IS250 - Is this Worth It

[Ozzay]

Hi, 

I had a previous post once showing my costs of ownership.

I have a new repair bill. I went to someone proper to have a look at the car because the car was vibrating at the steering.

I also had a rough idle after the new gasket seals were put on both rocker cover L + R and tube gasket seals 6. 

It gets rough after being warm and car vibrates and shakes. Still have not found the problem even after taking it to a family friend who is a very good mechanic and found the electrical ground was not connected, he found no vacuum leaks either.

I have gone to a specialist who knows Lexus cars and this guy has been working at Lexus for a long time and has his own garage (Lex/Toy specialist in London).

He has quoted me this:

Description	Quantity	Amount
Labour 2 rear caliper + brake bleed	2	£120.00
Labour replace intake manifold gasket	1	£80.00
Labour wheel alignment full 4 + balance 2 front tyres	1	£80.00
Rear caliper	2	£369.28
Manifold gasket	1	£71.80
		£865.30

 

There is no guarantee the vibration will go away of course the tyres need balancing and alignment according to him based on the way the tyres have been eaten at the front. But what if there is a steering rack issue not that he said there is one.

He put it under the ramp and saw the driver rear calliper was seized which I could see because it was rusted badly and this is the one I previously was told to repair. The other calliper passenger rear was put on in March and it was aftermarket new and I had to find the top pin because it was difficult and this one has seized. Basically next time the brake pads are changed it will be difficult.

Aside from the vibration which might get fixed by wheel balancing and alignment and the rough idle is the car worth keeping or repairing?

Here is my current spend so far on it which I showed in a previous post:

 

	Date	Parts	Mileage	Cost
Aquired on	11/01/2021	First fuel was Shell 99 Octane
Last service on purchase	2018
Purchase Halfords	12/01/2021	Castrol Magnatec 5W30 A5 Oil 4 Litre x2		£35.00
Purchase EuroCarParts	12/01/2021	Crosland Air Filter, Bosch Oil Filter, Crosland Cabin Filter		£31.61
Service	16/01/2021	Crosland Air Filter, Bosch Oil Filter, Crosland Cabin Filte, Oil Magnatec A5		£30.00
Wheel Alignment	20/01/2021	Only front wheel was slightly off, not too bad. All green.		£40.00
New Front Tyres	03/03/2021	Dunlop Sport Maxx RT 2 225/45 R17 Y (94) X2		£160.00
OBD Home Check	02/03/2021	OBD Reader		£0.00
Trans Oil Change Full	11/06/2021	Filter & Gasket Seal & 5L Oil (Aisin Gearbox Fluid)		£280.00
Brakes	22/06/2021	Pagid Front brake discs and Pads		£170.10
Service	17/08/2021	Engine Oil and Oil Filter (Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 6L)	88413	£115.77
Coolant 4L Roughly Drain/Refill	06/10/2021	Toyota Super Long Life Coolant	89477	£74.88
Service	18/03/2022	Engine Oil and Oil Filter and Air Filter (Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 6L)	93000	£121.79
Brakes	18/03/2022	Pagid Rear brake discs and Pads	93000	£127.19
Driver Rear Caliper Repair	18/03/2022	N/A	93000	£80.00
New Passenger Rear Caliper	25/03/2022	Purchased Pin Sliding Kit (Toyota Parts and eBay) + Pagid Caliper	93050	£149.18
Wheel Alignment	05/04/2022	No issues (check only)		£20.00
OBD Home Check	29/04/2022	OBD Reader	93000	£0.00
Spark Plugs (Original Denso) + Labour	11/05/2022	Lexus Parts Direct and £60 Labour	93111	£143.98
Oil Additive	11/05/2022	STP Oil Treatment X2		£11.00
Hydraulic Additive	12/05/2022	Wynns Hydraulic Lifter Fluid		£10.00
Car Body Repair	04/05/2022			£220.00
Gasket Seal Repair	20/06/2022	Tube Gasket Seals and Rocker Cover Gaskets	93600	£300.00
2 front ball joints	15/07/2022	Both sides	94400	£200.00
2 Rear Tyres	23/09/2022	Goodyear Rear Asym 5	97000	£290.00
Service and Fixes	15/10/2022	Mobil 1 Oil and + Filters + Checks and Fixes	98151	£101.00
Hydraulic Additive	16/10/2022	Wynns Hydraulic Lifter Fluid	98151	£10
			Car Cost	£2600
			Maintenance	£2,721.50
			TOTAL	£4,720.50

 

 

By the way I know the calipers are what drives the price here high and he said he will only get them from Lexus dealers as he does not use the aftermarket stuff.

