12v Battery replaced today under warranty

[ganzoom]

The 12V in our 2015 car still hasn't been changed since leaving the factory (Dec 2014), and the car is often left for weeks not driven, have never bothered with trickle charging. 

[ganzoom]

On 12/8/2022 at 7:59 PM, Las Palmas said:

Cold weather is not good for batteries. Happily it is not an EV.

7th winter owning an EV as our main family car this year, what issues have you experienced owning an EV in winter?

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, ganzoom said:

7th winter owning an EV as our main family car this year, what issues have you experienced owning an EV in winter?

Do not live in a country where winter is cold. Seldom have below 20 degrees C.

[Mr_Groundhog]

14 hours ago, LenT said:

I hope this makes it clearer!

Note eyelet connection to the battery posts.

That's great info, thanks so much for even uploading pics and everything. All clear now. So the eyelet connector just stays on and then it's a plug-in-plug-out operation to use it. Neat!

[TheBro72]

On 12/8/2022 at 6:18 PM, D Johnson said:

I am having an issue which may (or may not) be battery related, opinions differ at my dealer.  My IS is a similar age to yours.  About six weeks ago the car would not start and displayed the red warning message “hybrid system stopped.  Shift to P.”  I could not shift to P as I was already in P.  I eventually managed to start it and wrote it off as some sort of sensor malfunction, but unfortunately this was not the end of it.  The next morning I was late for work because the car again refused to start but this time nothing I tried seemed to work and I had to start scouring the Lexus forums for help.  I eventually started the car by pressing and holding the start button for 15 seconds.  I contacted my dealer and the message from the workshop was that it sounded like the 12v battery was flat.  They suggested I call roadside assistance so that they could establish the fault.  This was likely because I live 40 miles away and work long hours so could not just drop in to the dealer.  Given that I could now start the car with my trick, I thought breakdown would not come out to me since I was not broken down.  Long story short, I did some more research and decided it was worth buying a CTEK MXS5 charger and duly recond and charged the battery.  I did not buy a battery tester but I now think I shall because after everything being fine for a week or two things have started to happen again with the red warning message.  From what I can gather, the 12v battery has no alternator and is charged from the traction battery which takes approx one hour of running… 

My question is: if the 12v battery is never fully charging because my commute is 40 minutes each way, will this cause the battery to eventually fail, hence my current problems.  It seems this is something of a known issue on these and the Prius going back many years.  Does anyone know a workaround or should I just accept charging the battery on a regular basis?  

Also Bounce75, what symptoms were you getting as the battery was discharging?  

Wow....  I came on here trying to find out if the fault I was having was common.... Seems that way!

My 2013 IS300h F-Sport has also had the exact same fault with the car not starting, warning message, flashing dashboard etc., and over the last 6 weeks too! Today was the 3rd time this has happened, each time I've had to get jump leads and another car to get it to start. Luckily in every instance I wasn't stuck anywhere (or needed to get somewhere) but obvs I need this looking into.

I work from home so the car only gets used once maybe twice week for a short run which I know isn't a lot. However the car has been in the family since 2014. It was inherited from my Dad who was retired and again he didn't put many miles on it and he never had an issue with the Battery. It did go completely flat before in lockdown, but a lot of peoples cars did.

I live in the UK and over the few days it been really cold, we've had temperatures down to -5 and snow. Obviously this doesn't help but the last 2 occasions the temperature was circa 10 degrees. The car was serviced in October by the main dealer and they allegedly checked the Battery and also the hybrid system then so I'm not quite sure if discharge is something that happens over a period of time, how did they have failed to miss that there seems to be an issue with the Battery?

I will be speaking to them tomorrow to see what they say but I also wanted to ask you guys about the 'Extended 12 month Warranty' I got with my recent service. Found the T&C's and can't really make sense of them:-

Lexus Warranty 
Lexus warrants that its vehicles are built to the highest standard and should any part of the vehicle require repair or replacement as a result of a manufacturing defect during the period of warranty, the part will be repaired or replaced as necessary completely free of charge by any Authorised Lexus Repairer regardless of any change of vehicle ownership during the period of cover. The length of your manufacturer's warranty, together with full terms and conditions, are detailed in your Owner's Manual. 

