E-CVT oil

[Notamech]

Hi All. New to the forum and to Lexus in general. I just bought a used 2014 IS300h with 90k on the clock (independently serviced last couple of times) . So first thing i did is book it in with lexus for a major service in order to make sure my Relax warranty kicks back in. I mentioned wanting to change the cvt fluid then someone from the service dept calls me to ask me why i want it done and goes on to explain that its sealed for life and comes with a balance of chemicals from the factory that they dont recommend tampering with as it could cause problems in future. Coming from a merc i am very skeptical about sealed for life claims.. I plan to keep the car long term i.e another 5-6 years or another 50-60k.. So wanted advise on is it worth doing? Or should I just leave it alone? Also this dealership mentioned it would cost £250-300if i wanted it done while another dealership i called said £150 and didn't ask any questions or give any advice on not changing it. What have others here done? Has anyone faced problems after changing the oil. Or has anyone made it past 150/160k on the factory oil? 

[IS300FSPORT]

Look at it as preventative maintenance its not necessary but just for peace of mind. As long as there is no leak you have nothing to worry about. Plenty of cars go to the scrapyard without gearbox fluid change. Relax your driving a Lexus afterall.

These cars generally have an easy life popular in Taxis too. 

Keep eye on fill level and top up as necessary.

[Las Palmas]

Last service with our CT 80.100km Lexus changed the gearbox oil. I did not ask for it, in for yearly service. They did it without asking.

[Bluemarlin]

I had a "sealed for life" gearbox on a previous Jag, and it needed replacing at around 80k, so am wary of such claims. As such I had the eCVT fluid changed at 96k miles on my RX 450h. I don't think the eCVTs get as hard a life as a traditional auto box, but just did it for peace of mind.

In truth, I guess a transmission can fail with or without an oil change, so it's your call, but if you do the change then the £150 quote sounds reasonable.

[PRT68]

Self serviced my Prius taxi every 10000 miles. Never changed CVT oil. Sold it at 192k miles, still going strong at 224k miles. 

[Mikey B]

I have been a little dubious about "sealed for life" fluids, however, I also think that Lexus service schedules are a little OTT so if I think they had the slightest justification to charge for a fluid change they would.  On that basis I've not changed mine and its now at 233K on the original fluid - not sure now I will ever change it.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Mikey B
typo

[Notamech]

Wow... Great info. Sounds like at least a couple of you have gone very long with the original oil. Given that i plan to do another 50-60k might not be worth risking getting it done. Maybe like the dealership guy told me maybe it comes from the factory with a very balanced formula of additives or whatever that we shouldn't disturb. Would be interesting to know if anyone changed it and ran into any problems later. 

[wharfhouse]

14 hours ago, Mikey B said:

I have been a little dubious about "sealed for life" fluids, however, I also think that Lexus service schedules are a little OTT so if I think they had the slightest justification to charge for a fluid change they would.  On that basis I've not changed mine and its now at 233K on the original fluid - not sure now I will ever change it.

Interesting - I'm in your camp on this (and I know many will disagree) but I don't see why Lexus wouldn't stimulate a fluid change at eg 100k or 150k miles as they do with ICE coolant and inverter coolant if they felt it was needed -  certainly no more effort on the CVT than coolant. I'm at 125k now and don't plan changing the CVT fluid. Car is serviced by Lexus and will have 10 Year Plus Extended Warranty for at least a couple more years.

[Notamech]

Ok this is very strange. So i was going through the service book today and it says automatic transmission fluid needs to be inspected every 40000 miles / 4 years. Which i think means the workshop is meant to check it and top up if necessary. Surely that means that the same factory fluid is available at dealers to top up. So i dont see why any harm should come from changing the fluid. 

[wharfhouse]

6 minutes ago, Notamech said:

Ok this is very strange. So i was going through the service book today and it says automatic transmission fluid needs to be inspected every 40000 miles / 4 years. Which i think means the workshop is meant to check it and top up if necessary. Surely that means that the same factory fluid is available at dealers to top up. So i dont see why any harm should come from changing the fluid. 

