ES300H TAKUMI - wheel arch CAN BUS theft

[Colenso]

I had my ES300H Takumi taken from outside my house in Richmond on Thames at 03:20 on Monday 5th of December. The tracker went dead at 0329 about 1.4 miles away. 

The Met called me around 11am the same day to inform me that 8 lexus cars were taken on the same night. The Met police sent me an email at 1148 to confirm that the case was closed. 

At 1930 the tracker became active again and I went to the location and retrieved the car from the thieves.  It was clear from the condition of the vehicle that it had been taken using the wheel arch CAN BUS method. 

At 2358 the thieves came back to find the vehicle, needless to say, they left without it. 

Lexus are refusing to assist me in any way and insist that they are in no way liable to cover the cost of the repairs (6k) and that I have to make a claim through my insurance company. 

My motivation for posting this is to see if anyone in a similar situation has found a solicitor who is willing to take Lexus on for this. I have made a few inquiries but nothing more than that.

 

 

[Herbie]

I can understand that you're upset about your car being stolen, just like anyone would be, but I really fail to see what you expect Lexus to do about it. It's just a natural progression.

It reminds me of the phrase "idiot proof". Yes, something may well be idiot proof, but only until a better class of idiot comes along.

When I first started driving, some cars had the 'ignition switch' mounted in the dash and were very easy to steal just by hot-wiring. Then the ignition switch was combined with a steering column interlock, which made it a bit more difficult to steal but not impossible, so even better security was needed and such is the way of the world. For every security system ever invented someone, somewhere, is working on a way of bypassing it.

I suppose that it could be said to be a bit of a design fault (with 20/20 hindsight, of course) but it takes anywhere between 7 to 10 years from initial concept to arriving in the showroom. I doubt that anyone would have even known what a CANbus attack was at that time, so we can hardly blame the manufacturer for putting the CAN wiring where they did.

No manufacturer has a crystal ball to see what might happen in the future and I'm afraid that the only person responsible for this is the ne'r-do-well who stole the car, not Lexus.

[royoftherovers]

10 hours ago, Colenso said:

I had my ES300H Takumi taken from outside my house in Richmond on Thames at 03:20 on Monday 5th of December. The tracker went dead at 0329 about 1.4 miles away. 

The Met called me around 11am the same day to inform me that 8 lexus cars were taken on the same night. The Met police sent me an email at 1148 to confirm that the case was closed. 

At 1930 the tracker became active again and I went to the location and retrieved the car from the thieves.  It was clear from the condition of the vehicle that it had been taken using the wheel arch CAN BUS method. 

At 2358 the thieves came back to find the vehicle, needless to say, they left without it. 

Lexus are refusing to assist me in any way and insist that they are in no way liable to cover the cost of the repairs (6k) and that I have to make a claim through my insurance company. 

My motivation for posting this is to see if anyone in a similar situation has found a solicitor who is willing to take Lexus on for this. I have made a few inquiries but nothing more than that.

 

 

Have you considered the extent to which pursuing the Dealer who sold you the car (not Lexus the manufacturer) via the small claims track of the County Court, given that your loss is less than 10k ?

Your first Port of Call should be your Insurance Co. If they accept your claim (and I think they will) then your loss will amount to up to 5 years increase in premiums.

Dolet us all know what you decide to do and how you get on.

[LenT]

11 hours ago, Colenso said:

At 1930 the tracker became active again and I went to the location and retrieved the car from the thieves.  It was clear from the condition of the vehicle that it had been taken using the wheel arch CAN BUS method. 

At 2358 the thieves came back to find the vehicle, needless to say, they left without it. 

 

I suspect that the answers you've been getting are not what you hoped for.  No security system will guarantee to be invincible!  After all, houses and safes are still broken in to despite extensive security measures.  It's only if a system can be shown to have failed that you might have a claim; not if the system was bypassed or defeated by a novel form of attack.  The only consolation is that your tracker proved its worth and you have not suffered a total loss.

In many ways, the development of advanced electronic driving systems has made life easier for thieves.  There was a time when simply removing the rotor arm from the distributor prevented the car being driven away!   

But you have raised  one point that intrigues me.

You say that when the tracker became active again, you went to the location and 'retrieved the car from the thieves'.  Why?  And should that be simply 'retrieved the car'?  Did you inform the Police so that they could set up an observation or examine it forensically?  How do you know that the thieves returned at 23.58 if you had already retrieved the car?  Did you remain at the scene yourself?