Lexus Relax Eligibility Criteria 
Lexus Relax is automatically activated on completion of a service carried out in accordance with the manufacturer-recommended service intervals for your vehicle at an Authorised Lexus Repairer. It applies to vehicles: 

a)    on which the manufacturer warranty has expired; or

b)    the manufacturer warranty has a remaining coverage time of less than 12 months or 10,000 miles; and

c)    that are Less than 10 years old from date of first registration;

d)    that have covered less than 100,000 miles.

The car is 9 yrs old, so 6 yrs past the standard 3yr manufacturing warranty you get on a new car but its only has only done 38k miles. I'm just confused as to what exactly is covered with this new warranty? I'm gonna take a wild stab at this and say it's all waffle and it doesn't really cover anything, they certainly won't replace the Battery thats for sure!

Thanks in advance

[PaulWhitt20]

The 12v Battery is classed as a wear and tear item so not covered under warranty. If it is still the original Battery it has done very well to last 9 years. New batteries cost £225 from a Lexus dealer.  I had mine changes a few months ago for peace of mind. 

[Mikey B]

I'm still on the original at just over 8 years old and 230K - I think they appear to last better with regular use

[John Nooij]

The 12V Battery in my 2019 IS300h has been replaced a few months ago, under warranty.

I couldn't start the car and an message about the hybrid system that has stopped and shift to "P" appeared on the display.  Replacing the Battery solved this.

[TheBro72]

10 hours ago, PaulWhitt20 said:

The 12v battery is classed as a wear and tear item so not covered under warranty. If it is still the original battery it has done very well to last 9 years. New batteries cost £225 from a Lexus dealer.  I had mine changes a few months ago for peace of mind. 

I'm not actually sure if the Battery has been replaced since the car was purchased to be honest. I've had the car since Dec 2020, my dad was the sort of bloke that if Lexus told him something needed replacing when in for a service, he would just get them to do it so maybe it could have been. All the service and paperwork is at my mums house so I'm just going to ring the dealer today to find out whether or not its been changed.

[Richard-W]

On 12/8/2022 at 6:02 PM, PaulWhitt20 said:

£225 is the going rate for this battery. It is not one you can buy from halfords and replace yourself. 

I got one from a local independent accessory shop for £55, it's the same as, I think, a Toyota Aygo 12V Battery.

[wharfhouse]

13 hours ago, Mikey B said:

I'm still on the original at just over 8 years old and 230K - I think they appear to last better with regular use

Same here - original 12V Battery - car built 2014 and now done 125K miles and so used regularly through it's life. I have recently left the car for a week unused and it still started ok. In general batteries that are failing early do seem to be low mileage cars with short runs or ones where for some reason the 12V Battery has gone flat at some point and then recharged.

[wharfhouse]

2 hours ago, TheBro72 said:

I'm not actually sure if the battery has been replaced since the car was purchased to be honest. I've had the car since Dec 2020, my dad was the sort of bloke that if Lexus told him something needed replacing when in for a service, he would just get them to do it so maybe it could have been. All the service and paperwork is at my mums house so I'm just going to ring the dealer today to find out whether or not its been changed.

As others have said at that age (unless it was replaced in the last year) the 12V Battery will not be covered by Relax as it's a consumable item. If you are going to change the 12V Battery then a word of caution - there are some people who have changed the 12V Battery themselves only to find that the audio head unit does not work any more when powering the car back up. There are some reports on this forum and in the US. It's not widespread but certainly a concern as replacement of the audio unit is very expensive! No-one has got to the bottom of why this occurs or how to fix the audio unit other than replacing it, at least as far as I am aware. If Lexus change the 12V Battery then should this happen it would be their responsibility (they may know how to do it to avoid the issue) but if you decide to change it yourself be aware of the issue though there doesn't seem to be anything to be done to avoid it other than perhaps making sure 12V power is maintained to the car whilst changing the Battery.