Yes, it is checked as part of the service but not changed (unless there is a problem I assume). The fluid is AFAIK readily available through Lexus / Toyota - others here have changed their fluid. Changing it from what I have read is relatively straight forward. Getting Lexus to do it may require some arm twisting, depending on the dealer. If you went to an independent then only use the Lexus / Toyota fluid. Whether you are in the camp of it should be changed or in the camp of leave alone only you know!

[Notamech]

Yeah.. I'll admit. I certainly dont know more than Toyota engineers and my 'need' to want to change the cvt oil stems primarily from tradition. Everytime ive bought a used car the first thing I do is change the engine oil and transmission oil that provides me with a "perceived" peace of mind. But maybe technology has gotten to where we dont need to do it anymore. In the end I guess a hybrid drivetrain is definitely different from a regular gas/diesel car and hence requirements differ. 

[wharfhouse]

25 minutes ago, Notamech said:

Yeah.. I'll admit. I certainly dont know more than Toyota engineers and my 'need' to want to change the cvt oil stems primarily from tradition. Everytime ive bought a used car the first thing I do is change the engine oil and transmission oil that provides me with a "perceived" peace of mind. But maybe technology has gotten to where we dont need to do it anymore. In the end I guess a hybrid drivetrain is definitely different from a regular gas/diesel car and hence requirements differ. 

Having a full service done if you are not sure of the history is certainly a good thing. I think do whatever makes you feel comfortable regards the cvt. Given your relatively low mileage there should be no problem in changing the oil so long it's done correctly and the right Lexus / Toyota fluid is used but of course there is always the small risk that someone messes something up. Whether there is any long term benefit to changing it I don't think anyone really knows. As some said on here (and on other forums) cars seem to run happily to high mileages without a change. The design of the e-cvt is very different to a traditional auto box - very simple by comparison - even more so than a manual box. 

[Bluemarlin]

 

15 hours ago, Notamech said:

Yeah.. I'll admit. I certainly dont know more than Toyota engineers and my 'need' to want to change the cvt oil stems primarily from tradition. Everytime ive bought a used car the first thing I do is change the engine oil and transmission oil that provides me with a "perceived" peace of mind. But maybe technology has gotten to where we dont need to do it anymore. In the end I guess a hybrid drivetrain is definitely different from a regular gas/diesel car and hence requirements differ. 

Yes, it is different, and I believe subject to less wear than a regular transmission, so perhaps the lifetime claim is true, although I don't know what Lexus consider to be the lifetime of the car.

If it worries you, you could always ask the dealer to tell you the condition of the existing oil when they check it. When I had mine drained and filled, the specialist told me the cost would depend on how many drain and fills they'd need to do, based on the condition of the oil. They only did one as they said the oil was in pretty good condition, that was at 96k miles.

For short term peace of mind though, you still have the Relax warranty for a couple years and, if you're concerned beyond that, you could always take out the extended warranty after that, which would cover you until the car is 15 years old/150k miles, which appears to be how long you plan to keep the car.

[Spock66]

19 hours ago, Notamech said:

Yeah.. I'll admit. I certainly dont know more than Toyota engineers and my 'need' to want to change the cvt oil stems primarily from tradition.

Service requirements will be set by the accountants and marketeers not the engineers.

'Lifetime' means something like average age / mileage experienced by typical user before the vehicle is uneconomic to repair, not that it lasts forever.

[wharfhouse]

1 minute ago, Spock66 said:

Service requirements will be set by the accountants and marketeers not the engineers.

'Lifetime' means something like average age / mileage experienced by typical user before the vehicle is uneconomic to repair, not that it lasts forever.

I hear this argument and I understand that where they are trying to say it doesn't need changing during a typical lease period as it looks better from a cost of ownership. The CVT fluid will clearly last that long without a problem. But on the counter point what has Lexus (or the accountants) got to lose by specifying changing it at 100k or 150k miles which is usually beyond most lease periods and often 2nd or 3rd owners who would then be paying for the work like any other maintenance - they specify changing coolant at such intervals and changing the CVT fluid is no more involved.

[Notamech]

8 hours ago, Bluemarlin said:

 

Yes, it is different, and I believe subject to less wear than a regular transmission, so perhaps the lifetime claim is true, although I don't know what Lexus consider to be the lifetime of the car.