Also there is no guarantee that the intake seal will fix the rough idle he just said you should always change it. Seems like a genuine guy.

[Ozzay]

By the way I know the calipers are what drives the price here high and he said he will only get them from Lexus dealers as he does not use the aftermarket stuff.

[LIJO151]

IMHO yes.

Looking at your list alot is what I class as wear and tear. 

I will agree that the Lexus maintenance is more expensive than alot of other car manufacturers. Unfortunately sometimes it best to go back to the main dealer to get things fixed. 

Finally Lexus cars are well screwed and I'm hoping its better fighting off rust than my old Honda, which lasted for 16 years.

[J Henderson]

15 hours ago, LIJO151 said:

IMHO yes.

Looking at your list alot is what I class as wear and tear.

Pretty much. And some of the things are one-off, long-term outlays - Coolant, spark plugs, gearbox fluid etc that won't need attention for a while.

According to the list, the rear calipers were only replaced or repaired in March...and now they need replaced again?

[LenT]

I think the two previous replies are sound advice.

You don’t mention mileage or general condition, but this is, after all, a 15 year old car.  And you do appear to have already spent a reasonable sum on repair - including bodywork - and maintenance quite recently.

You could consider if you’ve had any advisories after the MoT and check its secondhand or p/x value.  And if you went down that route, what would you replace it with?

As has already been mentioned, Lexus has a very good reputation for reliability.  So it would seem that on balance - and considering the current value of the car - you can risk continuing your ownership and get the benefit of what you’ve already invested, even though it now requires a presumably smaller sum to deal with this latest problem.

[Ozzay]

Thanks for the replies.

I was thinking about skipping the passenger rear caliper as that was the one that was changed and it is new I might just change the pins instead.

[MartinH]

My IS250 is same year as yours but has been serviced for its lifetime by Lexus agents (Lexus Edgware Road for the 11 years I've owned it). Regardless, I have had to pay some big repair bills. Things do just wear out! It remains a pleasure to own and use, and I concur with @LenT above that, on balance, it's worth it. (The cost of a new Corolla is not trivial.)

[aod.is200]

Owned my IS250 since may, bought it knowing it would need some work and because of that I have spend hundreds on it. Been in the same boat as you thinking whether or not it's worth it but in the long run I definitely think it's worth keeping. 

Keep on top of maintenance like you have been and you'll have a solid reliable car for many more years to come.

[scudney]

Sound advice,nice one 👍

[Spock66]

23 hours ago, Ozzay said:

Description	Quantity	Amount
Labour 2 rear caliper + brake bleed	2	£120.00
Labour replace intake manifold gasket	1	£80.00
Labour wheel alignment full 4 + balance 2 front tyres	1	£80.00
Rear caliper	2	£369.28
Manifold gasket	1	£71.80
		£865.30

I think the only one of these that may fix the rough idle would be the intake manifold gasket if there is a vacuum leak, has your mechanic confirmed this? A properly equipped garage would have a smoke machine for testing this.

I don't see any point in forking out for brand new calipers until the engine issue is resolved.

[Ozzay]

24 minutes ago, Spock66 said:

I think the only one of these that may fix the rough idle would be the intake manifold gasket if there is a vacuum leak, has your mechanic confirmed this? A properly equipped garage would have a smoke machine for testing this.

I don't see any point in forking out for brand new calipers until the engine issue is resolved.

The rough idle only happens when the car is warmed up and then I am standing still (D,N,P). Sometimes the car will hesitate as well but overall still good but not like before. Good advice.

[H3XME]

@Ozzay

In terms of the rough idles and vibrations, I have nothing to say. Never came across this and my car was on 176k.. 

as for service items, you seem to be paying A LOT. It also seems like you're buying an air filter every year? You don't need to.. they last 20k miles easy. 

