ES300H TAKUMI - wheel arch CAN BUS theft

[Cs150]

Seems like the insurance companies are increasing premiums for these models. Gone from £400 to over £600. As a comparison able to insure a Ford in the household for only £195 appreciate that vehicle is worth less.  As a driver I am a low risk being an IAM member with nearly 25 years no claims, it is the ES vehicle itself that is the high risk.....

[Navnan2]

3 hours ago, Cs150 said:

Seems like the insurance companies are increasing premiums for these models. Gone from £400 to over £600. As a comparison able to insure a Ford in the household for only £195 appreciate that vehicle is worth less.  As a driver I am a low risk being an IAM member with nearly 25 years no claims, it is the ES vehicle itself that is the high risk.....

Well let's hope Lexus insurance services start giving us a good deal to keep us onboard. Until now I've looked elsewhere as their prices were not competitive.

[GMB]

21 hours ago, beyond the blue said:

Manchester

Many years ago I used to commute to  Manchester and park all day in the car park near Salford station until one day the attendant who was there full time warned me that some "people" had been "inspecting" my car and would probably be a good idea not to park here anymore.

I kept the Audi 200turbo at home and bought an old green polo for commuting from then on. I think the VW green colour was called exorcist vomit green. Anyway, no-one went near it and even I could not stand the thing, but it was unbreakable.

[SFS86]

I began reading this thread in Sep when the first attempt was made on my 2020 ES (parked on the street outside my London mid-terrace). The thieves got inside but only took a pair of (expensive) prescription sunglasses from the glovebox. I immediately bought a Stoplock Pro as a deterrent but sadly even that did not stop the theft of the vehicle last night. 

In reading all the stories here (including the potential loom cable disasters even if a Ghost immobiliser is installed) I'm very sadly coming to the conclusion that my much beloved ES is not worth replacing as I've little doubt that such determined and professional thieves will simply be lying in wait for my replacement. It is a very sad statement (and indictment) that such an otherwise worthy brand has not seen fit to address this known vulnerability. On the other hand, you start asking yourself if any car (not locked up in a garage) can ever be immune.

Does anyone know if the loom cable issue (i.e. eye-watering replacement expense) is Lexus-specific?  My next car will almost certainly have an aftermarket immobiliser installed but just trying to understand if such loom repair cost can be avoided with alternative makes? 

The lessons learned here are: 

• plan/expect that you car will be stolen at some point
• don't leave anything in it (like a set of custom fit golf clubs and related kit 😞 ) that will be difficult/costly to replace (i.e. not sufficiently covered by most insurance policies)
• continue to bombard Lexus with complaints about this issue - they will not act unless/until it sufficiently hits them in the pocket via buyers avoiding these vulnerable models      

[ColinBarber]

3 hours ago, SFS86 said:

Does anyone know if the loom cable issue (i.e. eye-watering replacement expense) is Lexus-specific?  My next car will almost certainly have an aftermarket immobiliser installed but just trying to understand if such loom repair cost can be avoided with alternative makes? 

The CAN bus / headlight issue is Toyota specific, which obviously includes Lexus. Some other brands have other, similar issues, and best to avoid anything Land Rover, but there are probably weak spots in most vehicles - research on forums for other brands you are considering.

[Cs150]

3 hours ago, SFS86 said:

I began reading this thread in Sep when the first attempt was made on my 2020 ES (parked on the street outside my London mid-terrace). The thieves got inside but only took a pair of (expensive) prescription sunglasses from the glovebox. I immediately bought a Stoplock Pro as a deterrent but sadly even that did not stop the theft of the vehicle last night. 

In reading all the stories here (including the potential loom cable disasters even if a Ghost immobiliser is installed) I'm very sadly coming to the conclusion that my much beloved ES is not worth replacing as I've little doubt that such determined and professional thieves will simply be lying in wait for my replacement. It is a very sad statement (and indictment) that such an otherwise worthy brand has not seen fit to address this known vulnerability. On the other hand, you start asking yourself if any car (not locked up in a garage) can ever be immune.

Does anyone know if the loom cable issue (i.e. eye-watering replacement expense) is Lexus-specific?  My next car will almost certainly have an aftermarket immobiliser installed but just trying to understand if such loom repair cost can be avoided with alternative makes? 

