Reducing oil usage

[AFlex]

Context: 2007 IS250 Sport Manual, done over 100k miles. Probably 50% of this was inner city driving around London (short trips). Was burning 1litre of oil per 1000miles.

Ridiculous I thought. But the trigger for me to try to fix the problem was that my tailpipes kept getting black a couple of weeks after washing the car!

So I tried Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) to try and degunk the engine.

Since I started this degunking programme, I have used two lots of my 6 litre concoction  (5litres of 5W30 plus 1litre MMO)

I repeated this at 2000-3000 mile intervals

I have also done one further oil change after 3000 miles.

END RESULT: I am now burning around 0.5 litres every 3000 miles. I will probably do the MMO treatment again to see if I can improve it further.

I am going to change oil every 3000 miles from now on. There is no reason not to as when you buy the oil and filters in bulk, an oil change only costs me around £15.

I realise this was typed very fast and english, grammar and punctuation probably sucks! But I thought this info might help someone 

[NemesisUK]

Interesting stuff 

"In an NTSB post aircraft accident investigation published in 2003, it was reported that Marvel Mystery Oil was composed of 74 percent mineral oil, 25 percent stoddard solvent, and 1 percent lard" 

 

 

[Rabbers]

43 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

Interesting stuff 

I don’t know about the product being interesting from a technical standpoint but it has certainly had a patchy commercial history.  The company was for sale for several years until the 1990s but none of the major oil companies to which it was offered wanted it.  I don’t know if this was on financial or technical grounds.  It was finally acquired by Turtle Wax, which does not seem to have put much promotional money into what was seen as a fading brand.

[NemesisUK]

Interesting in that the NSTB investigation pointed to the the engine failure was potentially due to oil additives being used.

The fact that MMO is nothing more than mineral oil, white spirit and animal fat harks back to it's 1920's origin, typical "Snake oil"?

[Malc1]

1 hour ago, Rabbers said:

It was finally acquired by Turtle Wax

maybe they wanted the secret formulae involving the " lard " content to improve car paintwork protection products 😅

Malc

[KingHal]

2 hours ago, Rabbers said:

I don’t know about the product being interesting from a technical standpoint but it has certainly had a patchy commercial history.  The company was for sale for several years until the 1990s but none of the major oil companies to which it was offered wanted it.  I don’t know if this was on financial or technical grounds.  It was finally acquired by Turtle Wax, which does not seem to have put much promotional money into what was seen as a fading brand.

From cash cow to dead dog?

[Rabbers]

1 hour ago, NemesisUK said:

… harks back to it's 1920's origin, typical "Snake oil"?

Classic snake oil, I would agree, and without the redeeming grace, as far as I know, of a legacy of good advertising art.

[LenT]

11 hours ago, AFlex said:

Context: 2007 IS250 Sport Manual, done over 100k miles. Probably 50% of this was inner city driving around London (short trips). Was burning 1litre of oil per 1000miles.

Ridiculous I thought. But the trigger for me to try to fix the problem was that my tailpipes kept getting black a couple of weeks after washing the car!

So I tried Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) to try and degunk the engine.

Since I started this degunking programme, I have used two lots of my 6 litre concoction  (5litres of 5W30 plus 1litre MMO)

I repeated this at 2000-3000 mile intervals

I have also done one further oil change after 3000 miles.

END RESULT: I am now burning around 0.5 litres every 3000 miles. I will probably do the MMO treatment again to see if I can improve it further.

I am going to change oil every 3000 miles from now on. There is no reason not to as when you buy the oil and filters in bulk, an oil change only costs me around £15.

I realise this was typed very fast and english, grammar and punctuation probably sucks! But I thought this info might help someone 

Having been involved in the launch of motor oils and 'performance improvers', I know that the biggest stumbling block is the acquisition of authoritative independent testing to support any claims that are made.  So it's significant that MMO has apparently failed to present any such evidence.

Apart from that, such is the development of the additive packages that modern oils contain that I doubt any manufacturer would approve the addition of any other product to their blend.  So it's possible that doing so would invalidate any claim regarding damage or loss of performance.

[Mr Vlad]

Eh up Len. Interesting post. If that were the case then why, for example, do Lexus make recommendations for additives? Personally speaking I've been using Millers additives in all my cars for the past 20 years. Also every car for the past 30 years the first thing I've done before driving it home was to add a dose of ZX1 into the engine oil.