My service costs over the 3 years and almost 50k miles of ownership were something like this:

Oil filter ~£5 x5

Oil ~£50 x5 

Elbow grease £0

New slider pins (front & rear) ~£50 for both axles

Rear caliper carrier bracket - £90 (one was seized)

Rear brake pads ~£20 (once every 3 years it worked out)

Front brake pads ~£25 x2 (once every 2 years it worked out)

Rear brake discs ~£55 (needed them once)

Front brake discs ~£50 (needed them once)

Elbow grease £0

Spark plugs - ~£120 (every 60,000 miles)

Elbow grease £0

Air filter ~£20 x2 (every 20,000 miles)

Cabin filter ~£10 x2 (every 20,000 miles)

Elbow grease £0

Clutch & gearbox flush (bearing, friction disc & pressure plate, gear oil) ~£250 - first ever clutch change at ~145,000 miles - DMF was good to reuse

Labour ~£200

Toyo Proxes TR1 & Accelera 651 Sport (semi-slicks) 225/40R18 - £60/tyre > £240/set once a year.. went through 3 sets of tyres in 3 years = £720

Grand total ~£1940... that's with a clutch job you wouldn't need on an automatic and excessive tyre wear from too much camber. 

Of course I didn't have any issues with gaskets etc, but I did blow up 3 M&L subwoofers that cost me ~£60 each and one amplifier ~£80... this was arguably self inflicted though. High volume high bass music.

I don't think it's too bad in terms of service cost.. minus the carrier bracket, slider pins and stereo issues these figures would be very similar to any other regular car. 

 

 

[Ozzay]

The rough idle was caused by a mechanic who changed my spark plugs and suggested the rocket cover seals should be replaced because of oil leaks.

He then took on the job a month after the spark plug job. I detected the rough idle shortly after and he didn't have a clue as to what to do. He was acting like he knew it all when I gave him suggestions and then blamed the fuel injectors for being dirty. He did a poor job of putting screws back on and guiding the wires through the brackets properly and he even missed putting the ground cables on properly (as found by another mechanic who I know personally). Lexus dealer would have charged £600 for the replacement including parts and now that I think about it that would have been the better choice but that's hindsight. Someone also suggested to me don't bother changing the seals but I thought its preventative maintenance 

But the issue with these mechanics is, they don't know about Lexus caliper's well enough and this is why I went to a specialist. Too many cowboy mechanics out there.

I think the suggestions from everyone here is positive because I have looked for other cars and I wouldn't find a car like this for at least 10-15k and that would have to be a BMW which is used which probably would get more money thrown at it because I do take care of the cars I have. A friend of mine has a BMW 520D bill to replace a heater unit/component which has previously failed on cheaper parts which is costing £500 including labour, that does make me feel better but I need to think about being realistic as well.

I think the advise from @Spock66is good. I will do the work on the intake manifold first see if it fixes the issue and then see if the cars worth keeping.

[Ozzay]

1 hour ago, H3XME said:

@Ozzay

In terms of the rough idles and vibrations, I have nothing to say. Never came across this and my car was on 176k.. 

as for service items, you seem to be paying A LOT. It also seems like you're buying an air filter every year? You don't need to.. they last 20k miles easy. 

My service costs over the 3 years and almost 50k miles of ownership were something like this:

Oil filter ~£5 x5

Oil ~£50 x5 

Elbow grease £0

New slider pins (front & rear) ~£50 for both axles

Rear caliper carrier bracket - £90 (one was seized)

Rear brake pads ~£20 (once every 3 years it worked out)

Front brake pads ~£25 x2 (once every 2 years it worked out)

Rear brake discs ~£55 (needed them once)

Front brake discs ~£50 (needed them once)

Elbow grease £0

Spark plugs - ~£120 (every 60,000 miles)

Elbow grease £0

Air filter ~£20 x2 (every 20,000 miles)

Cabin filter ~£10 x2 (every 20,000 miles)

Elbow grease £0

Clutch & gearbox flush (bearing, friction disc & pressure plate, gear oil) ~£250 - first ever clutch change at ~145,000 miles - DMF was good to reuse

Labour ~£200

Toyo Proxes TR1 & Accelera 651 Sport (semi-slicks) 225/40R18 - £60/tyre > £240/set once a year.. went through 3 sets of tyres in 3 years = £720

Grand total ~£1940... that's with a clutch job you wouldn't need on an automatic and excessive tyre wear from too much camber. 