If it worries you, you could always ask the dealer to tell you the condition of the existing oil when they check it. When I had mine drained and filled, the specialist told me the cost would depend on how many drain and fills they'd need to do, based on the condition of the oil. They only did one as they said the oil was in pretty good condition, that was at 96k miles.

For short term peace of mind though, you still have the Relax warranty for a couple years and, if you're concerned beyond that, you could always take out the extended warranty after that, which would cover you until the car is 15 years old/150k miles, which appears to be how long you plan to keep the car.

Great advice. That does sound like a good plan. Do you know where I can find more info on the extended warranty? I don't see anything about it on the lexus website. Is that dealer specific? 

[wharfhouse]

8 hours ago, Notamech said:

Great advice. That does sound like a good plan. Do you know where I can find more info on the extended warranty? I don't see anything about it on the lexus website. Is that dealer specific? 

Here is a link to a thread I started about what is called the "10 Year Plus Extended Warranty". It's not advertised by Lexus through the website but is available to purchase through dealers (though is valid nationwide). However, not all dealer personnel are aware of it and so if they say it doesn't exist you might need to refer them back to Lexus to get the details - make sure you use the full name of the warranty as above and don't just refer to it as extended warranty which was an old product that is no longer available. Quite a few members on here have now taken this out through various different dealers. Note the car does need to be serviced during the warranty period by a Lexus dealer according to the service schedule for the warranty to remain valid and I would have thought that to put the warranty into place may require a service doing first at a dealer to check all is well with the car if it hasn't been serviced by Lexus dealer prior to requesting it. It also includes Lexus Roadside Assisstance in the annual cost. 

 

https://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic/130626-lexus-10-year-plus-extended-warranty/#comment-1206830

[Notamech]

2 hours ago, wharfhouse said:

Here is a link to a thread I started about what is called the "10 Year Plus Extended Warranty". It's not advertised by Lexus through the website but is available to purchase through dealers (though is valid nationwide). However, not all dealer personnel are aware of it and so if they say it doesn't exist you might need to refer them back to Lexus to get the details - make sure you use the full name of the warranty as above and don't just refer to it as extended warranty which was an old product that is no longer available. Quite a few members on here have now taken this out through various different dealers. Note the car does need to be serviced during the warranty period by a Lexus dealer according to the service schedule for the warranty to remain valid and I would have thought that to put the warranty into place may require a service doing first at a dealer to check all is well with the car if it hasn't been serviced by Lexus dealer prior to requesting it. It also includes Lexus Roadside Assisstance in the annual cost. 

 

https://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic/130626-lexus-10-year-plus-extended-warranty/#comment-1206830

Thanks so much. This is really useful. The car currently has the last two services done independently but as mentioned I will be getting a full service next week from Lexus so that the relax warranty kicks back in and I plan to continue servicing it at lexus for as long as I own it. Having looked at the prices £290 for an interim and £550 full it sounds not massively different to an independent especially if you look at the stuff that goes into it. I really don't get why people service it at independent garages when the savings arent massive plus you lose the warranty on the car and the hybrid Battery - it just doesn't make sense to me. If you're doing your own services thats understandable as the savings then are significant although you will lose value when selling your car but if you plan keeping it long term this may still make sense. 

[Spock66]

2 minutes ago, Notamech said:

I plan to continue servicing it at lexus for as long as I own it.

May also be worth looking at a service plan, you lock in future services at the current price and pay via monthly direct debit.

[royoftherovers]

2 hours ago, wharfhouse said:

Here is a link to a thread I started about what is called the "10 Year Plus Extended Warranty". It's not advertised by Lexus through the website but is available to purchase through dealers (though is valid nationwide). However, not all dealer personnel are aware of it and so if they say it doesn't exist you might need to refer them back to Lexus to get the details - make sure you use the full name of the warranty as above and don't just refer to it as extended warranty which was an old product that is no longer available. Quite a few members on here have now taken this out through various different dealers. Note the car does need to be serviced during the warranty period by a Lexus dealer according to the service schedule for the warranty to remain valid and I would have thought that to put the warranty into place may require a service doing first at a dealer to check all is well with the car if it hasn't been serviced by Lexus dealer prior to requesting it. It also includes Lexus Roadside Assisstance in the annual cost. 

