Redex - Aldi

[Vintagesixtysix]

In store today….

twin pack £2.49.

[AFlex]

Underrated product IMO.

Also helps protect against corrosion from E10 - or at least that's what they claim on the bottle...

[Linas.P]

8 hours ago, AFlex said:

Underrated product IMO.

Also helps protect against corrosion from E10 - or at least that's what they claim on the bottle...

That is the problem... they claim a lot of thing on the package, but it is not very clear how true they are and in what circumstances. 

As for corrosion from E10, there is no such thing... if E5 didn't corrode anything, then E10 does not corrode anything either. This kind of requires further context. Basically fuel with high ethanol content may absorb water if left in the tank for very long time... that said 10% isn't "high ethanol content" and very long time is ~6-9 months... so it is questionable if one needs corrosion protection. More for classic cars I guess, but I doubt anyone runs E10 in classic cars anyway...

[Barry14UK]

I used to have the 'two shots of Redex upper cylinder lubricant' many years ago but oils have improved greatly since then.  Some people also used a very  high proportion of Redex as a way of decoking vehicles.  However, with catalytic converters, I understood the idea was to stop oil and crude passing through the converters to maintain  efficiency. 

As regards E10, there is a lot of information on how it adversely affects, gaskets, and seals and eats its way through rubber and has other downside effects.  The effect is magnified with the changed ratio of ethanol.  The presumption that E5 didn't do any harm is incorrect.  This was established when motor cyclists who had fiberglass petrol tanks were finding that they were delaminating.  Doubling the amount of ethanol in the mixture means it is not advisable to use in many older cars and there is some opinion that it may, albeit more slowly, detrimentally affect later cars. 

[Linas.P]

Most of Europe runs cars on E85, I am not saying ethanol does not have any effect (positive or negative), but it cannot be that great. If 17 times greater ethanol content does not kill IS250 then I don't really see why 2 times higher content would. 

It is well known (be it somewhat rumoured) that one should not leave ethanol in the tank for long time (that is E85), again how long it is somewhat debated, depends how full the tank is how much oxygen actually gets into the tanks, how cold/warm/humid it is, but consensus is that over the time ethanol will absorb some water. How much is again debatable, but any water in fuel is not good. So his is the argument about corrosion, basically some components may be fine in petrol, but may rust in water. Some argues that somehow ethanol pulls water out of seals ant thus dries them out and makes them brittle, but unless we talking about vintage cars and natural rubber seals I can't see this being the case either.  

As I said in the past I have run IS250 on E85 for thousands of miles (I think good guess would be 40k) and nothing has happened to it, now sure I have not disassembled fuel system before and after to confirm and inspect, so it is only anecdotal evidence, but even if there was undue wear we talking micrometres. So if that is anything to go by, then 8.5 times less concentration of ethanol should be fine for over 320k miles.

That is not to say ethanol is better for cars or that anyone should ignore the manufacturer recommendations like I did and use ethanol, but the panic is unwarranted. And... importantly when it comes to additives I just kind of doesn't make sense additive can isolate all components from ethanol and make it safe to use. There are "conditioners" for diesel and petrol as well, which works in similar way and extends life of fuel already in the tank, but that should not be needed if the tanks is used at least in 3-6 months.

As for Redex in particular and IS250. The key issues is that 4GR-FSE has only direct injection, so 80% of what fuel additives could do automatically does not apply, because fuel never touches injectors or intake manifold and thus can't clean anything. The only thing it could do it to clean injectors, but the fuel itself should be cleaning them (ethanol is actually good way to clean injectors)... so despite using redex in the past I honestly cannot justify any reason to have it in the tank on IS250 in particular.  

[Mr Vlad]

I've never been a fan of Redex products. Can't remember what happened but a motorcycle at the time needed a repair after it was used. Put me and friends off for life.

[Sundance]

12 hours ago, Linas.P said:

That is the problem... they claim a lot of thing on the package, but it is not very clear how true they are and in what circumstances. 