Of course I didn't have any issues with gaskets etc, but I did blow up 3 M&L subwoofers that cost me ~£60 each and one amplifier ~£80... this was arguably self inflicted though. High volume high bass music.

I don't think it's too bad in terms of service cost.. minus the carrier bracket, slider pins and stereo issues these figures would be very similar to any other regular car. 

 

 

Is this including labour?

[H3XME]

6 minutes ago, Ozzay said:

Is this including labour?

DIY. I only paid labour when I had my clutch done ~£200 as stated in the reply

[is200 Newbie]

Can't you look at the rear calipers yourself - arguably the easier caliper between front and rear to service - look to see if they have seized and if they are not too far gone then you can free them, grease and put them back together - no need to remove them from the brake system on the car to do that.

Use the correct grease on them, red rubber grease from Toyota which can (the last time i bought it) be bought from Toyota for £10 (toothpaste sized tube) or eBay.

Doing the rear brakes, even if it takes an hour or so and you get them greased etc will save you almost £500 and it will give you an idea on how to maintain them in the future as they do need regular maintenance (greasing)

Also - if you look on eBay then you can source two new genuine rear calipers for around £244 - you can also source non OEM ones for around £60 each and as the garage will not fit anything other than OEM then have another garage fit these ...

[Lex_utor]

For my last MOT I had to invest basically double that, although in Euros. My fuel tank was too rusty so I had to have another one put in. Tank and heatshield. It was a huge job as the whole rear axle has to come off. Huge bill. 

But in the end the reasoning I used to decide if it was worthy or not was the following: Can I buy another 4 doors luxury saloon, with all the luxury features I have and my car is loaded, RWD, manual tranmission, petrol, at least V6, as well designed, built, finished and reliable, which looks as good, for the money my car is worth? The asnwer was no. So I paid for the repair and couldn't be happier with my decision. 

[Thelongterm]

What he said.

 

There are no new creatures like this for sale anymore.

Personally can't see how I can do my 6000 miles a year in a better way (both financially and everything else).

I can't see myself ever fork out for one of the EV's everyone's and their dog is on about, I can easily buy a new Tesla cash but I can't see the logic as we also get our milk at nearest the petrol station (no such luxuries as shops anywhere near).

 

 

[Ozzay]

Good news.

Thanks to the sound advice from the forum and the positive one in that the car should be repaired.

Got the intake manifold gasket seal replaced, alignment and balancing done for £278.00. 

WALAAAA. No more rough idle. Perfect idle now. 

There were two other issues the mechanic found. 

One which was a spark plug connector which was loose which he sorted (broken connector).

This other connection was loose with something green on top which was behind the spark plug connector don't know what that was.

I don't know which of these fixed the idle I will have to speak to him since I got the car and he was not around.

Car drives much much better. Smoother and pulls better. Much less vibration now. Slight vibration still there but forgivable (steering). 

Caliper replacement still not done (could cause vibration). So for REAR Drivers side full caliper and sliding pin kit is needed I have vented discs need to buy the right one.

The passenger rear sliding pins are seized fortunately I already have a kit to replace them with.

Does anyone recommend a aftermarket one or shall I go for original.

 

 

 

 

[Ozzay]

On 11/23/2022 at 7:17 PM, is200 Newbie said:

Can't you look at the rear calipers yourself - arguably the easier caliper between front and rear to service - look to see if they have seized and if they are not too far gone then you can free them, grease and put them back together - no need to remove them from the brake system on the car to do that.

Use the correct grease on them, red rubber grease from Toyota which can (the last time i bought it) be bought from Toyota for £10 (toothpaste sized tube) or eBay.

Doing the rear brakes, even if it takes an hour or so and you get them greased etc will save you almost £500 and it will give you an idea on how to maintain them in the future as they do need regular maintenance (greasing)

Also - if you look on eBay then you can source two new genuine rear calipers for around £244 - you can also source non OEM ones for around £60 each and as the garage will not fit anything other than OEM then have another garage fit these ...

I would if I had my own front drive/garage but not on the road. I can be very clumsy and in case something happens I don't want to leave things there. 

I do DIY stuff normally but with the car because I will be learning I know it will take me quite a while.

[Ozzay]

On 11/22/2022 at 4:52 PM, Spock66 said:

I think the only one of these that may fix the rough idle would be the intake manifold gasket if there is a vacuum leak, has your mechanic confirmed this? A properly equipped garage would have a smoke machine for testing this.