[TheBro72]

6 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

As others have said at that age (unless it was replaced in the last year) the 12V battery will not be covered by Relax as it's a consumable item. If you are going to change the 12V battery then a word of caution - there are some people who have changed the 12V battery themselves only to find that the audio head unit does not work any more when powering the car back up. There are some reports on this forum and in the US. It's not widespread but certainly a concern as replacement of the audio unit is very expensive! No-one has got to the bottom of why this occurs or how to fix the audio unit other than replacing it, at least as far as I am aware. If Lexus change the 12V battery then should this happen it would be their responsibility (they may know how to do it to avoid the issue) but if you decide to change it yourself be aware of the issue though there doesn't seem to be anything to be done to avoid it other than perhaps making sure 12V power is maintained to the car whilst changing the battery.

Thanks for the heads up on this!

I spoke with Lexus this morning and they've looked on file and said it hasn't had a new Battery since new so that's that mystery solved. I asked if the Battery was checked in October when the car was serviced why this wasn't this picked up, she didn't really answer that question. Was told it could be either one of two things, Battery fault or electrical fault. So the car is going in to dealers today for an overnight evaluation of the Battery and the warranty covers this service so let's see what comes of that. If it is the Battery (which judging by all the other posts on here, it most likely this), I'll just get them to replace it, £225 is expensive, but the last thing I need this is for me to have to also replace the head unit!

FYI - I was aware the Battery isn't covered by the Relax warranty - I did say this in my OP. I just wanted to know what was actually covered by this warranty that's all, perhaps I should have made another post about it to avoid confusion! I've since found the T&C's in full and it's all outlined there. Cheers

[wharfhouse]

5 minutes ago, TheBro72 said:

Thanks for the heads up on this!

I spoke with Lexus this morning and they've looked on file and said it hasn't had a new battery since new so that's that mystery solved. I asked if the battery was checked in October when the car was serviced why this wasn't this picked up, she didn't really answer that question. Was told it could be either one of two things, battery fault or electrical fault. So the car is going in to dealers today for an overnight evaluation of the battery and the warranty covers this service so let's see what comes of that. If it is the battery (which judging by all the other posts on here, it most likely this), I'll just get them to replace it, £225 is expensive, but the last thing I need this is for me to have to also replace the head unit!

FYI - I was aware the battery isn't covered by the Relax warranty - I did say this in my OP. I just wanted to know what was actually covered by this warranty that's all, perhaps I should have made another post about it to avoid confusion! I've since found the T&C's in full and it's all outlined there. Cheers

The hybrid health check sometimes picks up a 12V Battery problem but unless there was an issue during the service I doubt there is anything that they would find. I had a hybrid health check report a few years ago that said the 12V Battery was low but the dealer said they see this quite often if a car comes in when it had done recent short runs only just before the check is done. They said it shouldn't be an issue and it wasn't - subsequent years have always been ok. 

The 12V batteries can fail quite quickly and without much warning, especially since with a hybrid we don't get any indication that it's getting low like extended cranking time on ICE only cars. I carry one of the lithium jump starter packs in the car as I know that one day the 12V Battery will fail without warning! That will get me started again and make sure I can get over to Lexus to get the 12V Battery changed.

[TheBro72]

20 hours ago, wharfhouse said:

The hybrid health check sometimes picks up a 12V battery problem but unless there was an issue during the service I doubt there is anything that they would find. I had a hybrid health check report a few years ago that said the 12V battery was low but the dealer said they see this quite often if a car comes in when it had done recent short runs only just before the check is done. They said it shouldn't be an issue and it wasn't - subsequent years have always been ok. 

The 12V batteries can fail quite quickly and without much warning, especially since with a hybrid we don't get any indication that it's getting low like extended cranking time on ICE only cars. I carry one of the lithium jump starter packs in the car as I know that one day the 12V battery will fail without warning! That will get me started again and make sure I can get over to Lexus to get the 12V battery changed.