The manufacturers of these products are not fly by night but respected by probably millions worldwide. They have spent lots of time and money in evaluation and research and testing. 

I fully appreciate your involvement in the launch of motor oils but please do not scare monger those who choose to use an additive in their vehicle. I've actually told Rover/MG and Ford and Lexus garages I use additives and which ones and each congratulated me in my choices and guess what? Each of the engines have run oh so sweet that the aforementioned garages commented positively. 

[LenT]

As ever, you make some very valid observations, Vladimir.

1 hour ago, Mr Vlad said:

why, for example, do Lexus make recommendations for additives?

Well, I can't speak for Lexus, but this point came up in earlier post.  If you're referring to a detergent cleaner supplied by Texaco, then I offered a more detailed explanation in this post:   

 

2 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

Personally speaking I've been using Millers additives in all my cars for the past 20 years.

Haven't looked into Millers additives, so can't comment.

2 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

Also every car for the past 30 years the first thing I've done before driving it home was to add a dose of ZX1 into the engine oil.

But this was a blast from the past!

I've not heard of ZX1 but looking through their website I would say it is probably identical to a product called Slick50 that I launched many years ago.  They are rather shy about divulging its constituents, but judging from their claims and its mode of operation, I would suggest that it's remarkably similar to the PTFE based Slick50 - despite stating at one point that it is not P.T.F.E. molybdenum!  In which case it may well deliver its claims, despite not providing the detailed evidence that we had to!

2 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

but please do not scare monger those who choose to use an additive in their vehicle.

I don't think that pointing out that MMO doesn't provide evidence to support its claims is actually 'scare mongering'.  In reality, their suggested dilution of one 4oz bottle to 10 gallons (US, presumably) is a dilution of over 300:1 - (I stand to have my maths corrected!) - which I suggest is neither here nor there.

As I concluded earlier, modern lubrication technology is now so sophisticated that it's unlikely that any additive is going to produce a significant improvement over the designed parameters of a modern product.  On the other hand, it's just as unlikely to do any damage!  It's just that a subjective reaction is not the same as highly controlled and comparative scientific analysis.

It may interest you know, that we had to support all our claims by providing authoritative analytical evidence to such as The Advertising Standards Authority - and they would not accept even a single 'unsolicited'  testimonial as evidence!

[ColinBarber]

Lexus don't advise the use of additives because they don't want to imply their engines need it.

If you are consuming oil then it is probably carbon build up on the piston oil control rings which seize up and let oil passed, and ultimately will wear the bores to the point where it will irreparably let more oil through. Getting rid of carbon deposits is difficult, so products with PEA as the best but even these are not really effective if you are just adding a small concentration to the fuel. I'm currently trying a couple of products on my son's Yaris but I think it will get to the point where I'll need to pour some directly into the cylinders and let it sit for a couple of days and then change the oil.

[Mr Vlad]

Blimey Slick 50. I remember that stuff. It's probably similar to ZX1. What made me go for ZX1 was a test rig. A very powerful motor with very high torque which was used to spin a super strong tough metal ring. Imagine then a long bar pivoted so that when it was pressed down it made contact with that spinning ring. Where the two touched imagine having a piece of metal static that it. When that bar with the piece of metal attached was forced onto that spinning ring obviously the piece of metal got ruddy hot and started to wear massively. Now after changing the piece of metal and placing a couple of drops of ZX1 the same test done. Full body weight to a point the powerful motor started to slow but the piece of metal looked perfect. No over heating. No smoke. No wear. I was hooked and still am. Other products claiming to aid wear and tear were used but failed miserably. I think Slick 50 was one of them. 

Like I've said. Companies like Millers have been going for decades and I'm damn sure fuel companies know of them and if they thought Millers products could detract from the properties within the fuel companies petrol they'd certainly tell them that. As far as I know they haven't. 

[LenT]

21 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Other products claiming to aid wear and tear were used but failed miserably. I think Slick 50 was one of them. 

In our day, the comparable test was called The Four Ball test.  It involved one large ball bearing rotating at high speed under pressure in a nest of three similar ball bearings - which Slick50 prevented from fusing into a solid mass!