As for corrosion from E10, there is no such thing... if E5 didn't corrode anything, then E10 does not corrode anything either. This kind of requires further context. Basically fuel with high ethanol content may absorb water if left in the tank for very long time... that said 10% isn't "high ethanol content" and very long time is ~6-9 months... so it is questionable if one needs corrosion protection. More for classic cars I guess, but I doubt anyone runs E10 in classic cars anyway...

That's a rather questionable statement regarding accuracy Linas, some might even say misleading, but whilst I realise that you have attempted a caveat in a secondary post I do think that further clarity would not go amiss, more particularly aimed at those users concerned about prolonged exposure to ethanol ...

https://www.bali.org.uk/help-and-advice/equipment/e10-fuel/

[Linas.P]

2 minutes ago, Sundance said:

That's a rather questionable statement regarding accuracy Linas, some might even say misleading, but whilst I realise that you have attempted a caveat in a secondary post I do think that further clarity would not go amiss, more particularly aimed at those users concerned about prolonged exposure to ethanol ...

https://www.bali.org.uk/help-and-advice/equipment/e10-fuel/

First of all taking fuel advice from the landscaping association seems strange - was that first link which fit your narrative? I am sure they are good at landscaping, but who makes them qualified to advise on fuel?! Are they experts in the field (no pun intended), I guess they may have specific needs - like specific landscaping equipment being parked-up for months when not in season? But then we need to put into context and think if that applies to the cars...

Secondly, again they mention fuel separation. I already mentioned that in both of my posts - yes ethanol is known for absorbing water and yes fuel separation will eventually happen in E5, E10 and E85. The question is how long it takes and the answer for this is at very least months if not years! So the advise goes - don't leave ethanol for months in the tank!

I mean sure - if left outside, on the sun in a cup then maybe 1 month is enough for to separate, maybe even week. But car fuel tank is mostly sealed, not 100%, but ethanol isn't exposed directly to elements either. Besides this would impact both E5 and E10 (and 100% petrol as well - all fuel has some water in it, just very small amounts), the only difference is that E10 will have double the water (or same amount in the half of time) because obviously there is double the ethanol to react with oxygen. Yet again - what about E85 then? I should have had tank half-full of water after running E85 if we talking about weeks on E10? 

So to conclude where we getting at - don't leave any fuel in the tank for long time, long being months. That is true for any fuel and any car and that is just common sense... and if for petrol 1 years is probably the limit, so for fuel with ethanol halve it to 6 months, for E85 I would not be comfortable leaving it in the tank for longer than 3 months. But again context matters - cars are not normally parked-up for 3 months at the time... and if they are then make sure to leave empty tank or at least fuel without ethanol, or use fuel conditioner. Not rocket scienience.

I personally don't like fuel with ethanol, but for completely different reasons - like that it contains less of actual fuel. For example the reason why in Europe I was running E85 was that it was generally 30% cheaper than E95... so it contains 25% less fuel and it is 30% cheaper... I call it good deal! If E10 is not 10% cheaper then I consider it scam, secondly car obviously loses some power... it is basically the same thing either consumption is higher or power is lower, or usually both... and that is not good! I hate that in UK E10 replaced E95 like for like with the same price, that is just bad deal. But the stories about exploding engines and water in the tanks and all other scaremongering - that are extreme cases which do not apply for everyone. Like everything what is too much is not good - if you get tank full of E85 and use it within week, then no harm will be caused, thank full of E10 and use it within month - same thing, but if you leave the car parked-up for 2 years then don't be surprised when it won't start because fuel has gone bad... or don't put E10 into some classic car from 60s, than won't be a happy story either, but within a reason it is safe fuel to use, if used within 99% of normal circumstances.

Note: I am using E5/10/85 as 5/10/85% of ethanol, but it isn't strictly true as it is "up-to", so E10 could have 5% ethanol E5 could have 0% and E85 can be 40-60%, as well not to be confused with old marking of E92/E95/E98 because those generally had no ethanol, but then again E98 sometimes used to have ~2-5% ethanol as additive to increase octane rating so...

[Sundance]

Clearly the topic reaches a far wider audience than simply those at the pumps ... 😉