UPDATE:- I received the standard courtesy video from Lexus yesterday afternoon. They ran a Medtronic test on the Battery and it came up with 'replace battery' which is being fitted this morning £221.00. They said the lifetime of the Battery is generally between 7 and 11 years. Mine lasted 9 years so bang in the middle, I can't really moan too much but the timing could have been better, right before xmas!

[D Johnson]

On 12/8/2022 at 6:18 PM, D Johnson said:

I am having an issue which may (or may not) be battery related, opinions differ at my dealer.  My IS is a similar age to yours.  About six weeks ago the car would not start and displayed the red warning message “hybrid system stopped.  Shift to P.”  I could not shift to P as I was already in P.  I eventually managed to start it and wrote it off as some sort of sensor malfunction, but unfortunately this was not the end of it.  The next morning I was late for work because the car again refused to start but this time nothing I tried seemed to work and I had to start scouring the Lexus forums for help.  I eventually started the car by pressing and holding the start button for 15 seconds.  I contacted my dealer and the message from the workshop was that it sounded like the 12v battery was flat.  They suggested I call roadside assistance so that they could establish the fault.  This was likely because I live 40 miles away and work long hours so could not just drop in to the dealer.  Given that I could now start the car with my trick, I thought breakdown would not come out to me since I was not broken down.  Long story short, I did some more research and decided it was worth buying a CTEK MXS5 charger and duly recond and charged the battery.  I did not buy a battery tester but I now think I shall because after everything being fine for a week or two things have started to happen again with the red warning message.  From what I can gather, the 12v battery has no alternator and is charged from the traction battery which takes approx one hour of running… 

My question is: if the 12v battery is never fully charging because my commute is 40 minutes each way, will this cause the battery to eventually fail, hence my current problems.  It seems this is something of a known issue on these and the Prius going back many years.  Does anyone know a workaround or should I just accept charging the battery on a regular basis?  

Also Bounce75, what symptoms were you getting as the battery was discharging?  

So an update on my problem as there has been a development.  After recharging the Battery last Thursday evening ready for four days of commuting (60 miles round trip) there were no problems at all.  The car then sat outside for two days and (Tues, Weds) and then today I went to start it to go shopping but nothing doing apart from the red message: hybrid system stopped, shift to P.  It took two attempts to start with my trick of press and hold the start button for 15 seconds whilst pressing hard on the footbrake https://www.lexunx.com/if_the_hybrid_system_will_not_start-111.html  See: “starting the vehicle in an emergency” section. 

This happened several times during my various stopping and starting shopping trip.  I realised I was going to have to spend another £100 and buy a portable jump starter pack.  I decided on the NOCO GB40 and whilst I was at Halfords completing my purchase I asked them to test the Battery and this is what they found: 

[D Johnson]

2 minutes ago, D Johnson said:

So an update on my problem as there has been a development.  After recharging the battery last Thursday evening ready for four days of commuting (60 miles round trip) there were no problems at all.  The car then sat outside for two days and (Tues, Weds) and then today I went to start it to go shopping but nothing doing apart from the red message: hybrid system stopped, shift to P.  It took two attempts to start with my trick of press and hold the start button for 15 seconds whilst pressing hard on the footbrake https://www.lexunx.com/if_the_hybrid_system_will_not_start-111.html  See: “starting the vehicle in an emergency” section. 

This happened several times during my various stopping and starting shopping trip.  I realised I was going to have to spend another £100 and buy a portable jump starter pack.  I decided on the NOCO GB40 and whilst I was at Halfords completing my purchase I asked them to test the battery and this is what they found: 

So that picture has not uploaded with sufficient quality but the ratings were:

Volts 10.74

Measured 41 A 

Rating 325 A 

Unfortunately, this being the busiest time of the year in my industry, I shall not be able to visit my dealer until after everything dies down in the new year.  What are the battery’s chances of doing another 3k miles before it is replaced? (With my trusty little friend NOCO).  

