Car Care Nut. Lexus Specialist. Rates is250 WORST Lexus

[Mr Vlad]

I'm sure some of you know of the YouTube mechanic Car Care Nut. He's a well respected Lexus specialist and his latest video was a best of and worst of Lexus cars. To my utter dismay his opinion of which Lexus is the worst blew me away and my respect for him went out of the window. His reason was simple. Direct Injection.                                                    Now this must prove the point that the cars they have in America must suffer greatly for one reason or another. The issue of fuel has been discussed numerous times. 

Personally the best Lexus car ive had is my current is250 and i wholeheartedly disagree with Mr Car Care Nut.

What do you think?

[Steve]

he cannot call himself a specialist then. IS250 auto was one of the best Lexus I have owned. 

IS220d worst lol 

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, Steve said:

IS220d worst lol 

Really strange. Here I see a lot of old 200 and 220 diesels and they all have one thing in common. No black smoke from them, not even uphill, and here uphill is uphill. Not one used for sale, meaning that those having one will not sell. Most other old diesels have clouds of black smoke uphill. The Golf 2.0tdi DSG 2005 we had and kept till past 200.000km smoked so much that it was not funny having it. Think the reason people keep their old smoking diesels is that they are cheap in fuel. Here with very steep up and down our CT use around 7L/100km while the Golf managed same driving with around 5L.

[Shahpor]

Which video does he refer to this in please?

[Mr Vlad]

this one

 

[H3XME]

2 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

I'm sure some of you know of the YouTube mechanic Car Care Nut. He's a well respected Lexus specialist and his latest video was a best of and worst of Lexus cars. To my utter dismay his opinion of which Lexus is the worst blew me away and my respect for him went out of the window. His reason was simple. Direct Injection.                                                    Now this must prove the point that the cars they have in America must suffer greatly for one reason or another. The issue of fuel has been discussed numerous times. 

Personally the best Lexus car ive had is my current is250 and i wholeheartedly disagree with Mr Car Care Nut.

What do you think?

well.. IS350 would be better then, they have port as well

[Mr Vlad]

Yes Lucas. He rates the is350 most highly. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ahmed24]

I think he's from Illinois, America. And people from America generally look down on the IS250 as the rubbish version to the 350. In my experience and having contact and discussion with lots of american customers buying stuff from me this is mainly because in america the 250's seem to suffer from a lot of carbon buildup issues not to mention they find the 250 as underpowered compared to the 350. Ofcourse if we had the 350 available in europe that will be the better choice. But by no means is the 250 a bad car. I've owned my 2006 250 since 2007 and clocked almost 200k miles on it and still runs silky smooth. I do my own maintenance and it's been the best car to maintain and work on too.

The 250 is direct injection only and the 350 is direct and port injection. So this helps the 350 not to suffer the carbon issues that the 250 is plagued with. In Europe (well at least in UK) we don't seem to have this issue, maybe our fuels are better. I stick to using E5 and never use E10.

 

 

[eleveneleven]

I don't agree but it makes sense why he would say that. 

America didn't get the 220/200D so he has no experience with that engine

It seems like Carbon build up was more of an issue in the USA, than it was in UK/Europe probably because there's a lot more 250's on the road there. Americans do a lot more miles on average than us so they were likely first to experience these issues.. Weather conditions are also very diverse The cars in hotter parts of the US like Miami had melting dashboards. Again we didn't really get that here. 

Lexus are on the whole very reliable (diesels aside) there's not many other engines in their line up that could potentially kill itself over time. especially one fitted to one of the most popular Lexus Models ever made

If we don't agree that the IS is one of the worst models in the line up based on its engine, What Model(s) would people here have chosen? (Diesels aside) 

[Mr Vlad]

Good question Lee and one I think needs its own thread. But my answer is the CT. To me it's just not a Lexus.

Oh and I think that guy is in Chicago which is it in illinois?