The lessons learned here are: 

• plan/expect that you car will be stolen at some point
• don't leave anything in it (like a set of custom fit golf clubs and related kit 😞 ) that will be difficult/costly to replace (i.e. not sufficiently covered by most insurance policies)
• continue to bombard Lexus with complaints about this issue - they will not act unless/until it sufficiently hits them in the pocket via buyers avoiding these vulnerable models      

Seems a professional and determined criminal group sadly. Must have taken them at least a few minutes to remove the Stoplock and presumably use the Canbus method. A Disklock would buy more time perhaps as much as a full 5 minutes removing that alone. Drilling the Disklock would also likely generate quite some noise. It would not make sense to return to the Lexus brand considering this experience. Shame on Lexus for not protecting your asset adequately.

[GMB]

While waiting for my car to be serviced I mentioned the Insurance price rises and asked them if sales had been affected by the problem and the canbus fears. The response I got was quite dismissal and that they don't really see any issues and no they are not really affected.

I must admit that I found their response puzzling.

[beyond the blue]

Unfortunately for us, a few people whinging on a tiny forum won't make the slightest difference to a massive corporation like Toyota. They will dismiss our complaints with a back of the hand gesture. The only thing we can do is look at other manufacturers to help protect our investments and Toyota will just wait for other purchasers to fill the gap. Unfortunately for us again, it's the way big business works.

[GMB]

18 minutes ago, beyond the blue said:

a few people whinging on a tiny forum

It was not whingeing. It was an intelligent conversation. 

I came to the conclusion that the dealers are doing an "ostrich" tactic and just won't get it until it hits their pockets.

[PDM]

2 hours ago, GMB said:

While waiting for my car to be serviced I mentioned the Insurance price rises and asked them if sales had been affected by the problem and the canbus fears. The response I got was quite dismissal and that they don't really see any issues and no they are not really affected.

I must admit that I found their response puzzling.

This will take time to filter through. People who run a 4RX so far have been most targeted (and clearly this is now coming through on ES too). If you look at the 5RX sales figures (publicly available) they are a lot lower than 4RX was in its launch year (2016).  This could be because people (me included) rushed and bought a late model 4RX for the V6, economic downturn, supply issues or reputation for theft. It's hard to unpick but I can tell you that in central London the number of RXs has fallen significantly over the last few years. I have not seen any 5RX on the road yet in the UK myself.

Time will tell.

Paul

[Spacewagon52]

3 hours ago, GMB said:

While waiting for my car to be serviced I mentioned the Insurance price rises and asked them if sales had been affected by the problem and the canbus fears. The response I got was quite dismissal and that they don't really see any issues and no they are not really affected.

I must admit that I found their response puzzling.

There will be many buyers out there who have know idea about the thefts and insurance hikes. I doubt a Lexus salesman will warn them!

[beyond the blue]

2 hours ago, GMB said:

It was not whingeing. It was an intelligent conversation. 

I came to the conclusion that the dealers are doing an "ostrich" tactic and just won't get it until it hits their pockets.

Not singling out anyone in particular. I've been whinging just as much as anyone else, but it just won't make a difference, they just don't care.

[Cs150]

18 minutes ago, beyond the blue said:

Not singling out anyone in particular. I've been whinging just as much as anyone else, but it just won't make a difference, they just don't care.

This is perhaps the problem, when the Lexus brand was launched they did care. When did this change? Originally they said customers are guests and should have premium treatment. It seems they are not the same company and appear no different than any other vehicle maker. From interaction with Lexus UK and the dealer I have not been just underwhelmed but find it embarrassingly bad such as ignoring customers etc. 

[GMB]

I have been pleasantly surprised at how "nice" the dealers are when taking the car for a service. Only minor niggles but they are a bit expensive and like to advise replacement of, what I consider, only part-worn items such as tyres with 5 mm left on them. Compared with going to a Ford dealership recently I got the impression that I was in their ( Ford service staff ) way and was taking up their valuable time.

One unpleasant result from a visit to Ford years ago was when I took the car to a specialist after visiting Ford for the last time after warranty and the very professional chap - The great Peter West of Westune asked who was the last person to touch the car as four of the six spark plugs were cross threaded. It must have been the apprentice at the Ford garage.

One nice thing  from Lexus is the follow-up phone call to check that everything is OK, which it usually is.

[Cs150]

53 minutes ago, GMB said:

 

One nice thing  from Lexus is the follow-up phone call to check that everything is OK, which it usually is.

After taking delivery of a new ES last year I was not even asked for feedback once, seems very inconsistent....

[NICO1972]

Here is a lovely response I received from Chris Hayes CEO Lexus - at the moment, process is very slow from my insurance car repair workshop as I am yet to discover what is being done with the loom cable - so frustrating as it is going rather slow to get this in motion from the repair centre:

 

Dear Nick,

 Thanks for reaching out, and please accept our genuine empathy for the situation you have found yourself in.