A more practical demonstration was conducted at Mallory racetrack.  We had three cars of similar age - two had been treated with Slick50.  The oil was drained from all three and they set off in convey around the track - LED by Roger Clark.

The untreated car seized up in less than one lap; the other two continued until Roger called it a day after 50 laps because he was bored!

[Rabbers]

There was a time when I would squirt a bottle of injector cleaner into my tank every three or four refuellings.  By so doing I felt I was making my car happier in much the same way as tastier morsels of food elicited a higher level of appreciative purring or woofing from a pet.  But I gradually came to believe that it didn’t, at least not in terms of noticeably improved ignition, performance or engine sound. Nevertheless, because I took the absence of negative media reports and expert opinion, as well as STP’s good reputation, to mean that I was doing my car no harm, I continued to use the stuff as much out of habit as anything else.  When I finally decided to stop, it was because I felt that I had allowed myself to be unduly influenced by the thought, implicit in the word “cleaner” that my injectors were dirty even though I had no evidence whatsoever of it.  And if in fact they might actually have been dirty, I figured that the detergent additives already contained in the petrol were more than good enough to do the job.

[Bluemarlin]

I'm in two minds about oil additives, as you hear some stories of success, and some where it makes no difference.  Additionally, in the case of the OP, where he reports some success, it's hard to tell whether that's the result of the Marvel Mystery Oil, or simply the effect of doing several 2-3k mile oil changes in quick succession.

[LenT]

47 minutes ago, Rabbers said:

I figured that the detergent additives already contained in the petrol were more than good enough to do the job.

These days I would think that is indeed the case.

[Malc1]

in my standard and unmolested    4ltr V8    I have NEVER used oil additives and she runs as sweet as a nut ......  27 years and 242k miles ....  annual service and oil and oil filter changes and only ever used simple oils .........  like Wilko Semi-Synthetic these past many years 

BUT as a lad, 55 years back, serving fuel at a petrol station in Chislehurst Kent I was often asked to do a squirt of Redex a gallon  .  remember a Rolls Royce would always pop £5 of petrol  5 Star super dooper   101 ? Octane stuff too methinks  AND a squirt of Redex ......  maybe cars needed that back in those days !

Malc

[Spock66]

Always worth checking the PCV system if you have higher oil consumption.

[Rabbers]

On 12/7/2022 at 9:46 AM, NemesisUK said:

... MMO ... typical "Snake oil"?

Speaking of the U.S. snake oil tradition in automotive lubricants etc., here's an interesting precursor of MMO from 1900 (? - or claimed to have been founded then) with a name exploiting the bestselling Wizard of Oz novel first published in that year accompanied by a graphic depicting the Tin Man character, rather cleverly in that he needed rustproofing and lubrication.  If the date is not spurious, the product preceded MMO by two decades (and the movie by nearly four) and maybe was the inspiration for it.  It would be interesting to know what the ingredients were.  If lard was not among them, maybe whale oil, plentiful at the time, or bear fat were used, or goodness knows what else.

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, Rabbers said:

Speaking of the U.S. snake oil tradition in automotive lubricants etc., here's an interesting precursor of MMO from 1900 (? - or claimed to have been founded then) with a name exploiting the bestselling Wizard of Oz novel first published in that year accompanied by a graphic depicting the Tin Man character, rather cleverly in that he needed rustproofing and lubrication.  If the date is not spurious, the product preceded MMO by two decades (and the movie by nearly four) and maybe was the inspiration for it.  It would be interesting to know what the ingredients were.  If lard was not among them, maybe whale oil, plentiful at the time, or bear fat were used, or goodness knows what else.

Olive Oyl was PopEye’s girlfriend, he mentioned her name sounded like a lubricant.  Natural cold pressed olive oil is the best.

[Malc1]

2 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Natural cold pressed olive oil is the best.

on salads !

Malc

[Rabbers]

4 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Is that a puddle of dirty oil I see between OO’s boots?

[Rabbers]

12 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

on salads !

Malc

I note that both you and John are experts on extra virgins!

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, Malc1 said:

on salads !

Malc

In all kinds of food.

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, Rabbers said:

I note that both you and John are experts on extra virgins!

Takes one to know one, Renato old boy.🤣👍