[IS300FSPORT]

1 hour ago, D Johnson said:

So that picture has not uploaded with sufficient quality but the ratings were:

Volts 10.74

Measured 41 A 

Rating 325 A 

Unfortunately, this being the busiest time of the year in my industry, I shall not be able to visit my dealer until after everything dies down in the new year.  What are the battery’s chances of doing another 3k miles before it is replaced? (With my trusty little friend NOCO).  

Invest in GB40 keep it charged in your boot ready to boost you in the event of your Battery dropping below voltage not allowing your car to start it will get you out of trouble.

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/battery-maintenance/jump-starters/noco-gb40-1000a-jump-starter-721898.html

The boost points under your bonnet:

Open the fuse box:

+ Red cable to the positive terminal

- Bllack cable to a metal section in the engine bay

 

[Bounce75]

15 hours ago, D Johnson said:

So that picture has not uploaded with sufficient quality but the ratings were:

Volts 10.74

Measured 41 A 

Rating 325 A 

Unfortunately, this being the busiest time of the year in my industry, I shall not be able to visit my dealer until after everything dies down in the new year.  What are the battery’s chances of doing another 3k miles before it is replaced? (With my trusty little friend NOCO).  

Its a shame you can't get to your Dealer as it only takes an hour to change & should be covered under warranty.

Maybe book it in for when you are free so that at least they know you have an issue with the Battery & don't try & fob you off.

Hopefully it will last until such time you can get it in there.

[LenT]

On 12/15/2022 at 7:09 PM, D Johnson said:

  I realised I was going to have to spend another £100 and buy a portable jump starter pack.  I decided on the NOCO GB40 ….

A very sound investment.  And as I’m sure you’ve noticed, also a useful portable power pack for recharging your phone, iPad and such like!

[cadman2k]

12v Battery just replaced also (at the dealers) the IS300 is not isolated with this within the Lexus range.

Mine was essentially losing its charge over a 3 to 5 day period therefore had just turned bad (4.5 year old).

Interestingly the IS300 is recognised as top spot in reliable cars

Executive cars

Another Lexus takes top spot in the executive cars category ‒ The Lexus IS scored an impressive 98.3%. 

Only 5% of cars developed an issue, each time related to the Battery. The repair work always took a day or less, though it’s worth noting that each time that work incurred a bill of up to £200.

The least reliable motor is the diesel version BMW 3 Series, which scored 81.2%.

Full read here https://www.lovemoney.com/news/70350/reliable-cars-repair-costs-motoring-maserati-bentley-mitsubishi

 

 

 

 

[Mr_Groundhog]

On 12/12/2022 at 12:03 PM, wharfhouse said:

As others have said at that age (unless it was replaced in the last year) the 12V battery will not be covered by Relax as it's a consumable item. If you are going to change the 12V battery then a word of caution - there are some people who have changed the 12V battery themselves only to find that the audio head unit does not work any more when powering the car back up. There are some reports on this forum and in the US. It's not widespread but certainly a concern as replacement of the audio unit is very expensive! No-one has got to the bottom of why this occurs or how to fix the audio unit other than replacing it, at least as far as I am aware. If Lexus change the 12V battery then should this happen it would be their responsibility (they may know how to do it to avoid the issue) but if you decide to change it yourself be aware of the issue though there doesn't seem to be anything to be done to avoid it other than perhaps making sure 12V power is maintained to the car whilst changing the battery.

Does this mean if I disconnect for a few seconds to fit a trickle charger (conected to the socket in my garage) it may also happen? 😕

[Maxz]

On 1/13/2023 at 9:28 AM, Mr_Groundhog said:

Does this mean if I disconnect for a few seconds to fit a trickle charger (conected to the socket in my garage) it may also happen? 😕

Hello again! So if you are trickle charging, you can connect to the Battery without disconnecting it from the car. You can do this direct via the boot or under the bonnet connect negative to the metal strip on the engine block and positive to the jump start terminal in the fuse box.

I changed my 12v last year. When you disconnect you lose all your radio presets and sat nav settings.