Ironically, a steering wheel lock (eg Disklok) may have prevented the theft in the first place - although some types are not compatible with steering mounted paddle controls.  But, sadly, this may be the way to go if you have to leave the car accessible in the future.

 

[Bhaijaan]

H,

My car (rx450) was stolen in South London at 4 am on 27 01 2023. It was on the main road under the lights. I heard a guy banging near the tyre. I thought they are looking for a catalytic convertor. Once i heard the bang i checked the camera and called the police straight away. I did not know they were using this method to unlock the car. Never heard about wheel arch can bust. The police did not even bother to chase properly as usual and said they cannot do anything about it.  Unfortunately i did not have a tracker. 

It is a shame that police could have checked lexuses near by as the car did not go far and only flashed one ANPR. If there was a vehicle with a damaged wheel arch it could have been spotted. Very disappointed with this. The car even had a steering wheel.

Also a big company like Lexus should develop a system like Tesla where they should just disable the car completely unless the part is changed through an authorised dealer. I think it is just too easy for thieves in UK and north America to steal things from individuals. 

 

 

[JN74]

New to this thread, my Lexus was stolen on Tuesday night 8.45pm in Kensington, CCTV shows 44secs from arrival at the car to driving away. Clearly using the CAN BUS method (working on front left wheel arch etc). Got a reasonable night time image of main thief which the Met now have (balding middle aged thin guy surprisingly) they also had another two watching out so clearly a reasonably professional operation

I have seen other posters receive standard responses from Lexus fobbing them off, however also that if you insure certain models through Lexus insurance they offer you a free second immobiliser ie they know of the vulnerability and are protecting themselves against it but have not bothered to warm their owners or recall to fix the weakness. Knowing the chances of a few angry owners getting Lexus to do something is very small I have an appointment with Which Legal next week (as a member) as their magazine rates the RX450h as a Best Buy and they have significant clout when they get stuck into a big brand.

I will let you know the progress

 

[DrShockr]

I was gutted to find my ES missing from where I'd parked it on Sunday night. The Lexus Link app came in very handy and showed the car had been moved only a few miles away, I managed to locate it in a gated semi underground parking lot, but there has been significant damage to the car both outside and inside. As far as I can tell, they got in using the 'CAN invasion' technique. I am so disappointed that Toyota have not come up with a solution for this problem, I personally think all late model Lexus and Toyota should be recalled for some sort of software update. The thieves can inject any code to unlock and start the car, via the headlight wiring,  as the car's internal comms network does not use encryption. 

I've only been driving the car for a few weeks after upgrading from my CT200h, super gutted. Even if they repair it, I won't be satisfied knowing it can be stolen again any second, so although I love the car, I may have to sell it as I can't live in constant fear of it being stolen again. Had a call from a police officer today, whose only job is to recover stolen cars, he told me this was the 17th Lexus on his list (which he hadn't got to the end of yet!) from over the long weekend and this new vulnerability is causing a massive spike in thefts. 

Will be buying a steering wheel lock and potentially a ghost immobiliser. Anybody have any experience with either of those?

[Mincey]

I will be digging out my steering wheel lock this evening.

[Duggie B]

Not only Lexus are subject to this problem.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/04/09/thieves-hacking-cars-through-headlights/

[Paul V]

I know just how you feel - my Lexus (RX450) was stolen last October, two were taken on the same night in the same street. It was never recovered. However, like you I would not have wanted it back. The only saving grace was that I had taken up the gap insurance, so was at least paid out the full amount which I paid for it. 

Replaced with the ES300h which I'm very happy with. I brought a steering lock, the yellow type, and hope that this is at least some sort of deterrent. 

The worst part is the amount of stuff you keep in the car, the value if which is no way near the miserable amount of contents cover the insurance company covers. I had to claim on my household insurance. (Prescription sunglasses alone was three time the contents cover).

I now take out most stuff every night. Pain in the a**e but.....

[08ISF]

I'm now using a steering wheel lock. Lexus are supposed to be looking at a plate to protect the cabling on the RX, but it seems the ES and probably the NX are vulnerable and they won't do anything about those models unless the owners raise hell. 

The thing about this is that the equipment to carry out the CANBUS attack is not cheap so the thefts are carried out by organised crime not the local crack head. If a pro wants your car he's going to take it. The only thing you can do is put a visible deterrent on the car that makes it a less easy target in the hope that they move on . Ghost could be OK but they won't find out until they've  damaged the car and I'm not convinced they won't eventually find a way of circumventing this or any other immobiliser.