 

[Linas.P]

5 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

I'm sure some of you know of the YouTube mechanic Car Care Nut. He's a well respected Lexus specialist and his latest video was a best of and worst of Lexus cars. To my utter dismay his opinion of which Lexus is the worst blew me away and my respect for him went out of the window. His reason was simple. Direct Injection.                                                    Now this must prove the point that the cars they have in America must suffer greatly for one reason or another. The issue of fuel has been discussed numerous times. 

Personally the best Lexus car ive had is my current is250 and i wholeheartedly disagree with Mr Car Care Nut.

What do you think?

Well... he is kind of right... but just kind of. I think perspective matters here!

First thing we need to note - he is looking from American perspective, so over there they don't have IS220d... so the definitely worst Lexus by million miles is eliminated. Going from there all Lexus are rather excellent so it is very hard to fault them. Starting from original V8 4L and later 4.3L and 4.6L versions are all bulletproof. 5L V8 and V10 are legendary... the GR series V6 started with 2GR-FSE and it is award winning and excellent engine.

So what we have left? 3GR, 4GR, the 2.5L hybrid engine and 2L turbo. In terms of pure reliability I would suspect 2AR-FSE (the hybrid I4 banger) is most reliable, but as well it is most under-powered and boring lump, it won't die but you will die from boredom. Then I would say 4GR and 3GR are equal and kind of equally bad because of DI, because unlike 2GR they don't have port injection and have well known and documented carbon build-up issue (for some reason seems to plague US cars more, perhaps due to extreme mileages they do). I would rank 4GR just hair above 3GR, because 4GR is ever so slightly more efficient engine using less fuel and making more power per cubic litre of displacement ,but they are equally "bad". finally I think the worst Lexus on sale in US is 2L Turbo 8AR-FTS (or as I like to call it 8-FARTS). Yes it is still relatively new, but I am sure that long term it will be second most unreliable engine only after diesel which US never got (lucky them).

In summary, yes IS250 is the most common and one of the least reliable Lexus they have in US, but that does not mean it is "bad"... if we rank cars by reliability and we put LS400 as 10/10 and IS220d as maybe 6/10, then IS250 is easily 9.5/10 with rest of Lexus line-up fitting in tiny gap between 9.5-10/10. So on one hand - yes it is true IS250 "second worst car Lexus sold in US", but in other hand it is literally 9.5/10 in reliability and beats many other cars by miles. I think realistically only Honda/Acura has anything in that range and obviously Toyota itself... and all other cars are worse. We basically talking about the "last car in top 10 best cars". 

[Bluemarlin]

To be fair, no matter how good Lexus cars are, one must be the worst. Whether that's the IS250 I don't know, but it's still possibly/probably better than other makes/models.

Maybe it's better to be the worst of a good bunch, than the best of a bad one.

[Mr Vlad]

Good points Linas and Bill. I get confused with the engine designations. However Linas you mentioned the 4 pot hybrid being gutless! That engine is the UX250H and that car is one I absolutely love. Goes like stink if you want it to and oh so economical. Great handling too.

[Rabbers]

That Tony Soprano gave his daughter Meadow an IS250 is praise enough for anybody …

[Linas.P]

49 minutes ago, Bluemarlin said:

Maybe it's better to be the worst of a good bunch, than the best of a bad one.

I think that summarises IS250 well, no it is not LS400 and not even IS350, but it is way way better than say comparable BMW 325i or MB C300 of the era. It is easily beats even best BMW and MB in terms of reliability, and for the price it beats them on power, economy, build quality and list of equipment. It isn't best Lexus, but it great car overall.

That said - apply some neglect to any car and it could turn horrible, but within reason IS250 beats most of other makes.

[dutchie01]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

I think that summarises IS250 well, no it is not LS400 and not even IS350, but it is way way better than say comparable BMW 325i or MB C300 of the era. It is easily beats even best BMW and MB in terms of reliability, and for the price it beats them on power, economy, build quality and list of equipment. It isn't best Lexus, but it great car overall.

 

Spot on Linas, i loved my 250, did 150k km in it and not even a lightbulb.. It is the sum of things with the bank vault build quality, silent and smooth engine and the feel the car gives you. Definately more Lexus than Toyota in this one. One day i might buy one again.