 

https://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic/130626-lexus-10-year-plus-extended-warranty/#comment-1206830

It is vital to ensure that one has this cover as it picks up matters that can be picked up by the Hybrid Battery Check,but which are not covered by the Hybrid Battery Warranty itself.

[Bluemarlin]

20 hours ago, wharfhouse said:

I hear this argument and I understand that where they are trying to say it doesn't need changing during a typical lease period as it looks better from a cost of ownership. The CVT fluid will clearly last that long without a problem. But on the counter point what has Lexus (or the accountants) got to lose by specifying changing it at 100k or 150k miles which is usually beyond most lease periods and often 2nd or 3rd owners who would then be paying for the work like any other maintenance - they specify changing coolant at such intervals and changing the CVT fluid is no more involved.

I suspect a combination of reasons Phil. Firstly probably habit/convention, as many manufacturers specify lifetime fluid, usually meaning 100-150k miles. The second might just be a case of reality. I've never read of any eCVT failures and, whilst I'm sure there are some, they're likely to be an exception, and even possibly due to something other than a  lack of fluid changes. I mean I doubt they'd offer 15yr/150k mile warranties on cars that don't need a fluid change if they felt transmissions were likely to be failing around that point. I believe they also check the fluid as part of the service schedule, so maybe they only go for a change if they spot any problems with the fluid.

I also remember reading somewhere that the most likely cause of failure is either the wrong type of fluid, or incorrect fill level, so why risk a point of failure if they feel the existing fluid will last.

My guess would be that you'd be unlucky to have a transmission failure, with or without changing the fuid, during the iifetime of the car, and would suspect that you'd lose a car to rust, accident damage, or other failures before your transmission failed. That said, I changed mine at 96k, due to convention and peace of mind, and doubt I'll do it again during the course of my ownership.

[Notamech]

1 hour ago, Bluemarlin said:

I suspect a combination of reasons Phil. Firstly probably habit/convention, as many manufacturers specify lifetime fluid, usually meaning 100-150k miles. The second might just be a case of reality. I've never read of any eCVT failures and, whilst I'm sure there are some, they're likely to be an exception, and even possibly due to something other than a  lack of fluid changes. I mean I doubt they'd offer 15yr/150k mile warranties on cars that don't need a fluid change if they felt transmissions were likely to be failing around that point. I believe they also check the fluid as part of the service schedule, so maybe they only go for a change if they spot any problems with the fluid.

I also remember reading somewhere that the most likely cause of failure is either the wrong type of fluid, or incorrect fill level, so why risk a point of failure if they feel the existing fluid will last.

My guess would be that you'd be unlucky to have a transmission failure, with or without changing the fuid, during the iifetime of the car, and would suspect that you'd lose a car to rust, accident damage, or other failures before your transmission failed. That said, I changed mine at 96k, due to convention and peace of mind, and doubt I'll do it again during the course of my ownership.

Yeah makes sense. I thought about it a little more and I realised one of the reasons i typically change the transmission oil on all used cars I buy is primarily because I don't know how lovingly the car was treated. Especially when its new / has warranty people are more likely to drive it rough because if anything breaks its covered. So i feel like there might be metal shavings floating around in the oil. Granted its all just imaginary but its always at the back of my mind. Also mine is an executive trim level but has the F-sport alloys and red painted calipers which tells me that at least one of the previous owners was "sporty". Might just bite the bullet and get it done and if it still fails (unlikely) then hope the warranty will cover it. Also was watching this video on this car care nut channel the guy is a Toyota specialist and he thinks the cvt oil should be changed at around 70-90k miles. So im sure the risks are minor. 

[wharfhouse]

1 hour ago, Bluemarlin said:

I suspect a combination of reasons Phil. Firstly probably habit/convention, as many manufacturers specify lifetime fluid, usually meaning 100-150k miles. The second might just be a case of reality. I've never read of any eCVT failures and, whilst I'm sure there are some, they're likely to be an exception, and even possibly due to something other than a  lack of fluid changes. I mean I doubt they'd offer 15yr/150k mile warranties on cars that don't need a fluid change if they felt transmissions were likely to be failing around that point. I believe they also check the fluid as part of the service schedule, so maybe they only go for a change if they spot any problems with the fluid.

