Not a happy bunny

[NemesisUK]

40 minutes ago, george72 said:

Even if I pay the finance immediately, I still lose the 2k contribution. 

But you don't incur any interim price rise on the car? 

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, talaipwros said:

Just to let you know that there are still around - but not for long -  a few RX450h's well discounted and at 3.9% rate.

where are they found Vas ?

[talaipwros]

11 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

where are they found Vas ?

a few on autotrader and carwow

 

https://quotes.carwow.co.uk/deals/258f5733156c2de36efd578b3812391c

 

this one in Stockport ( which is RRG, like Bolton) is a Takumi

 

Brand new - In-stock

Lexus RX 450h 3.5 CVT Takumi

 

Photo is for illustrative purposes

 

Marc Campbell

Stockport Lexus

 

carwow PCP offer

£60,631

You save

£7,654 (11.2%)

Representative APR 3.9%. carwow offer and savings include any discount offered by the dealer and a Lexus deposit contribution of £3,000

 

I wouldn't be surprised if there is some wiggle room

 

 

 

[Guest]

19 hours ago, rayaans said:

I understand the disappointment that you may be feeling especially waiting so long for the vehicle.

However - it is explicitly stated in the terms and conditions that the finance deal can change

Lexus UK or the dealer might give you a goodwill gesture and you do have the option of paying the finance off as well if you really want the car. 

Unfortunately I dont think anyone can really guarantee the APR at the current time 

So what is the point in working out a deal with your chosen dealer, signing order forms and finance , getting a written breakdown of all costs and monthly payments, if the dealer can then 9 months later say you can't have the finance deal you agreed too ?

Are we seriously expected to order cars, not knowing what the actual cost will be once it turns up?

The manufacturer and dealer accepted the order on the terms originally offered, knowing the build would take 9 months and accepted that. 

If Lexus and the dealers are not going to honour deals and finance offers, then they will be losing a lot of customers 

[talaipwros]

2 minutes ago, PaulD68 said:

So what is the point in working out a deal with your chosen dealer, signing order forms and finance , getting a written breakdown of all costs and monthly payments, if the dealer can then 9 months later say you can't have the finance deal you agreed too ?

Are we seriously expected to order cars, not knowing what the actual cost will be once it turns up?

The manufacturer and dealer accepted the order on the terms originally offered, knowing the build would take 9 months and accepted that. 

If Lexus and the dealers are not going to honour deals and finance offers, then they will be losing a lot of customers 

it happened with lots of mortgages too to be fair.

[rayaans]

2 minutes ago, PaulD68 said:

So what is the point in working out a deal with your chosen dealer, signing order forms and finance , getting a written breakdown of all costs and monthly payments, if the dealer can then 9 months later say you can't have the finance deal you agreed too ?

Are we seriously expected to order cars, not knowing what the actual cost will be once it turns up?

The manufacturer and dealer accepted the order on the terms originally offered, knowing the build would take 9 months and accepted that. 

If Lexus and the dealers are not going to honour deals and finance offers, then they will be losing a lot of customers 

Well if you read terms and conditions then yes that is precisely what is expected to happen.

Most of these agreements don't honour the prices yet nobody even reads the fine print. VAG tend to honour the prices at order but that's written in their contract. 

The manufacturer and dealer accepted the order yes, but they also provided anyone with documentation clearly stating prices/finance could go up at anytime. Unfortunately it's just the way it is at this current time

[Guest]

1 minute ago, talaipwros said:

it happened with lots of mortgages too to be fair.

Was that not just mortgages being withdrawn prior to customers accepting them?

i accept that offers can change at anytime, but once youve signed up to it , they shouldnt be able to go back on it . 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Well if you read terms and conditions then yes that is precisely what is expected to happen.

Most of these agreements don't honour the prices yet nobody even reads the fine print. VAG tend to honour the prices at order but that's written in their contract. 

The manufacturer and dealer accepted the order yes, but they also provided anyone with documentation clearly stating prices/finance could go up at anytime. Unfortunately it's just the way it is at this current time

The only terms on my order form that say they can increase the price of the car is in relation to VAT or other taxes. Other than that, once they have accepted the order, that is the price i expect to pay.

Dealers are all to quick to advertise when quarterly price rises are coming and to order before that date to protect the price you're paying.

This may not now be the case, but the dealers need to stop publishing and advertising that if it's now not the case

There are clauses relating to obvious pricing errors etc but not if they decide to change finance deals, increase list prices or other increases.

I guess we all read and interpret these terms differently. 

 

[wharfhouse]

10 minutes ago, PaulD68 said:

So what is the point in working out a deal with your chosen dealer, signing order forms and finance , getting a written breakdown of all costs and monthly payments, if the dealer can then 9 months later say you can't have the finance deal you agreed too ?

Are we seriously expected to order cars, not knowing what the actual cost will be once it turns up?