[Thelongterm]

16 hours ago, Rabbers said:

That Tony Soprano gave his daughter Meadow an IS250 is praise enough for anybody …

Oh, he gave her some other cars 'He got', not that she was happy 😉 

 

[SeanR]

From what i gather that Carbon build up issue is not that much of an issue, it can be sorted out quite cheaply.

I say that in contrast to issues that other manufacturers have where you are spending £1000,s to put things right.

Spent time on Mercedes and BMW forums, many expensive issues.

A guy in work bought a 5 year old Golf with 45,000 miles on the clock. Its losing coolant, only had it a month. Garage fobbing him off telling him the warranty will sort it, told him find another garage as they are too busy. Anyways, i takes a look and has a google. Water pumps can go at 40000ish miles!!!. Not only that but his coolant looks a rather unusual milky colour.

I guess it has already been said. 

Was joking with a pal about forums. On here you get the likes of me moaning about wipers and window seals coming up when you put the windows up, the odd more serious issue, never issues with snapped timing chains etc you find on other forums.

On a side note. Was talking to an engineer in work about how parts are not made like they used to be. He showed me 2 bearings and said hold them . It was obvious one was heavier than the other. Manufacturers are now cutting corners and building stuff with inferior pars, this is the same for a lot of stuff, including motors. Stuff that used to be manufactured in Germany now made in China, and so on.

[H3XME]

On 12/19/2022 at 6:47 PM, Linas.P said:

finally I think the worst Lexus on sale in US is 2L Turbo 8AR-FTS (or as I like to call it 8-FARTS). Yes it is still relatively new, but I am sure that long term it will be second most unreliable engine only after diesel which US never got (lucky them)

I'd agree, statistically speaking, turbo engines have added problems compared to N/A cars. Though, I've heard no horror stories about those engines yet.. who knows, it may just be as good of an engine as Golf R 2.0l or other 2.0l turbo 4 pots. Unexplored territory and it will probably stay that way because that engine isn't exactly in anything fun people would like to mess with. UK has about 7 RC200t and 3 IS200t lol, but who knows. It's a toyota engine

[Linas.P]

9 hours ago, H3XME said:

I'd agree, statistically speaking, turbo engines have added problems compared to N/A cars. Though, I've heard no horror stories about those engines yet.. who knows, it may just be as good of an engine as Golf R 2.0l or other 2.0l turbo 4 pots. Unexplored territory and it will probably stay that way because that engine isn't exactly in anything fun people would like to mess with. UK has about 7 RC200t and 3 IS200t lol, but who knows. It's a toyota engine

I guess same applies as with IS250. It isn't best Lexus engine, but that does not mean it is bad engine overall.. it is worst of the best. It definitely not going to be as bad as IS220d... I mean that is universally bad engine even outside of Lexus brand. Whereas 200t will likely be one of the worse engines Toyota/Lexus made yet generally reliable engine compared to the rest of the market. 

Besides I think 8FARTS is bad not only because of reliability (it may actually be reliable), but rather because it has no redeeming features at all.. it is just extremely inefficient engine without any good features and it has failed to achieve what it meant to achieve, so it failed in that regard even if it could run for a million miles. I genuinely consider it as waste of time and money, as Toyota poured like billion dollars into it's development, they had these big plans of making "modular" engine which could then be turned into TT V8 4L, T L6 3L, TT V6 4L, T  L3 1.5L and so on... yet they only ever used it in form of 8FARTS. Developing 240HP from 2L turbo isn't anything to brag about (MB get's near 500HP), it has some torque (350NM is average), but it doesn't like to rev and is generally just lazy lump not good at anything. It isn't economical for sure, and it isn't powerful or fun to drive... so it is a bit of nothing overall. Why it even exists and how Toyota or the world benefited from it's development is a bit of mystery?!

[Las Palmas]

On 12/19/2022 at 6:47 PM, Linas.P said:

 In terms of pure reliability I would suspect 2AR-FSE (the hybrid I4 banger) is most reliable, but as well it is most under-powered and boring lump, it won't die but you will die from boredom. 

