile of crap after 5 years. It would be wasteful and it would be immoral compared to what they doing now, but that is what consumerism is about and that is what it would make them mainstream. Their current strategy as commendable, but as it is makes them niche players...

[Spacewagon52]

How did the people, taking part in this thread, first come to Lexus?

Did any of you buy one as a company car choice?

How many of you bought new for your FIRST Lexus?

Lexus is a very unusual brand, where wealthy people can enjoy a new car and less affluent owners can own an older luxury brand without breaking the bank on repairs.

Yes, there are risks, even with Lexus but far less so than other makes.

Interestingly, the BIG complaint here seems to be choice, not quality.

My first Lexus was a Mk3 LS400 which cost £2200. I was messing myself after buying it!

Why had I bought a large V8 barge that was probably going to cost me a fortune when it went wrong?  Was I stupid? No, just incredibly lucky to have discovered such a fantastic brand. 

[wharfhouse]

12 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

How did the people, taking part in this thread, first come to Lexus?

Did any of you buy one as a company car choice?

How many of you bought new for your FIRST Lexus?

Lexus is a very unusual brand, where wealthy people can enjoy a new car and less affluent owners can own an older luxury brand without breaking the bank on repairs.

Yes, there are risks, even with Lexus but far less so than other makes.

Interestingly, the BIG complaint here seems to be choice, not quality.

My first Lexus was a Mk3 LS400 which cost £2200. I was messing myself after buying it!

Why had I bought a large V8 barge that was probably going to cost me a fortune when it went wrong?  Was I stupid? No, just incredibly lucky to have discovered such a fantastic brand. 

In 2016 I was looking for a new car after a string of BMWs (some company cars and more latterly private purchases). I had got bored of BMW so wanted something more left field. Came across the IS 300h and thought that had many of the qualities I wanted but more left field than the German marques. Also the hybrid tech was something that was making more sense to me at the time and Toyota / Lexus were clearly well ahead of anyone else. After plenty of research I had a days test drive in an IS 300h and liked it so much I didn't want to wait for a new one to be delivered so bought a two year old one (for cash) with a view to ordering a new one within a few years. Unfortunately Lexus didn't bring the next rev model into the UK which I would have bought. I like what I have so much though I can't think of anything I want instead... So for the forseeable future I plan to keep what I have and so the long term reliability has now become more important than what I envisaged when I bought it! 

[Linas.P]

4 hours ago, Spacewagon52 said:

How did the people, taking part in this thread, first come to Lexus?

Kind of weird reason... I didn't know what Lexus was and what they were about, but I travelled often and always rented luxury cars. Once I was renting MB C-Class and as usual they say "or equivalent" and when I turned-up they gave me the keys of IS250... I was devastated, I felt cheated and it wasn't the first time... once before another company gave me Alfa Romeo 159 in Portugal instead of MB C-Class and I am thinking "damn, not again... I paid for Luxury car and they giving me some sort of badge engineered Toyota"... anyhow I was in rush or whatever so I didn't make a huge scene, just took the keys... and I loved the car, it was way better then C-Class, way better than BMW 3-Series. It felt more solid, it sounded better, it was better on fuel, the sound system was great, the leather was soft... honestly surprised me. So this is how I find out about the brand.

My first Lexus came later - that year as I had to get company car, it was family business, but it did a lot of government consulting... so having BMW or MB was not an option because it would attack wrong attention (suspicion of corruption). Note: money was not the problem the image was the problem. I guess Audi would have been ok, but I just hated Audis for long time, never liked that brand... but I knew this little Lexus secret. So I got the Lexus, because nobody knows what it is... those who knows just thinks is weird Toyota and it attacks no "expensive" brand image so it was fine. It was 2012 and mk2 was basically on the way out, so I got best deal ever on brand new IS250 F-Sport, apparently it was some sort of unofficial "final-edition" with every single option, so that was my first Lexus.