The manufacturer and dealer accepted the order on the terms originally offered, knowing the build would take 9 months and accepted that. 

If Lexus and the dealers are not going to honour deals and finance offers, then they will be losing a lot of customers 

The problem IMHO is the lead time on new cars. When one could order a new car and receive delivery in two to three months max then the chances of price rises and major shifts in APR were remote (or factored in) so the problem never really occurred (though appreciate the interest rate changes this time were rather sudden!). Now we are facing 12 months plus wait time so much can change in the world economics / personal circumstances / manufacturer circumstances who knows how the land will lie when the car finally arrives. This is the main reason why I have no intention of ordering a new car until the ridiculous lead times (and I appreciate the reasons are largely laid at the door or chip shortages) normalises to a few months max again. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

The problem IMHO is the lead time on new cars. When one could order a new car and receive delivery in two to three months max then the chances of price rises and major shifts in APR were remote (or factored in) so the problem never really occurred (though appreciate the interest rate changes this time were rather sudden!). Now we are facing 12 months plus wait time so much can change in the world economics / personal circumstances / manufacturer circumstances who knows how the land will lie when the car finally arrives. This is the main reason why I have no intention of ordering a new car until the ridiculous lead times (and I appreciate the reasons are largely laid at the door or chip shortages) normalises to a few months max again. 

if manufacturers were not quoting those long lead times i could understand prices or finance changing, but they accept the orders knowing how long it is going to take .

If the lead time was expected to be 2 months, and it took 12 months due to problems that would be understandable, but they are entering into contracts with expected lead times of 9-12 months , so how can they change the contract after entering into it knowing how long it would take? 

[talaipwros]

I need to rethink the RZ pre-order then. The reason I paid the £2000 for a car that I am told will arrive in 2024, is the price guarantee.

If that guarantee doesn't exist, what is the point of giving them my £2000 ?

Even if I get them back next year, they had a 0% £2000 loan with my money at a 10% interest rates  financial environment

[wharfhouse]

26 minutes ago, PaulD68 said:

if manufacturers were not quoting those long lead times i could understand prices or finance changing, but they accept the orders knowing how long it is going to take .

If the lead time was expected to be 2 months, and it took 12 months due to problems that would be understandable, but they are entering into contracts with expected lead times of 9-12 months , so how can they change the contract after entering into it knowing how long it would take? 

What I meant was that the T&Cs haven't changed - they have always been in favour of the manufacturer - just that when we had short lead times (a few months) the issue just didn't arise or any small increases were absorbed by the manufacturer - with so many cars on such long lead times they have obviously decided they wont / can't do that any more. 

[beyond the blue]

I was told by my dealer that once I signed the purchase order l would receive the car at the stated price but the finance was only a quotation and didn't become a contract until it was signed on collection of the car. It's unfortunate that the finance has changed but it is in the terms.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, beyond the blue said:

I was told by my dealer that once I signed the purchase order l would receive the car at the stated price but the finance was only a quotation and didn't become a contract until it was signed on collection of the car. It's unfortunate that the finance has changed but it is in the terms.

wow , i wasnt told that, if thats the case ill be cancelling my order. no way im losing the £2k deposit allowance and paying 9.9% APR.

 

[george72]

19 minutes ago, PaulD68 said:

wow , i wasnt told that, if thats the case ill be cancelling my order. no way im losing the £2k deposit allowance and paying 9.9% 

 

I was not told this either! i am afraid this is the deal breaker for me- the finance deal made the purchase viable and now its not! 

 

 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, george72 said:

 

I was not told this either! i am afraid this is the deal breaker for me- the finance deal made the purchase viable and now its not! 

 

 

Lets hope its all been a mistake and your finance will be sorted out at the rate you agreed. 

If it was a directive from Lexus or Lexus finance, then it would be a case of take it or leave it.

The fact they've lent you a car suggests that isn't the case and there's hope it can be sorted out with a positive ending.

[beyond the blue]

45 minutes ago, PaulD68 said:

wow , i wasnt told that, if thats the case ill be cancelling my order. no way im losing the £2k deposit allowance and paying 9.9% APR.

 

As an addition, l was also told that the trade in offer was not guaranteed until handover. The dealer is also obliged (if requested) to disclose the commission they receive from the finance company. I requested the amount and was surprised at how little it was. As others have said you can pay off the finance after the first payment has been made with a small interest forfeit, however if it is paid off very early the dealer loses their commission.

 

 

 

[cdmaskell]

You will not lose all the 2k contribution.  You pay a small amount of interest on the loan.  As previously stated. 