[cdmaskell]

Dear oh dear.  So sorry to hear of your ES being stolen.  I didn’t realise that the ES was a target until now.  Mine is a locked garage, but still could be got at when parked elsewhere. With all the electronic expertise around, surely Lexus can come up with a fix/ deterrent?  Specially taking in to account all the superfluous stuff they have incorporated into the ES. I think legal action should be taken out  on Lexus.

[Cs150]

Absolutely ridiculous that in 2023 this is a problem. Like going back to the late 80s and early 90s. 

[george72]

So sorry to hear this. I am shocked how this can happen on any modern car. You have made me think. In London on a short break checked my cctv 3 times to check car is still on my driveway! 

 

[Tonyw]

Just ordered a t bar steering lock, the one that grips the top and sits across the dash. As others say, a visual deterrent makes a difference to opportunistic. My drive shape means that if you can’t steer, you can’t go anywhere.

[Stanwithaplan]

What a sickener, I'm really sorry to hear about it. Deepest sympathies.

[Mincey]

20 hours ago, Mincey said:

I will be digging out my steering wheel lock this evening.

Would you believe that the Stoplock I used on my IS300h doesn't fit Betsy? The manufacturer reckons it's a recommended fit but I beg to differ!

[Cs150]

It is simply not right to have to fit physical devices to the wheel that over many hundreds of times using will eventually cause wear and tear to the steering wheel material. My opinion of Lexus UK is very low but they really should install a mitigating measure as appropriate to make this attack more difficult. A software update to support encryption or blanking plate to make it harder seem sensible. I have felt since ordering the ES that Lexus UK do not listen to customers and I expect they will do nothing. 

[DrShockr]

Thanks for all the sympathies all. Agree with the sentiments above, it really beggars belief that this can go on in 2023! Encryption is such a basic thing used everywhere, I can't believe we pay for such expensive cars and something so basic has been overlooked.

 

I'm told that the 'dustbin lid' type steering locks are better than the T-bar ones, I've had a neighbour who had their car stolen with the T-bar on, the scrotes just cut right through it!

[Herbie]

I would be gutted if some scrote stole my RX but there's just no point in worrying about it.

If the scrotes want it so much they'll get it one way or another. Since time immemorial as soon as one security method has been invented, 24 hours later some ne'er-do-well is working on a way of circumventing it.

[Dippo]

I think someone had a go at mine last night. I was told by a neighbour that it had been damaged - when I went to look at it, at first it looked as if something had caught inside the front nearside wheel arch and pulled the bumper away round to under the headlight. However, there's no visible damage to the panel, so I expect it's more likely someone pulled it off to try to do whatever they do. Off to buy a steering lock first thing in the morning.

[Cs150]

1 hour ago, Dippo said:

Off to buy a steering lock first thing in the morning.

Watch the many videos on YouTube for the steering lock theft tests. Many of them can be removed in seconds. The long standing Disklok seems to keep a professional at bay for more than 3 minutes and appears the strongest by far. Important get the right size model for the steering wheel though. So the best on the market realistically will only buy a matter of minutes but better than nothing. Lexus should immediately be issuing a statement on this with a plan to offer a solution.

[JamesIS220]

Remote operating drivers ejector seat would be good and panoramic opening sunroof. No parachute though!

James

[Dippo]

If anyone is buying a Stoplock steering lock (amazon, Argos, or Halfords), the guide says the Stoplock Pro is the recommended model for the ES. That's what I bought, but I couldn't get it to fit over the steering wheel without it pressing down and sounding the horn continuously. OK - that's a good deterrent, but I don't think the neighbours would be too impressed, and the Battery would go flat rather quickly. The Pro Elite has a larger curve on the steel bar, and fits without a problem.

 

It's about £15 cheaper on amazon than from the other suppliers.

 

So much for keyless entry!

[Mincey]

49 minutes ago, Dippo said:

If anyone is buying a Stoplock steering lock (Amazon, Argos, or Halfords), the guide says the Stoplock Pro is the recommended model for the ES. That's what I bought, but I couldn't get it to fit over the steering wheel without it pressing down and sounding the horn continuously.

That's why I sold my Pro on here. The Elite turned up today. It fits but if you go from the lock on the bottom right of the wheel to the top left it hits the indicator. The storage bag is a nice touch though.