5 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

Your post Linas where you said the BMW M3 is a better car than the RCF because its faster and quicker and handles better. I have to beg to differ. Just because a car is faster than another doesn't mean its better. If I had the money I'd have the RCF over the M3 because it looks oh so much better. The way one would feel in the RCF would be better but most of all the actual ride in the car would be better. The M3 suspension is hard and yes I've been in one a couple years ago. The sound system in the RCF wipes the floor with what BMW provide. 

Well the market would clearly disagree with you - look at the numbers of M3/M4s sold and IS-F/RC-Fs. As well don't forget that many many people hates how RC-F looks (and generally the new Lexus designs), there is running joke on US Lexus forum - "what is the best part of owning RC-F - if you crash it nobody will notice, because it came crashed from the factory". 

I personally, love how RC-F looks and like you I would choose it over M4... and not only because of the looks, but because I much prefer NA V8 over any turbo engines. The rest is really subjective - many people buy performance cars because they actually care about performance and BMW is just better car in that regard. RC-F is really confused GT car, it is great and I would gladly own one, but it is confused - it is kind of size of the sports car with small boot and small rear seats, sports car built quality and overall sports car looks, but it drives more like GT car, more cruiser than it is handler. And if people are after sports car then M4 is just better... and if people after more of a GT car just to cruise on the motorway then RC-F isn't great either... RC350 is way more suitable for that. 

I think other thing which needs to be appreciated - Lexus global line-up only works when it is whole, Lexus 100% makes sense in US... where RC200t (so called 300) is genuinely cheap in US, then they have 300 AWD which actually comes with 3L V6, then there is 350 both AWD and RWD and RC-F.... and when you have this whole range suddenly everyone has something to choose. And let's not forget the price of RC-F in US is equivalent to BMW 440i M-Sport, the M4 costs ~$10k more than RC-F. So then it is suddenly clear why Lexus is successful there and not here. In UK when we get just crumbs and Lexus is suddenly more expensive rather than cheaper, then of course they can't compete and become mainstream.

[Bluemarlin]

5 hours ago, Spacewagon52 said:

How did the people, taking part in this thread, first come to Lexus?

By accident really. Most of my driving life has involved company cars, the last two being a Jaguar X Type and then an XF. When it came to buying a car for myself I bought an XK8, as I liked Jags and had always fancied one. Then, around 18 months ago, after I got tired of expensive repair bills, mounting rust, and impending ULEZ charges, I fancied a change.

I was also tired of bending down to get into a car, and for a long time had wanted an SUV. Lexus had never really entered my thinking, but I searched on Autotrader for ULEZ compliant SUVs and a host of varying RXs came up. After reading up on their reliabilty record, and how comfortable they seemed to be inside, my mind was made up, and I haven't regretted my decision.

[Las Palmas]

10 hours ago, Spacewagon52 said:

Retired, wanted something to keep after very many years and km in a 2005 Golf 2.0tdi DSG. Wife looked at a CT, liked it and we bought one. I knew it was dependable and though expensive also with a lot of "extras" that would have made many other brands just as expensive.

We do our best to keep it looking like when bought it and though from October 2016 (Lexus here call it a 2017 model) it still looks new and never have cost more than service, drive-through-wash, gasoline and tyres.

Only thing to disappoint is that here fuel consumption is far worse than the Golf. Hybrid is not for mountains and when hydrogen gets available here the CT will be gone.

How did the people, taking part in this thread, first come to Lexus?

Did any of you buy one as a company car choice?

How many of you bought new for your FIRST Lexus?

Lexus is a very unusual brand, where wealthy people can enjoy a new car and less affluent owners can own an older luxury brand without breaking the bank on repairs.

Yes, there are risks, even with Lexus but far less so than other makes.

Interestingly, the BIG complaint here seems to be choice, not quality.

My first Lexus was a Mk3 LS400 which cost £2200. I was messing myself after buying it!