[royoftherovers]

6 hours ago, talaipwros said:

a few on autotrader and carwow

 

https://quotes.carwow.co.uk/deals/258f5733156c2de36efd578b3812391c

 

this one in Stockport ( which is RRG, like Bolton) is a Takumi

 

Brand new - In-stock

Lexus RX 450h 3.5 CVT Takumi

 

Photo is for illustrative purposes

 

Marc Campbell

Stockport Lexus

 

carwow PCP offer

£60,631

You save

£7,654 (11.2%)

Representative APR 3.9%. carwow offer and savings include any discount offered by the dealer and a Lexus deposit contribution of £3,000

 

I wouldn't be surprised if there is some wiggle room

 

 

 

thanks

[DavidCM]

What I'm going to say only concerns PART of this discussion...not Lexus' attitude.

There is an easy way to solve Finance Co. problems..... don't use them.Why don't people save up for things anymore? If you haven't got the money in your back pocket...do without it until you've saved for it.

Apart from my mortgage, I have never borrowed money,for anything.I paid my mortgage off as quickly as I could,long before retiring.

Only then could I afford to indulge myself in cars,watches etc, etc.Look back at what happened in the late 1980's.interest / mortgage rates at 15 per cent..people who had overstretched themselves came to a sticky end.It looks like history may repeat itself fairly soon....so if you can't afford it,do without,or try that old fashioned thing of saving. It's hardly rocket science.

.

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, DavidCM said:

What I'm going to say only concerns PART of this discussion...not Lexus' attitude.

There is an easy way to solve Finance Co. problems..... don't use them.Why don't people save up for things anymore? If you haven't got the money in your back pocket...do without it until you've saved for it.

Apart from my mortgage, I have never borrowed money,for anything.I paid my mortgage off as quickly as I could,long before retiring.

Even if you have the money, paying cash for a car these days normally gets you the worst deal. No dealer/manufacturer incentives and less margin available for the dealer to give you a discount. Purchase with finance, take the offers available and pay off straight away is the best deal.

Also before this year you could get a good interest rate and put your money to better use. Plenty of very wealthy people finance their cars when they could pay for them outright.

[Dippo]

2 hours ago, cdmaskell said:

You will not lose all the 2k contribution.  You pay a small amount of interest on the loan.  As previously stated. 

Please explain how you don't lose all the contribution if they are no longer offering it.

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, DavidCM said:

What I'm going to say only concerns PART of this discussion...not Lexus' attitude.

There is an easy way to solve Finance Co. problems..... don't use them.Why don't people save up for things anymore? If you haven't got the money in your back pocket...do without it until you've saved for it.

Apart from my mortgage, I have never borrowed money,for anything.I paid my mortgage off as quickly as I could,long before retiring.

Only then could I afford to indulge myself in cars,watches etc, etc.Look back at what happened in the late 1980's.interest / mortgage rates at 15 per cent..people who had overstretched themselves came to a sticky end.It looks like history may repeat itself fairly soon....so if you can't afford it,do without,or try that old fashioned thing of saving. It's hardly rocket science.

.

Culture today is very different - almost a disposable culture. Makes sense then when Lloyds Bank recently stated that most of the accounts that people have with them dont even have £500 in them.

As Colin says - the cheaper way usually now is to pay off the finance immediately and take all the incentives. But at the end of the day it still requires people to save up

Gone are the days where people would drive around cars they could actually afford. Instead we see many youngsters loaded to the gilt in monthly outgoings.

Cost of living crisis? Ive long called bull**** on it. Its only a crisis if you dont have enough saved up to begin with or aren't great with money in my opinion.

[First_Lexus]

As an aside, if you signed a finance agreement at (say) 7% but interest rates FELL to (say) 4% in the interim period, do we think Toyota Finance would call to reduce your rate?

Perhaps they would, but I’m guessing use of the terms and conditions only works in one direction, with the caveat that (as here) the customer would have the option to cancel or at least negotiate.

[First_Lexus]

14 hours ago, DavidCM said:

There is an easy way to solve Finance Co. problems..... don't use them.Why don't people save up for things anymore? If you haven't got the money in your back pocket...do without it until you've saved for it.

Understand the point, but it is quite an outdated concept. We live in a ‘get what you want’ rather than a ‘buy what you need and can afford’ culture, with economic growth (whatever that means!) locked into that.

I essentially lease my Lexus using a PCP at 1.9% whereas my savings are locked away at significantly more than that. Personally I can’t see the point in using savings in such a circumstance and I guess a lot of people are the same. However, I’m fortunate in terms of the age I am having benefitted from house price growth and good pensions etc.

As @rayaansand @ColinBarbernote, the bigger issue is those who take on loans without any headroom if circumstances change…but I have to say, I think that’s been the case for decades. It’s a bit too easy for those of a certain age - and I include myself - to deride the choices of those in a very different financial situation and operating in a very different financial landscape. We have become addicted to cheap credit in the Western world, and tbh I think a lot of us knew it couldn’t last forever.

None of that makes your original point wrong by the way…