I do not know who will die from boredom, but if it is the most reliable then perhaps somebody will think that it is the very best to be brought from one place to another with. Not all want a super powered car, and those that chose Lexus, I think, will mostly buy the car because of its reliability and comfort.

If somebody want a sports car, then Lexus is not the right brand. Lexus have never made one as far as I know. Some very powered luxury cars, but no sports cars. When Mercedes made the 300SEL 6.3 it was the fastest of that kind in the world and none of those buying it bought it to use as a sports car. Had one as company car, and actually it was not funny, it was comfortable, could not be in our garage, too long, finding parking places to it was not easy, even then, when there were far fewer cars on the roads compared with today. Something not many that have not been driving it will know: driving in rain windshield-wipers were no good in speed faster than 90 - 100 km/h.

Today, with actual speed limits, I see no reason to buy a car that can drive from zero to no longer having a driver's license in3 seconds.

But to each their own.

Our little CT is by far not the most fun car we have had, the list ahead of the CT, when sporty is mentioned, is very long, but it brings us from where we are to where we are interested in going, nowhere near as efficient in fuel as ads claim, but rather comfortable and absolutely not slow. It can easily drive fast enough to give speeding tickets, which we are not at all wishing to get.

[Linas.P]

41 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

but if it is the most reliable then perhaps somebody will think that it is the very best to be brought

Just to be clear - I didn't say it is "the most reliable engine made by Lexus", only "the most reliable from the 4 engines which falls short of being called good". So that makes it 4th least reliable engine in US, but just slightly better than other 3. I may need to be more careful explaining it in future. Besides even if I think that 2AR-FSE is more reliable engine than 3GR/4GR-FSE and 8FARTS, that does not mean that 300h as a platform is more reliable. Simply having that hybrid system makes it way more complex and risky long term than pure-petrol options. Not to say IS300h for example isn't very reliable car, but it is inherently more complex and thus less dependable than IS250/300, even if just engine alone perhaps is better. I mean to all that context is required... so 2AR-FSE does not have carbon build-up problems, which means it does not lead into other premature wear problems, so because of that it is better than 3GR/4GR-FSE... but it has electric Battery and complex eCVT system connected to it, which if goes wrong makes repairs uneconomical. That isn't an issue 3GR/4GR-FSE where engine can simply be replaced for $600, or even together with gearbox for $1000. 

In the end of the day, I think we (including myself) are splitting hairs here - all Lexus cars are amazingly reliable, so it is really hard to go wrong. Yes Lexus has one exception and that is IS220d/200d - they made that mistake and they never made another diesel car, I reckon they learned from their mistake. But as for the rest of Lexus they can all be recommended as far as reliability is concerned.

The reason we have this discussion is because of some american who has clearly oversaturated the topic and took the topic out of context without explaining it properly. He looked at Lexus/Toyota line-up in US only in isolation as if no other makes exists and no other countries exists. Then he correctly identified the problem for IS250, but he made that problem way bigger than it is, didn't explain under what circumstances it happens, nor that it could be avoided or mitigated. I mean I do understand and appreciate where he is coming from - that is "this engine theoretically and inherently flawed", but he completely failed to consider practical consequences of that and completely failed to explain the perspective which means for average viewer it gave wrong impression as if somehow IS250 is "horror story". To be fair to him - he just had ramble on the internet, he needs to make his content interesting to watch and all these small details would have taken way too long to explain to keep any viewer interested and here we nit picking his every world. I think he even says himself "don't listen to every idiot on the internet" - and that is exactly the case. He had one simple and clear intention - review Lexus line-up from the best used deal to worst and he did that... overall he got it right LS400/430/GX470/GS350/IS350 are the most reliable cars ever made period... IS250 is not on the same league, it has some design faults which could bite... what he failed to explain is that he reviewing scale 9-10, not 0-10.

[Mr Vlad]

And breath

[Bluemarlin]

22 hours ago, Linas.P said:

To be fair to him - he just had ramble on the internet,

As if anyone would do that 😉