I also remember reading somewhere that the most likely cause of failure is either the wrong type of fluid, or incorrect fill level, so why risk a point of failure if they feel the existing fluid will last.

My guess would be that you'd be unlucky to have a transmission failure, with or without changing the fuid, during the iifetime of the car, and would suspect that you'd lose a car to rust, accident damage, or other failures before your transmission failed. That said, I changed mine at 96k, due to convention and peace of mind, and doubt I'll do it again during the course of my ownership.

Yes - as I said if Lexus thought it should be changed at or before 100k or even 150k miles I really don't see why they wouldn't specify it - they have differential oil specified at 20k mile intervals and coolants at 100k (ICE) and 150k (inverter) and every 50k miles after that and I don't see why adding that the cvt fluid should be changed at similar mileages would be regarded as detrimental. Also, I have confidence that they must have tested cvts to destruction to see when they fail and how, and so as you say, I suspect when they did fail it was not the fluid that was the reason but other catastrophic elements, hence no specification to change it.

I have no problem if people wish to change it, as I know many change their fluids at less than mfr specified intervals. It's just of genuine interest as to why Lexus / Toyota say lifetime fill when other fluids have (sometimes long) change intervals. I had a BMW 528i in the 1990's that had auto box with lifetime fill and ran that to over 200k miles in 10 years  (always dealer serviced) without ever changing it and it never put a foot wrong despite many of the forums of the time saying people should change the oil at (in many cases coming from people based in the US) sometimes ridiculously low mileage intervals.

[wharfhouse]

37 minutes ago, Notamech said:

Yeah makes sense. I thought about it a little more and I realised one of the reasons i typically change the transmission oil on all used cars I buy is primarily because I don't know how lovingly the car was treated. Especially when its new / has warranty people are more likely to drive it rough because if anything breaks its covered. So i feel like there might be metal shavings floating around in the oil. Granted its all just imaginary but its always at the back of my mind. Also mine is an executive trim level but has the F-sport alloys and red painted calipers which tells me that at least one of the previous owners was "sporty". Might just bite the bullet and get it done and if it still fails (unlikely) then hope the warranty will cover it. Also was watching this video on this car care nut channel the guy is a Toyota specialist and he thinks the cvt oil should be changed at around 70-90k miles. So im sure the risks are minor. 

Hmmm - not sure I would trust what a self-appointed YouTuber thinks over the millions of pounds and resources poured into the e-cvt development by Toyota / Lexus. However, no harm in changing it (IIRC it says to change it if the car is used in harsh conditions, I think) so long as the correct fluid is used, no contamination enters the cvt and it's refilled correctly. The good thing is that the e-cvt is more like a manual box in that regards than a traditional auto and so less likely to have problems than when changing the oil in a traditional auto box.

[Bluemarlin]

2 hours ago, wharfhouse said:

Hmmm - not sure I would trust what a self-appointed YouTuber thinks over the millions of pounds and resources poured into the e-cvt development by Toyota / Lexus. However, no harm in changing it (IIRC it says to change it if the car is used in harsh conditions, I think) so long as the correct fluid is used, no contamination enters the cvt and it's refilled correctly. The good thing is that the e-cvt is more like a manual box in that regards than a traditional auto and so less likely to have problems than when changing the oil in a traditional auto box.

In fairness, I believe the "car care nut" is an ex Lexus/Toyota tech, rather than a random YouTuber.

That said I imagine he also panders somewhat to an American audience who believe that if you don't change various parts or fluids every 5 minutes then your car will blow up.

I always find it amusing when people say they change their oil every 5k miles, and transmission fluid every 30k miles and have never had a problem, whilst ignoring the fact that many stick to 10k oil change intervals and never change their transmission fluid, and have no problems either.

Like I said before, change it at around 90-100k if it makes you feel better (I did), or perhap if the car's been used for towing or something. Who knows what will haappen with a car,  which is why the best peace of mind is a decent warranty.