Why had I bought a large V8 barge that was probably going to cost me a fortune when it went wrong?  Was I stupid? No, just incredibly lucky to have discovered such a fantastic brand. 

Retired, wanted something to keep after having kept for very many years and km a 2005 Golf 2.0tdi DSG. Wife looked at a CT, liked it and we bought one. I knew it was dependable and though expensive also with a lot of "extras" that would have made many other brands just as expensive.

We do our best to keep it looking like when bought it and though from October 2016 (Lexus here call it a 2017 model) it still looks new and never have cost more than service, drive-through-wash, gasoline and tyres.

Only thing to disappoint is that here fuel consumption is far worse than the Golf. Hybrid is not for mountains and when hydrogen gets available here the CT will be gone.

[Spacewagon52]

Thank you Phil, Linus, Bill and John. That is very interesting, because you came to the brand by accident. A conversation I had with a Lexus salesman reinforces your joint experience. he said, "All we need to sell more cars is to get people to enter the showroom!" Once they are shown / demonstrated the Lexus product they will purchase.

Giving extended test drives / loan for 24 hours is one option. I suppose the downside would be tyre kickers, who want a free car for the day. Unfortunately with Lexus that is only part of the "capture" of a customer. People, who do not know the brand, need to own the car for at least 3 months to fully appreciate the quality of these cars.

Not that many people would justify hiring a car to see what it is like.

If dealers can get them in a Lexus, even an older one, they would be hooked. I also agree with Linus, there is still snob value rfegarding MB and BMW / Audi.

[Las Palmas]

25 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

Thank you Phil, Linus, Bill and John. That is very interesting, because you came to the brand by accident. A conversation I had with a Lexus salesman reinforces your joint experience. he said, "All we need to sell more cars is to get people to enter the showroom!" Once they are shown / demonstrated the Lexus product they will purchase.

When you come into Lexus here you have to ask for Lexus, as all that is in the showroom : Toyota Cars. Lots of Toyota cars. Not one Lexus. They are another place in town. So coming in there mean you are supposed to be looking at : Toyota cars.

[wharfhouse]

1 hour ago, Spacewagon52 said:

Thank you Phil, Linus, Bill and John. That is very interesting, because you came to the brand by accident. A conversation I had with a Lexus salesman reinforces your joint experience. he said, "All we need to sell more cars is to get people to enter the showroom!" Once they are shown / demonstrated the Lexus product they will purchase.

Giving extended test drives / loan for 24 hours is one option. I suppose the downside would be tyre kickers, who want a free car for the day. Unfortunately with Lexus that is only part of the "capture" of a customer. People, who do not know the brand, need to own the car for at least 3 months to fully appreciate the quality of these cars.

Not that many people would justify hiring a car to see what it is like.

If dealers can get them in a Lexus, even an older one, they would be hooked. I also agree with Linus, there is still snob value rfegarding MB and BMW / Audi.

I think that can be one of the biggest influencers to change - it certainly was in my case. Until one can try the car in a number of different everyday scenarios it's really difficult to appreciate the qualities. A 10 minute test drive with a sales person is certainly no where near enough.

[Bluemarlin]

1 hour ago, Spacewagon52 said:

If dealers can get them in a Lexus, even an older one, they would be hooked. I also agree with Linus, there is still snob value rfegarding MB and BMW / Audi.

With rise of finance options, and the offer of "entry level" models, I think the snob value is diminishing with these brands. There are lots of people who will buy an entry level, lowest spec Mercedes, just to be able to say they own one, which ultimately diminishes the brand's snob value. Not that those brands care if they're getting substantially increased volumes.

Lexus, on the other hand, don't have to produce entry level, or gateway cars under the Lexus brand, as they have Toyota. So, whilst they may wish to capture more market share at the premium end, I'm not sure they'd want to be any more mainstream than they are.