 I’ve spoken to the team, and if they have not done so already, they will be in touch to confirm that we can and we will arrange an alternative vehicle for you directly.

Please just leave that with us for a moment.

I’m reviewing details later this week and will be back in touch (the team will) as necessary.

Again, so sorry to hear of this situation, it’s a harrowing and really unsettling experience all round.

 Please let me reassure you we are doing all we can, as quickly as we can to neutralise any and all vehicle thefts to our models.

The type of organised and coordinated activities the industry has seen (all brands) in recent months, and particularly in the London area, has been frankly unprecedented.

 We will do all we can to support you and your ownership experience in the interim.

 Warm regards,

 

Chris.

[Cs150]

3 hours ago, NICO1972 said:

 

 Please let me reassure you we are doing all we can, as quickly as we can to neutralise any and all vehicle thefts to our models.

The type of organised and coordinated activities the industry has seen (all brands) in recent months, and particularly in the London area, has been frankly unprecedented.

 

As always inconsistent with Lexus UK, some customers are ignored, some receive templated waffle full of deflection and others receive a personal reply. Lets see if a recall occurs for ALL models without Canbus encryption.....

[Guest]

Well my 2020 Takumi was taken from outside my house last night. The Lexus app shows it as being 2 miles way at midnight. Police are at the location but cannot locate it, I assume the standard Lexus tracker on the app has now been disabled. Obviously I am suspecting the Canbus method of stealing it, I had a steering wheel lock on as well. 

[Boomer54]

7 minutes ago, Derant said:

Well my 2020 Takumi was taken from outside my house last night. The Lexus app shows it as being 2 miles way at midnight. Police are at the location but cannot locate it, I assume the standard Lexus tracker on the app has now been disabled. Obviously I am suspecting the Canbus method of stealing it, I had a steering wheel lock on as well. 

Tell me if you want to borrow my hatchet.

[GMB]

This is getting to be a serious issue if these reports of theft are indicative of the taste for Lexus by thieves. It seems to be a recent phenomenon even though other makes have similar vulnerabilities.

Is it a rise in theft generally? More thieves? More feral types? Society poorer and more inclined to criminality?

Whatever it is I think it's time to ditch my Lexus and go and live abroad and get a safer, less theft prone car.  Hmmm Honda Civic type R sounds interesting.

I will up my insurance cover and leave the car in the town centre for a couple of nights, that should see it gone in no time🥸

[Guest]

Update…. The police have located the car, it was roughly where the location app said it was, apparently my Lexus and a discovery were stolen last night from our village. Just back from the car and the Front passenger wing was pulled away and trim around the headlight, god knows what damage is underneath. The police are keeping it and I have left it in the hands of the insurance company to see what needs doing. Certainly think I am finished with the ES though if they can be stolen so easily

[LenT]

19 minutes ago, Derant said:

Update…. The police have located the car, it was roughly where the location app said it was, apparently my Lexus and a discovery were stolen last night from our village

So to be fair, it sounds like the Police - aided by the Location App - did all that could be expected.  Parking a stolen car nearby is the usual method of discovering if it has a Tracker fitted.

25 minutes ago, Derant said:

Certainly think I am finished with the ES though if they can be stolen so easily

Fair enough.  But what car of the same quality would you choose - and why do you think it will be less vulnerable to theft?

[beyond the blue]

3 hours ago, Derant said:

Well my 2020 Takumi was taken from outside my house last night. The Lexus app shows it as being 2 miles way at midnight. Police are at the location but cannot locate it, I assume the standard Lexus tracker on the app has now been disabled. Obviously I am suspecting the Canbus method of stealing it, I had a steering wheel lock on as well. 

Sorry to hear that. Despite the fact that any make can get stolen, if mine goes that's me finished with Lexus unless they do something about it.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, LenT said:

Fair enough.  But what car of the same quality would you choose - and why do you think it will be less vulnerable to theft?

I don’t honestly know what I would get and how vulnerable it would be but I now know that a Lexus ES300h is very vulnerable. I wouldnt have peace of mind with another Lexus sat outside.

I recovered the dash cam and was able to watch the whole event and subsequent journey, not possible to identify anyone except hearing them speak

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, LenT said:

Parking a stolen car nearby is the usual method of discovering if it has a Tracker fitted.

Yes that’s true, this particular spot gave easy access to the A1 both north and south if and when they returned