I don't see any point in forking out for brand new calipers until the engine issue is resolved.

Took your advice on doing that first bit.

[H3XME]

3 minutes ago, Ozzay said:

Good news.

Thanks to the sound advice from the forum and the positive one in that the car should be repaired.

Got the intake manifold gasket seal replaced, alignment and balancing done for £278.00. 

WALAAAA. No more rough idle. Perfect idle now. 

There were two other issues the mechanic found. 

One which was a spark plug connector which was loose which he sorted (broken connector).

This other connection was loose with something green on top which was behind the spark plug connector don't know what that was.

I don't know which of these fixed the idle I will have to speak to him since I got the car and he was not around.

Car drives much much better. Smoother and pulls better. Much less vibration now. Slight vibration still there but forgivable. 

Caliper replacement still not done. So for REAR Drivers side full caliper and sliding pin kit is needed I have vented discs need to buy the right one.

The passenger rear sliding pins are seized fortunately I already have a kit to replace them with.

Does anyone recommend a aftermarket one or shall I go for original.

Glad it’s finally sorted. 
here you go, OE rear caliper £78 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174841273054

[Ozzay]

2 minutes ago, H3XME said:

Glad it’s finally sorted. 
here you go, OE rear caliper £78 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174841273054

Do you know what the caliper number is? 

One seller said he needs to know the caliper number stamped on the current on in the car. Was not sure. 

Discs are vented will these fit? I asked the seller if it comes with the sliding pin kit as well.

In your opinion are these going to last?

[H3XME]

29 minutes ago, Ozzay said:

Do you know what the caliper number is? 

One seller said he needs to know the caliper number stamped on the current on in the car. Was not sure. 

Discs are vented will these fit? I asked the seller if it comes with the sliding pin kit as well.

In your opinion are these going to last?

I don't know the caliper number - hard to tell whether these eBay ones will fit the right size discs (310mm). The solids are 291mm IIRC.

Anyway, these ones are for the bigger, vented discs https://www.autodoc.co.uk/nty/16550255

[Ozzay]

35 minutes ago, H3XME said:

I don't know the caliper number - hard to tell whether these eBay ones will fit the right size discs (310mm). The solids are 291mm IIRC.

Anyway, these ones are for the bigger, vented discs https://www.autodoc.co.uk/nty/16550255

That one does not come with a sliding kit.

These are my brake discs: https://www.halfords.com/car-parts?cgid=297006&pid=104821188&_gl=1*gj11j1*_up*MQ..&gclid=CjwKCAiAv9ucBhBXEiwA6N8nYNA56DdsFRx5nKxCD0c1uJBhxBlqytBRtJr5hET_vbGjKIXcAUo1ZxoC24wQAvD_BwE

I need rear drivers side with sliding kit not sure if the carrier is needed as well. I have found this one because I can't find the originals for these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274391312519?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20201210111314%26meid%3Dcc8c4e5c20a04229a8dc2b2d46b31445%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D274312006736%26itm%3D274391312519%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv11WebTrimmedV3MskuAspectsV202110NoVariantSeedKnnRecallV1%26brand%3DQuality&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A274391312519cc8c4e5c20a04229a8dc2b2d46b31445|enc%3AAQAHAAABIMFr2e4EmAnM%2ByHZkULYKDIJ4L66fOjNL0iupgt%2BzO1%2F3AE1t3mNirUYB96NktMCicMagiS6mbeTl0xquGODv9mMqbFiOENC3kBi5ShUKeZxm8S%2FskcU69J1QslippYj8m1R1K4Cw2VdPB0Y%2Fwc2zZTBUfaf3c9MRwG1GeFwNtPxesPLyDul3nPKs6lsBgfVaEOG1U6yHy0fDGPa1rM%2BSqhVf3DPa7zVeIdYZ%2FGUuSXzVwwZYULFeESNk8CYhVI3OPpUMVvDxfw1q6e6cozOn%2BQ6CizeDoT6IuQNm9KuB8eOm%2BNffXneRCB1WngHSr5S%2F5eUM%2FDNr%2BrU0rVfyTKhgkSsJMsRyABIc2AdfSc66xTEDfdN9Bib6ou%2FvGckEcEA4g%3D%3D|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2047675