[Malc1]

57 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

That is very interesting, because you came to the brand by accident

ME  TOO

being made redundant from NatWest I bought my Vx Carlton for peanuts as my ex company car and ran that for ages .  to about 215k miles actually ..  brilliant car back in the early 90's  ....  then as an afterthought and to stave off boredom, my time with a local 2ndhand car sales business took root and I thoroughly enjoyed that time too

Never understanding why someone would ever want to p/ex their brilliant used car for another off my forecourt, but hey, people will always want to spend their money on cars 

We then bought in a used brilliant  Ls400  J54DAP  thinking to sell it to a local astute business guy . a renowned Romney Marsh turf grower ........

Anyway, he bought a Mercedes from us instead and we were left with this supposed gaz guzzler which, coz of the petrol world mayhem at that time meant it was going to sit on our forecourt for ever and a day .  or straight down to the auction lot to offload

Thankfully we kept her in stock and I decided to use her and wow, wot an amazing car experience 

And as you all know, my very first Ls400, which I pensioned off at 186 k ?? and then bought my next one from a multi used car marque dealer in Windsor and following her write-off replaced her with the Ls400 I now have ( from a member on here at that time too ) .........  now some 23 years and 250k miles probably with an Ls400

hahahahaha, the new yet to be created Ls700 hydrogen might be my next foray into car spending mode 🤣

Malc

[First_Lexus]

14 hours ago, Spacewagon52 said:

A cracking thread with honest opinions. 

1) If you had to choose a NEW car that someone (company) else would pay for and you knew you were getting another new car in three years,  what would you choose?

2)   If you decided to buy a NEW car with your own money (an inheritance - pension pot - savings?) - what would you choose?

The two choices, I am sure, would be totally different!

MY CHOICE:-

1) BMW - MB - Tesla - Land Rover - Jaguar

2) Lexus / Toyota / Honda

 

What would you do?

I’d had dreadful experiences with German cars - yes, all within the first three years - as had members of my family and friends. Various Audi gearbox failures, a VW DSG failure at 40k miles, Audi A6 needing not one but TWO new engines (!) and a Skoda Octavia that was broken more than it ever worked (that ‘brilliant’ DSG gearbox again!). I could add poor quality trim, wiper motor failures, transfer boxes and a sat nav screen failure amongst other things, but you get the idea…all low mileage too. Based on discussions with various dealers trying to fix the cars I’m not convinced we were that unlucky either!

Unsurprisingly we all ended up driving Japanese marques, myself Honda. After three - an Accord and two CR-V - I fancied a change. Looked at a Mazda and the Lexus NX. Preferred the NX, had two and now onto my RX.

[Las Palmas]

22 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

VW DSG failure at 40k miles

Unlucky I guess. The 2.0tdi DSG 2005 Golf we had did 200K Km without anything but ordinary service.

[First_Lexus]

1 hour ago, Las Palmas said:

Unlucky I guess. The 2.0tdi DSG 2005 Golf we had did 200K Km without anything but ordinary service.

Lots of other people must have been ‘unlucky’ as well then. When mine was in for replacement the gearboxes were on back order as so many had failed…mine was fifth in line just at my local dealer. Understand it was so bad there were recalls in some countries but not in the uk…plenty in the press at the time. Never again!

Should add that the Tiguan did me one BIG favour. Once it was finally fixed (the gearbox, anyway) I had decided to get rid. I’d chosen a Mercedes C-Class estate…but the Tiguan broke down (again!) when I took it to the Mercedes dealer for them to appraise - that time something electrical had failed and it wouldn’t start.

While it was being fixed I saw the Honda Accord and decided to go Japanese from then on.

[DavidCM]

3 hours ago, Spacewagon52 said:

 

If dealers can get them in a Lexus, even an older one, they would be hooked. I also agree with Linus, there is still snob value rfegarding MB and BMW / Audi.

I'm repeating myself from a previous post,but I remember a Mercedes salesman telling me that Audi's were known as ar5eholes.. everybody's got one.